Trump tells GOP to take it or leave it on ObamaCare repeal [vote Friday]

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead

To hell with what Trump wants.  The issue is what the American people want, and 83% don't want this garbage bill.

Look on the bright side--- we're probably going to end up with single payer at some point, so you really have something to look forward to!

Don't be an ass.  I don't want single payer.  I want to fix the ACA,  get the IRS out of the business of harassing employers with mandates,  encourage consumerism,  price transparency,  and choice in the marketplace.   

The leadership's bill is a strong step in the right direction,  and Trump wants a vote.   I want a unified GOP to give him a bill.    There remains the Senate to improve things,  but the cards are on the table.   Up or down,  keep ObamaCare or fix it.     

[HoustonSam]

I want to fix the ACA

   Up or down,  keep ObamaCare or fix it.   

Not just "No", "Hell No".  The promise was to repeal it.

Tinkering with it on the promise that we'll repeal it next time in two additional steps doesn't cut it.

[ABX]

Remember who is a proponent of single payer and doesn't want full repeal.

[Jazzhead]

Not just "No", "Hell No".  The promise was to repeal it.

Tinkering with it on the promise that we'll repeal it next time in two additional steps doesn't cut it.

Be careful what you wish for.  Conservatives are at grave risk of falling into a trap.   

[corbe]

@Jazzhead

To hell with what Trump wants.  The issue is what the American people want, and 83% don't want this garbage bill.

Look on the bright side--- we're probably going to end up with single payer at some point, so you really have something to look forward to!

   This is one of those moments where I realize WHY I don't take you on @CatherineofAragon you can be Brutal.

    I love it.

[Hoodat]

Don't be an ass.  I don't want single payer.  I want to fix the ACA,  get the IRS out of the business of harassing employers with mandates

Yet you continue to support the mandates against individuals.  Go figure.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I'm not sure what folks expect Trump to do.  You've got the Freedom Caucus that won't vote for anything less than (close to) full repeal, including repeal of the 26 year old addendum and guaranteed issue.  Then there's another group of moderates who won't vote for anything that doesn't retain both.  And each group is insisting that it won't settle for anything less.  The Senate is even worse.

Regardless of what Trump says, a bill isn't going to make it to his desk unless enough members of Congress will compromise, and not enough are willing to do that yet.  So, Obamacare will stay in place.  The exchanges will eventually crumble, although the 26 year old provision will remain in effect, along with guaranteed issue and the Medicaid expansion.  Trump isn't as much making a threat as just stating reality.  And if there is no willingness to compromise within Congress itself, he might as well move on to other things that have a chance of passing.

As goofy as he is in a lot of respects, he's handling this like an experienced negotiator.  If there is no middle ground that is acceptable to both sides, then you're wasting your time negotiating.  If it's litigation, that's when you go to trial.  If it's a business deal, that's when you stand up, walk away from the table, and move on to something else.  Maybe one side or the other will soften its position over time, but if not, it's a dead issue.

Obamacare, with all its flaws, will remain.  Not a threat -- just reality.

[Bigun]

I'm not sure what folks expect Trump to do.  You've got the Freedom Caucus that won't vote for anything less than (close to) full repeal, including repeal of the 26 year old addendum and guaranteed issue.  Then there's another group of moderates who won't vote for anything that doesn't retain both.  And each group is insisting that it won't settle for anything less.  The Senate is even worse.

Regardless of what Trump says, a bill isn't going to make it to his desk unless there is a compromise, and nobody is willing to do that.  So, Obamacare will stay in place.  The exchanges will eventually crumble, although the 26 year old provision will remain in effect, along with guaranteed issue and the Medicaid expansion.  Trump isn't as much making a threat as just stating reality.  And if there is no willingness to compromise, he might as well move on to other things that have a chance of passing.

As goofy as he is in a lot of respects, he's handling this like an experienced negotiator.  If there is no middle ground that is acceptable to both sides, then your wasting your time negotiating.  If it's litigation, that's when you go to trial.  If it's a business deal, that's when you walk away and move on to something else.  Maybe one side or the other will soften its position over time, but if not, it's a dead issue.

Obamacare, with all its flaws, will remain.  Not a threat -- just reality.

I can guarantee you that will NOT happen!  A bill WILL be put on the presidents desk within the next couple of months and he will either sign it or not!

[Maj. Bill Martin]

and Congress can start a real repeal effort without his crappy input

The problem is not that Trump won't agree to what Congress wants.  The problem is that Republicans in Congress themselves cannot agree on a bill to send to Trump.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I can guarantee you that will NOT happen!  A bill WILL be put on the presidents desk within the next couple of months and he will either sign it or not!

Oh, I'm sure he'd sign any bill that makes it to his desk.  But exactly what do you think that bill is going to look like?  You've got the Freedom Caucus insisting on virtually a full repeal, and RINOs in the House and Senate who will not support that.   And either group has enough votes to block a bill.

So which group do you expect to give up its position, and why would they do that?

[Bigun]

Oh, I'm sure he'd sign any bill that makes it to his desk.  But exactly what do you think that bill is going to look like?  You've got the Freedom Caucus insisting on virtually a full repeal, and RINOs in the House and Senate who will not support that.   And either group has enough votes to block a bill.

So which group do you expect to give up its position, and why would they do that?

I have no idea what it will look like but there WILL be a bill and it will be called the repeal of Obamacare whether or not that is in fact what the bill does.

There is no limit to inside the beltway sophistry!

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I have no idea what it will look like but there WILL be a bill and it will be called the repeal of Obamacare whether or not that is in fact what the bill does.

There is no limit to inside the beltway sophistry!

At some point, they'll have to pass something because the exchanges will collapse.  But that may not happen until collapse is much more imminent, which is why it probably makes sense for Trump to wash his hands of it now, and just wait for Congress to figure out on it's own what it is going to do.

I'm honestly amazed that so many folks here are angry at Trump.  It's been reported in multiple places that nobody can figure out a version of a bill that can get a majority in either the House or Senate, much less both.  Honestly, washing his hands of the whole thing is actually the smartest thing he can do, because it will force Congress to realize that nobody else is going to save it from its own inability to gather majority support behind a bill.

[Jazzhead]

I'm not sure what folks expect Trump to do.  You've got the Freedom Caucus that won't vote for anything less than (close to) full repeal, including repeal of the 26 year old addendum and guaranteed issue.  Then there's another group of moderates who won't vote for anything that doesn't retain both.  And each group is insisting that it won't settle for anything less.  The Senate is even worse.

Regardless of what Trump says, a bill isn't going to make it to his desk unless enough members of Congress will compromise, and not enough are willing to do that.  So, Obamacare will stay in place.  The exchanges will eventually crumble, although the 26 year old provision will remain in effect, along with guaranteed issue and the Medicaid expansion.  Trump isn't as much making a threat as just stating reality.  And if there is no willingness to compromise within Congress itself, he might as well move on to other things that have a chance of passing.

As goofy as he is in a lot of respects, he's handling this like an experienced negotiator.  If there is no middle ground that is acceptable to both sides, then you're wasting your time negotiating.  If it's litigation, that's when you go to trial.  If it's a business deal, that's when you stand up, walk away from the table, and move on to something else.  Maybe one side or the other will soften its position over time, but if not, it's a dead issue.

Obamacare, with all its flaws, will remain.  Not a threat -- just reality.

Boffo post!

[corbe]

   

@Maj. Bill Martin

   Trump campaigned on Repeal at first, then he added Replace halfway through it, both bills (separate) were in the House ready to go, then 2 weeks after the inauguration, Ryan starts changing everything, Bannon, Reince, lobbyist influence, perhaps?

   Am I oversimplifying or imaging things?

   I place the majority of the blame on the new, rightfully so stumbling Administration and I dislike Ryan as much as Trump, who I have been trying to give the benefit of the doubt to.

[Bigun]

Paul Ryan is where winning goes to die.

[Smokin Joe]

Oh, I'm sure he'd sign any bill that makes it to his desk.  But exactly what do you think that bill is going to look like?  You've got the Freedom Caucus insisting on virtually a full repeal, and RINOs in the House and Senate who will not support that.   And either group has enough votes to block a bill.

So which group do you expect to give up its position, and why would they do that?

If the RINOs could vote for repeal when they knew it wouldn't make it across the Resolute Desk, how come they're so impaired now?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

   

@Maj. Bill Martin

   Trump campaigned on Repeal at first, then he added Replace halfway through it, both bills (separate) were in the House ready to go, then 2 weeks after the inauguration, Ryan starts changing everything, Bannon, Reince, lobbyist influence, perhaps?

   Am I oversimplifying or imaging things?

   

Oversimplifying.  The reality is that there are sufficient RINO's who are unwilling to vote for a full repeal to kill any such bill.  You've got four GOP Senators who already announced that they will vote for no such things, and perhaps enough GOP House members to do that same when you include those who won't vote for a House bill that can't pass the Senate.  The reason Trump, Ryan, and McConnell backed off full repeal was because they learned of that opposition.

You've also got some Republicans whose attitude is "I won't vote for anything less than a full repeal, and will just let Obamacare collapse under its own weight."  But taken literally, "letting Obamacare collapse under it's own weight" actually means leaving it in place.  So you've got members of Congress all over the map, with no single strategy/bill able to gain majority support.

[endicom]

If the RINOs could vote for repeal when they knew it wouldn't make it across the Resolute Desk, how come they're so impaired now?

I think you gave the reason. Knowing Obama would veto made any vote a throwaway.

[Smokin Joe]

I think you gave the reason. Knowing Obama would veto made any vote a throwaway.

Yep. Now the scam goes away, and the primary challengers can start making their plans.

[Free Vulcan]

The problem is this bill has got it all bass ackwards. They need to rewrite it.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I think you gave the reason. Knowing Obama would veto made any vote a throwaway.

Exactly.  You've got too many squishy moderates unwilling to eliminate certain aspects of Obamacare.  They were willing to cast symbolic votes for full repeal while making vague promises to their constituents that they'd ensure that any replacement kept the "good parts".  But now that it comes time to actually get specific, they won't support a full repeal without either 1) keeping the parts of ObamaCare they like, or 2) "replacing" Obamacare with something else that contains what they see as the "good parts."   And the problem is the stuff they insist on keeping is the exact same stuff the Freedom Caucus insists on eliminating.

Hence, there is currently no bill that could pass both Houses and make it to Trump's desk for signature.   And one won't ever get there unless either or both of the Freedom Caucus or RINO's become willing to compromise sufficiently.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The problem is this bill has got it all bass ackwards. They need to rewrite it.

You've go the Freedom Caucus insisting on 1) elimination of the 26 year old addendum, 2) elimination of guaranteed issue, and 3) phase-out of the federally subsidized Medicaid expansion.  You've got the RINO's insisting on 1) keeping the 26 year old addendum, 2) keeping guaranteed issue, and 3) maintaining the federal Medicaid expansion subsidy.

How do you rewrite the bill to satisfy those two irreconcilable views?

[Frank Cannon]

Trump is not going to get blamed for this, the GOP will be.  Conservatives will be.  Trump's message,  the core of his populist appeal, is that he'll knock heads to get things done.  That's what he's doing.   And if the "Freedom Caucus" does its vainglorious thing,  then Trump will just say sod it and move on.   

The GOP and Donald Trump is a marriage of convenience.   If conservative nihilists give Trump shit,  he'll screw them and I for one won't blame him a bit. 

The damn Freedom Caucus ought to understand that Trump wants results not posturing.

Bullshit. This was a big part of his campaign. Getting rid of Obamacare. He is the head of the GOP whether the dumb son of a b itch knows it or not. He is the face of the party. 95% of the House GOP'ers will be reelected because people back home like them no matter what Donny says. You don't believe that, just look at what a horses ass Donny looked like when Ryan handily won his last Primary against that Trump stooge. The House may have written this piece of garbage, but the buck stops at the WH. They are all in on this. If he doesn't come through he is going to lose the slim support he has from his followers now.

Boehner tried to eff with the Freedom Caucus. He is now drinking himself to death on some golf course as a has been loser. Trump will be joining him soon if he does the same. I'll also add that the rest of his agenda will be totally shut down as well. It will be 4 years of a lame ass duck wandering around Mar a Lago looking for validation from the wait staff.

[Emjay]

I'm not sure what folks expect Trump to do.  You've got the Freedom Caucus that won't vote for anything less than (close to) full repeal, including repeal of the 26 year old addendum and guaranteed issue.  Then there's another group of moderates who won't vote for anything that doesn't retain both.  And each group is insisting that it won't settle for anything less.  The Senate is even worse.

Regardless of what Trump says, a bill isn't going to make it to his desk unless enough members of Congress will compromise, and not enough are willing to do that yet.  So, Obamacare will stay in place.  The exchanges will eventually crumble, although the 26 year old provision will remain in effect, along with guaranteed issue and the Medicaid expansion.  Trump isn't as much making a threat as just stating reality.  And if there is no willingness to compromise within Congress itself, he might as well move on to other things that have a chance of passing.

As goofy as he is in a lot of respects, he's handling this like an experienced negotiator.  If there is no middle ground that is acceptable to both sides, then you're wasting your time negotiating.  If it's litigation, that's when you go to trial.  If it's a business deal, that's when you stand up, walk away from the table, and move on to something else.  Maybe one side or the other will soften its position over time, but if not, it's a dead issue.

Obamacare, with all its flaws, will remain.  Not a threat -- just reality.

You sound too dang convincing for comfort.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I'm not sure what folks expect Trump to do.  You've got the Freedom Caucus that won't vote for anything less than (close to) full repeal, including repeal of the 26 year old addendum and guaranteed issue.  Then there's another group of moderates who won't vote for anything that doesn't retain both.  And each group is insisting that it won't settle for anything less.  The Senate is even worse.

Regardless of what Trump says, a bill isn't going to make it to his desk unless enough members of Congress will compromise, and not enough are willing to do that yet.  So, Obamacare will stay in place.  The exchanges will eventually crumble, although the 26 year old provision will remain in effect, along with guaranteed issue and the Medicaid expansion.  Trump isn't as much making a threat as just stating reality.  And if there is no willingness to compromise within Congress itself, he might as well move on to other things that have a chance of passing.

As goofy as he is in a lot of respects, he's handling this like an experienced negotiator.  If there is no middle ground that is acceptable to both sides, then you're wasting your time negotiating.  If it's litigation, that's when you go to trial.  If it's a business deal, that's when you stand up, walk away from the table, and move on to something else.  Maybe one side or the other will soften its position over time, but if not, it's a dead issue.

Obamacare, with all its flaws, will remain.  Not a threat -- just reality.

Compromise is a dirty word to the modern GOP. Not just it's politicians, but to the extremely vocal adherents who call themselves "conservatives". And yet, nothing but nothing will happen without some sort of compromise.