Fox News suspends Judge Andrew Napolitano over British spying claim: Report

[DB]

Or when the media uses their monstrous power of lying to the American people and broadcasting incorrect information to them because they have all that massive communications infrastructure that allows them to constantly spread their lies and agenda.   

They said the exact same thing about Reagan;  that he said things without thinking it through.   They said Bush was foolish in making his "read my lips,  no new taxes"  pledge.   They said Gingrich shut down the government because he hates poor people. 


Are there still some of you out there that does not understand how this massive Democrat propaganda system operates?

I voted for Reagan. There's no comparison between the two men. Trump's wire tap claim was a self inflicted wound among others. Let's say Trump had knowledge that he was wire tapped, play poker, quietly collect the evidence and go after the perpetrators using the FBI and expose it when they're caught. Shut the hell up and go for the kill. Laying out all your cards before they're even dealt is the kiss of death - especially if your bluffing. The left is looking for any ammo they can find, don't give it to them on a silver platter. It isn't that complicated.

I want Trump to succeed in making things better. I just don't believe he has the character to do it. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck and I'm not going to lie to myself. I'd be happy if he proved me wrong.

[DB]

So we already know they will do crime,   we just don't believe they will do the crime of wire tapping Trump and his associate's phones?   Because that would be unethical or something?

Fake but accurate is not the standard to live by. It is a shortcut that will take you down sooner or later. The mother of all f'ups is assuming things not in evidence. Collect the evidence and make the case. And if you really want to make the case, collect the evidence quietly and then go for the kill in public once you have it and can lay it out.

[DiogenesLamp]

I voted for Reagan. There's no comparison between the two men. Trump's wire tap claim was a self inflicted wound among others. Let's say Trump had knowledge that he was wire tapped, play poker, quietly collect the evidence and go after the perpetrators using the FBI and expose it when they're caught. Shut the hell up and go for the kill. Laying out all your cards before they're even dealt is the kiss of death - especially if your bluffing. The left is looking for any ammo they can find, don't give it to them on a silver platter. It isn't that complicated.

This is Monday morning quarterbacking.   I have no doubt that some piece of information was given to Trump to convince him that he had been "wiretapped",   and I think he expressed genuine outrage at what this signified.   

I also think it is in the nature of the evidence that he can't reveal what it was,  and therefore has nothing which he can present to support his claim.   

This does not make his claim false,  nor does it make it a self inflicted wound.   It makes it another melee with the lying liberal media propaganda corps regarding what is the actual truth.   


What makes it any sort of wound at all is the fact that people will carry the media's water and keep repeating that this has "damaged"  Trump.   Repeat something often enough and it becomes true,  and this is why the media does it,  and this is how the media works.   


It is Goebbels all the way down.   

I want Trump to succeed in making things better. I just don't believe he has the character to do it. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck and I'm not going to lie to myself. I'd be happy if he proved me wrong.

So tell me,  did George HW Bush cause himself a "self inflicted wound"  when he made his "read my lips,  no new taxes!"  pledge?   


The media said so.  They said it was completely unreasonable for a man to stop increases in taxes.  They said that was just idiocy,  and an intelligent man should know better than to think that taxes should not always inevitably increase year after year.   


Was that a self inflicted wound by George HW Bush,  or just another New York Liberal media lie?   

[DB]

So we already know they will do crime,   we just don't believe they will do the crime of wire tapping Trump and his associate's phones?   Because that would be unethical or something?

I'm just going to add, I'm an engineer. I build things that must work. Assuming things not otherwise known as fact is virtually a guaranteed path to failure. Not assuming things involves more work. Where things can't be immediately determined either test it or come up with a different plan not based on assumptions. And if you can't do either, then go forward with the understanding that failure is definite a possibility and you better be in a position to absorb it.

[DiogenesLamp]

Fake but accurate is not the standard to live by. It is a shortcut that will take you down sooner or later. The mother of all f'ups is assuming things not in evidence. Collect the evidence and make the case. And if you really want to make the case, collect the evidence quietly and then go for the kill in public once you have it and can lay it out.

The media do not need any evidence.  (Hands up!  Don't shoot!)  They simply repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat,  repeat.   I can show you countless examples of how the media damaged Republicans and the nation by constantly repeating unsubstantiated claims,   but I would have thought that a conservative politics junkie would already be aware of such examples,   and therefore be less prone to giving the media narrative the benefit of the doubt. 


Something convinced Trump that he was being surveilled.  What possible reason could he have for picking this confrontation other than a realization that it actually happened?   


What he has said has the ring of truth to it.  What the media says does not.   They are covering for the "Deep State"  Obama operatives,  and that is exactly what it sounds like they are doing to my ears. 

[DB]

This is Monday morning quarterbacking.   I have no doubt that some piece of information was given to Trump to convince him that he had been "wiretapped",   and I think he expressed genuine outrage at what this signified.   

I also think it is in the nature of the evidence that he can't reveal what it was,  and therefore has nothing which he can present to support his claim.   

This does not make his claim false,  nor does it make it a self inflicted wound.   It makes it another melee with the lying liberal media propaganda corps regarding what is the actual truth.   


What makes it any sort of wound at all is the fact that people will carry the media's water and keep repeating that this has "damaged"  Trump.   Repeat something often enough and it becomes true,  and this is why the media does it,  and this is how the media works.   


It is Goebbels all the way down.   


So tell me,  did George HW Bush cause himself a "self inflicted wound"  when he made his "read my lips,  no new taxes!"  pledge?   


The media said so.  They said it was completely unreasonable for a man to stop increases in taxes.  They said that was just idiocy,  and an intelligent man should know better than to think that taxes should not always inevitably increase year after year.   


Was that a self inflicted wound by George HW Bush,  or just another New York Liberal media lie?

Come on. Self control to keep your mouth shut isn't anything more than what it is. Regarding GHWB, yes, it was a self inflicted wound. That should be self evident. The Democrats set him up and he fell for it. You can't have it both ways.

The media is poison. That's a given. Don't help them by saying stupid stuff that is unnecessary and then doubling down on it. The media loves that, more blood for longer.

I've got to go to bed...

[DiogenesLamp]

I'm just going to add, I'm an engineer. I build things that must work. Assuming things not otherwise known as fact is virtually a guaranteed path to failure. Not assuming things involves more work. Where things can't be immediately determined either test it or come up with a different plan not based on assumptions. And if you can't do either, then go forward with the understanding that failure is definite a possibility and you better be in a position to absorb it.

Engineering operates in the real world.  Politics operates in a virtual world.  "Truth"  and Truth are interchangeable in the world of politics,  though they are not in the world of Engineering.   Your perspective on how to grasp the politics of it is actually injured by your engineering experience.   

The rules are very different,  and real world experience serves you badly in this fake world of politics.   


What is "True"  is whatever you can get the public to believe in sufficient numbers.   What is True,  doesn't matter so long as people don't learn of it. 


Modern politics is more or less a con game.

[DB]

The media do not need any evidence.  (Hands up!  Don't shoot!)  They simply repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat,  repeat.   I can show you countless examples of how the media damaged Republicans and the nation by constantly repeating unsubstantiated claims,   but I would have thought that a conservative politics junkie would already be aware of such examples,   and therefore be less prone to giving the media narrative the benefit of the doubt. 


Something convinced Trump that he was being surveilled.  What possible reason could he have for picking this confrontation other than a realization that it actually happened?   


What he has said has the ring of truth to it.  What the media says does not.   They are covering for the "Deep State"  Obama operatives,  and that is exactly what it sounds like they are doing to my ears.

Where's Trump's evidence? Are you saying neither needs evidence? Just say whatever to serves your purposes at the moment? Play by their unethical rules? Again you can't have it both ways. You can't say it's okay for Trump to say stuff without evidence but not for others. Especially now. Trump IS president. He needs to live by a higher standard. His currency to get things done is truth and trust. You burn those and there's not much left short of executive orders.

[DB]

Engineering operates in the real world.  Politics operates in a virtual world.  "Truth"  and Truth are interchangeable in the world of politics,  though they are not in the world of Engineering.   Your perspective on how to grasp the politics of it is actually injured by your engineering experience.   

The rules are very different,  and real world experience serves you badly in this fake world of politics.   


What is "True"  is whatever you can get the public to believe in sufficient numbers.   What is True,  doesn't matter so long as people don't learn of it. 


Modern politics is more or less a con game.

That "virtual" world has very real world consequences. If all it is on all sides is a con game then there's no point in playing. Its a bit like nuclear war at that point. There are only losers.

[Chosen Daughter]

I voted for Reagan. There's no comparison between the two men. Trump's wire tap claim was a self inflicted wound among others. Let's say Trump had knowledge that he was wire tapped, play poker, quietly collect the evidence and go after the perpetrators using the FBI and expose it when they're caught. Shut the hell up and go for the kill. Laying out all your cards before they're even dealt is the kiss of death - especially if your bluffing. The left is looking for any ammo they can find, don't give it to them on a silver platter. It isn't that complicated.

I want Trump to succeed in making things better. I just don't believe he has the character to do it. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck and I'm not going to lie to myself. I'd be happy if he proved me wrong.

Yes you would think.  I found it incredible that the first thing he did was announce what he thought on twitter.  It is about his mental state.  You see it over and over.  This is just going to be one of many.  He is paranoid.  He wants to build up his support with the poor me on twitter.  He still holds rallies because he requires praise.

[Sanguine]

Seems to me it was Levin who passed this nonsensical comment on to Breitbart who then forwarded it to Napolitano.
Anyone else see this timeline?

Which comment, @Rivergirl?

[SirLinksALot]

The Homosexual liberal?   Yeah,  he's the one telling the "truth."

OK, I'm not sure where we're getting the news that Shep is gay.... I know he was married ( now divorced ) once.

[DiogenesLamp]

Come on. Self control to keep your mouth shut isn't anything more than what it is.

Trump doesn't win by keeping his mouth shut,  he wins by confronting events and people head on.   That is his methodology,  and it appears to work for him.   

Regarding GHWB, yes, it was a self inflicted wound. That should be self evident. The Democrats set him up and he fell for it. You can't have it both ways.

You think that it is an unreasonable position to stop future tax increases?   Please elaborate on this concept,  because this is not the normal way most people of a conservative persuasion think.
Most of us believe that taxes are already too great,  and that not only should they never increase again,   they should be reduced.   

The media is poison. That's a given. Don't help them by saying stupid stuff that is unnecessary and then doubling down on it. The media loves that, more blood for longer.

Don't help them  by carrying their water in the repetition of false or unproven claims.  The topic of this thread is that Judge Napolitano got dismissed because the media lords are retaliating against him.   He claims to have three independent sources for his allegations,  so the question becomes,  is he lying or not? 


I personally don't believe he is lying,  so therefore my conclusions must be that his ouster is a retaliatory strike from the Deep State and their media allies.   


Do you think Judge Napolitano was lying about what his sources told him?   

[Rivergirl]

The lengths to which some will go to defend the indefensible is beyond me.   Seems that as long as it's DT, it's just fine.
All DT's troubles have been self inflicted.

[DiogenesLamp]

Where's Trump's evidence? Are you saying neither needs evidence?

I'm saying that in an conflict between the media and our representative in government,   we should give the benefit of the doubt to our guy before we ever give it to the media.   If neither side has evidence,  disbelieve the enemy side first.   

Just say whatever to serves your purposes at the moment? Play by their unethical rules?

The Facts of either side are not currently known.   In cases of ambiguity as to what constitutes the actual facts,  you side with your team.   When the facts become known,  you can stab your side in the back if it is demonstrated that your side is incorrect. 

Don't automatically stab your side just because the media makes accusations against them.   I figured we would have learned that at least since the "Macaca"  incident with Senator George Allen,  if not even earlier than that. 

Again you can't have it both ways. You can't say it's okay for Trump to say stuff without evidence but not for others.

Yes I can.   The others are known enemies who will deliberately lie and mislead the American people to get power.   I think the fact that Trump said it in the first place is a form of evidence.  The only competing theory is that he made it up out of the blue based on nothing,  and that strikes me as a ridiculous argument.   Something triggered this. 

Especially now. Trump IS president. He needs to live by a higher standard. His currency to get things done is truth and trust. You burn those and there's not much left short of executive orders.

The other side doesn't trust him at all.   Who's trust is going to be needed in this?  Our side?  Why does he have to go out of his way to gain our trust? 

Why can't our side just give him the benefit of the doubt?    Why does our side go along with the enemy side on these things?   

[Silver Pines]

OK, I'm not sure where we're getting the news that Shep is gay.... I know he was married ( now divorced ) once.

@SirLinksALot

I thought it was general knowledge.  Anyway, he is gay.  My niece went with some friends to the Kentucky Derby after she graduated college and they ran into Smith there.  He was with his boyfriend; and he invited my niece's group to come home with them for dinner.

[DiogenesLamp]

OK, I'm not sure where we're getting the news that Shep is gay.... I know he was married ( now divorced ) once.

Salon is a liberal site,  but what the heck.   

http://www.salon.com/2016/10/17/shepard-smith-comes-out-as-gay-says-roger-ailes-was-like-a-father-talks-about-the-future-of-fox-news/

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I'm saying that in an conflict between the media and our representative in government,   we should give the benefit of the doubt to our guy before we ever give it to the media.   If neither side has evidence,  disbelieve the enemy side first.

Blindly trusting either side is a recipe for disaster IMO.

[anubias]

OK, I'm not sure where we're getting the news that Shep is gay.... I know he was married ( now divorced ) once.

He came out of the closet last year.

[Rivergirl]

Excuse me Weird, but DT may be your guy but he's certainly not my guy.  Did you believe DT when he said Dr. Carson was a child molester?   Did you believe him when he quoted his favorite newsrag and suggested Raphael Cruz was involved with the JFK assassination.
DT has a long history of lying, slandering, and accusing others of non existent crimes.
You want ME to give HIM the benefit of the doubt.   Really?????????????

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Excuse me Weird, but DT may be your guy but he's certainly not my guy.

No.

Did you believe DT when he said Dr. Carson was a child molester?   

Nope.

Did you believe him when he quoted his favorite newsrag and suggested Raphael Cruz was involved with the JFK assassination.

Nope.

DT has a long history of lying, slandering, and accusing others of non existent crimes.

That he does.

You want ME to give HIM the benefit of the doubt.   Really?????????????

Nope. Lol. I think that was someone else?

[the_doc]

Seems to me it was Levin who passed this nonsensical comment on to Breitbart who then forwarded it to Napolitano.
Anyone else see this timeline?

I think you have gotten a garbled timeline, a garbled provenance for Napolitano's specific, narrow allegation about the Brits' involvement in doing the liberals' dirty work.  Napolitano said he got his info from three (I think) sources in the intelligence community.  Neither Breitbart nor Levin appear to have had anything whatsoever to do with Napolitano's shockingly specific claim.

(Levin has been accused by the MSM of influencing the Trump team with fake news, but Levin pointed out that he got his info about Obama's purported surveillance of Obama directly  from the Washington Post and New York Times.  Napolitano made his specific allegation about the Brits' involvement only after the MSM broke the larger story--which larger story Levin dutifully recounted--again, with nothing in it about the Brits.  [I realize that all of this is confusing, but please don't make the mistake of blaming Levin for anything in this scenario.  Please be especially wary of MSM attacks against Levin, including the MSM's own revisions of their timeline.]

P.S. Don't trust the Brits' either.  There have been many, many allegations over the years about the American government using the Brits for eavesdropping on American citizens on American soil.  We should expect them to deny this, because all intelligence services lie.  They will even lie under oath.  [Don't thank them; it's just what they do.]) 

[geronl]

Log Cabin Republicans will be PO'd

[the_doc]

The lengths to which some will go to defend the indefensible is beyond me.   Seems that as long as it's DT, it's just fine.
All DT's troubles have been self inflicted.

BTW, I am an unashamed NeverTrump guy.  I am glad I never voted for him.  But now that Trump is POTUS, we need to recognize that the MSM despises him way more than we do.  Levin is a former NeverTrumper who lost his nerve and endorsed Trump.  (We conservatives can't all be perfect--not even Levin.  But Levin is still about the straightest shooter we have.)

[Sanguine]

BTW, I am an unashamed NeverTrump guy.  I am glad I never voted for him.  But now that Trump is POTUS, we need to recognize that the MSM despises him way more than we do.  Levin is a former NeverTrumper who lost his nerve and endorsed Trump.  (We conservatives can't all be perfect--not even Levin.  But Levin is still about the straightest shooter we have.)

Point of fact: he only "lost his nerve" with regard to HRC being the alternative.