Author Topic: BREAKING>>>>Nunes: Intel community surveiled Trump transition officials  (Read 20699 times)

0 Members and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,660
2nd Division Vet?  For a long time before the zotting began, he was the only one to post anything resembling anti-Trump articles.  I wondered why Jim tolerated him ... suspected big monthly donor or something.  I think he's still there.

I will say that FR is the best forum ever in the user-friendly sense.


2nd Division Vet is still there and posts a LOT of articles.   He is either a heavy donor,  or he is just regarded as an asset for all the controversy he generates.   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,660
Is this something like plausible deniability?


Yup.
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Online corbe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39,641

2nd Division Vet is still there and posts a LOT of articles.   He is either a heavy donor,  or he is just regarded as an asset for all the controversy he generates.   

   Unlike here, where both sides are posted and discussed, he (2DV), doesn't post stuff against the established protocol, anymore I always liked him, a fellow Texan, if I'm not mistaken.

 @DiogenesLamp
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Victoria33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,457
  • Gender: Female

2nd Division Vet is still there and posts a LOT of articles.   He is either a heavy donor,  or he is just regarded as an asset for all the controversy he generates.
@DiogenesLamp

He exists on military disability.

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,274
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
@DiogenesLamp

He exists on military disability.

Right. I don't think he is a big donor. I remember a thread or two about him lamenting his (apparent) poverty.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,660
Getting back to the point of this thread....


Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source says

Quote
Republican congressional investigators expect a potential “smoking gun” establishing that the Obama administration spied on the Trump transition team, and possibly the president-elect himself, will be produced to the House Intelligence Committee this week, a source told Fox News.

Classified intelligence showing incidental collection of Trump team communications, purportedly seen by committee Chairman Devin Nunes, R-Calif., and described by him in vague terms at a bombshell Wednesday afternoon news conference, came from multiple sources, Capitol Hill sources told Fox News. The intelligence corroborated information about surveillance of the Trump team that was known to Nunes, sources said, even before President Trump accused his predecessor of having wiretappedhim in a series of now-infamous tweets posted on March 4.

The intelligence is said to leave no doubt the Obama administration, in its closing days, was using the cover of legitimate surveillance on foreign targets to spy on President-elect Trump, according to sources.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/23/potential-smoking-gun-showing-obama-administration-spied-on-trump-team-source-says.html
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,274
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
At the end of the day does anything change?
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,660
Quote
Many words are dead metaphors, and “wiretapped” may be one, whether it’s in quotes or not. Who cares if there were “wires” that were “tapped”? It’s like looking for eaves when someone is said to be eavesdropping. I think the stress on the word “wiretapped” is part of an effort to say that some other party was targeted — some foreign official was listened in on — and that caused the overhearing of some Trump-associated persons. There was a wiretap, but the wires tapped (metaphorically) were not a Trump associate’s.


https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/260682/#respond
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,274
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,106

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/260682/#respond

Wiretap means to surveil electronic communications. It is just an older term from when it was a more mechanical process to achieve. So in short the meaning is the same but the technology has changed. So I'm agreeing with you.

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,274
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Being how I am inclined to follow that the spooks go by the "guilty until proven innocent" theory I could easily think that the "other than Trump-associated persons" were the incidentals here.

Meaning they were listening to Trump associates and the other parties were incidental, but they spin it the other way.

Gotta fit the narrative and all.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 54,289
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Isn't it interesting that there were no people from the Hillary campaign who were incidentally caught up in this type of surveillance activity and, if there were, NONE of their names were unmasked?

Just asking?  Seems strange to me that th1se kind of thing only happens to republicans given that it is "incidental"!
   
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,274
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Isn't it interesting that there were no people from the Hillary campaign who were incidentally caught up in this type of surveillance activity and, if there were, NONE of their names were unmasked?

Just asking?  Seems strange to me that th1se kind of thing only happens to republicans given that it is "incidental"!
   

What would be the point? EVERYONE KNOWS they are all criminals.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 60,555
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Isn't it interesting that there were no people from the Hillary campaign who were incidentally caught up in this type of surveillance activity and, if there were, NONE of their names were unmasked?

Just asking?  Seems strange to me that th1se kind of thing only happens to republicans given that it is "incidental"!
   
Wait... You expected the Democrats to investigate ANY of the criminal activities associated with their own people?  :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DiogenesLamp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,660
Did Obama Surveil Trump? Sure Looks That Way





Quote
Nunes, speaking Wednesday and citing only "sources," was careful to note that the surveillance of Trump aides appeared to be both legal and "incidental" — that is, not part of a directed spying operation on Trump.

Of course, that appears to be literally true. But it's also irrelevant. Democrats and the media keep mentioning the word "incidental" as if it exonerates what now appears to be a domestic spying operation against Trump directed from the Obama White House.

"Incidental" doesn't mean unintentional. Take as an example the leaks of former Trump National Security Adviser Michael Flynn's conversations in late December with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak. Those talks have been treated as sinister, with the Washington Post even suggesting that they were a violation of the Logan Act, a possible serious crime.

Quote

But U.S. intelligence gatherers could quite easily get an "incidental" trove of material on Flynn, simply by getting a surveillance warrant on someone they knew he was likely to talk to. Presto! The information on Flynn talking to the target becomes "incidental," rather than targeted. Still, the intent was clear.


The fact is, as Nunes revealed, this appears to be a pattern of surveillance put in place by the Obama administration and possibly officials in the FBI, CIA or National Security Agency to elude any appearance of a domestic spying operation on a political foe, which would be a serious crime.



http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/did-obama-surveil-trump-sure-looks-that-way/
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 01:01:20 pm by DiogenesLamp »
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 54,289
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Wait... You expected the Democrats to investigate ANY of the criminal activities associated with their own people?  :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:

@Smokin Joe

Actually my comment was targeting the supposed "incidental" aspect of all this!  As in if it truly were "incidental" would it be only republicans caught up in it?   There isn't a damned thing "incidental" about any of it!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
@Smokin Joe

Actually my comment was targeting the supposed "incidental" aspect of all this!  As in if it truly were "incidental" would it be only republicans caught up in it?   There isn't a damned thing "incidental" about any of it!

It's entirely possible that Democrats were caught up in the "incidental" part of it, as the term is used.

The problem is not the collection of the information -- that happens all the time.  The problem is that the identities of Trump's team were apparently not properly "masked" as required by law.  The identities of Democrats caught in the same web may or may not have been "masked," we don't know.

But if there was in fact a systematic failure to "mask" specific people -- members of Trump's team -- then that's a serious problem.  Of course, we already know that the Obama administration had a record of such things -- the IRS scandal being another glaring example.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 60,555
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
@Smokin Joe

Actually my comment was targeting the supposed "incidental" aspect of all this!  As in if it truly were "incidental" would it be only republicans caught up in it?   There isn't a damned thing "incidental" about any of it!
We had an expression when we were kids..."accidentally on purpose". No, this wasn't some serendipitous discovery, but a targeted information gathering operation aimed specifically at Trump's people. Interesting how the debate has shifted, though, because if anything had been found that was actionable, that would be all over the front pages.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 54,289
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
We had an expression when we were kids..."accidentally on purpose". No, this wasn't some serendipitous discovery, but a targeted information gathering operation aimed specifically at Trump's people. Interesting how the debate has shifted, though, because if anything had been found that was actionable, that would be all over the front pages.

@Smokin Joe

I think you mean to say "actionable against a Republican".  Democraps are immune!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 81,920
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
@Smokin Joe

Actually my comment was targeting the supposed "incidental" aspect of all this!  As in if it truly were "incidental" would it be only republicans caught up in it?   There isn't a damned thing "incidental" about any of it!

Yeah, it's kind of odd random chance always seems to favor the Rats these days. 

Used to be, when votes were recounted in elections, half the time the Dem gained, the other half the Rep gained, but now the Dems gain every time the votes are counted.  They'll recount the same election over and over until the Rat gets enough to win.  How come they're so confident they'll come out ahead?

Something very fishy about that.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 81,920
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
@Smokin Joe

I think you mean to say "actionable against a Republican".  Democraps are immune!

Everyboduy knows it's because the Dems are always innocent of wrong doing.  Just ask 'em, they'll tell you!
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline XenaLee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,398
  • Gender: Female
  • Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Yeah, it's kind of odd random chance always seems to favor the Rats these days. 

Used to be, when votes were recounted in elections, half the time the Dem gained, the other half the Rep gained, but now the Dems gain every time the votes are counted.  They'll recount the same election over and over until the Rat gets enough to win.  How come they're so confident they'll come out ahead?

Something very fishy about that.


The ACORNs (still) do not fall far from the trees.  Or something esoteric like that...lol.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
We had an expression when we were kids..."accidentally on purpose". No, this wasn't some serendipitous discovery, but a targeted information gathering operation aimed specifically at Trump's people. Interesting how the debate has shifted, though, because if anything had been found that was actionable, that would be all over the front pages.

Again, I think we need to draw the distinction between the incidental collection, and what happened next.  If Nunes is to be believed, the collection itself is legal.  Which among other things means that Trump's people really were in contact with people who were under surveillance.  Though it's highly unlikely that they were not the only ones.

It's what may have happened next that's the real problem: the intel people failed to "mask" at least some of those they should have.  That's bad enough.  But if they selectively failed to mask, then that's a much bigger deal.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 02:36:31 pm by r9etb »

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 54,289
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Yeah, it's kind of odd random chance always seems to favor the Rats these days. 

Used to be, when votes were recounted in elections, half the time the Dem gained, the other half the Rep gained, but now the Dems gain every time the votes are counted.  They'll recount the same election over and over until the Rat gets enough to win.  How come they're so confident they'll come out ahead?

Something very fishy about that.

@Cyber Liberty

I have been preaching for years that the entrenched unelected GS bureaucracy in Washington is the biggest threat we face! It is not elected democrats alone!
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 02:38:22 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 60,555
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Everyboduy knows it's because the Dems are always innocent of wrong doing.  Just ask 'em, they'll tell you!
It is the dindu party. dindu nuffin.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis