Author Topic: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?  (Read 6071 times)

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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #100 on: July 18, 2017, 01:12:28 pm »
Actually its not a regressive tax.  Its one of the few taxes where everyone pays at the same rate regardless of income.  One of the few fair taxes we have. 

No, it's regressive.   FICA is capped above the wage base - the rich don't pay in (for SS) after their wage incomes reach a certain amount.
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Offline driftdiver

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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #101 on: July 18, 2017, 01:16:31 pm »
No, it's regressive.   FICA is capped above the wage base - the rich don't pay in (for SS) after their wage incomes reach a certain amount.

@Jazzhead
A regressive tax is a tax that takes a larger percentage of income from low-income earners than from high-income earners

The poor don't pay after their income reaches a certain level either.   

Both rich and poor will receive much more than they pay in, assuming SS doesn't go bankrupt.  A very optimistic assumption.
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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #102 on: July 18, 2017, 01:17:40 pm »
No, it's regressive.   FICA is capped above the wage base - the rich don't pay in (for SS) after their wage incomes reach a certain amount.

The benefits are capped as well. 
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Offline The_Reader_David

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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #103 on: July 18, 2017, 01:42:44 pm »
Actually its not a regressive tax. 

Actually, it is a regressive tax.  There is a maximum earning subject to social security tax, so the tax rate is 6.2% (or really 12.4% since money is fungible and the "employer's contribution" is really a tax on the employee's compensation, too, and if you're self-employed you pay all of it, so that's really the tax rate, or rather that times what is it .9325 due to that pointless extra step in the calculation they have you do, rather than just using a slightly lower rate) until you earn something around $110K, I forget exactly what, then 0%.  By definition a tax for which the marginal rate drops at higher income is a regressive tax.
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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #104 on: July 18, 2017, 01:51:53 pm »



I was waiting to see if anyone was going to mention the fact that as originally 'sold' to the people, SoSec was their own money - paid back what they paid into it with interest as a guaranteed pension of sorts.  Not Socialism at all.

But then.... Socialism came in by the hand of Government when Congress decided to take the revenue designated for the "SS trust fund" and reapportioned it into the general fund - essentially taking the money of the producers and redistributing it to whatever it was the government wanted to spend it on.

Call it Thievery.  Grand Theft.  Ponzi Scheme.

What was sold to the people was not Socialism, because it was supposed to be their own money held in trust, paid back.

But of course with every little thing the government touches - it steals and redistributes, which is of course the operative form of Socialism.

And that "trust fund" is broke.  Empty. 

So we now write IOU's that they dump into the same "fund" to the tune of trillions and soon the revenue stream from what is currently employed will not be enough to pay out to retirees as promised.

THAT will be fun, watching the consequences of Socialism play out.

What matters is what was enacted into law.  It's very nice, I suppose, that social security was pitched to Americans as being their own money, to be returned with interest at retirement, but that is not the law that was enacted.  The law as enacted is what we have, and that law makes it clear that social security taxes are nothing more than an additional income tax on wages.

People who are upset that the pitch misrepresented the reality do not have a basis for claiming that the law should be rewritten so that it embodies the pitch.  Unless, of course, one is a diehard liberal for whom pesky laws can always be "interpreted" to do what the liberal wants them to do based on the supposed intent, even if that is contrary to the words actually enacted. 

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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #105 on: July 18, 2017, 01:54:09 pm »
Because it screws people who actually planned ahead for their retirements?

How?  By counting on handouts and freebies from the government?  I thought only liberals and their plantation slaves thought that way.  And throwing fits when they don't get those handouts?

Offline txradioguy

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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #106 on: July 18, 2017, 02:12:16 pm »
How?  By counting on handouts and freebies from the government?  I thought only liberals and their plantation slaves thought that way. And throwing fits when they don't get those handouts?

I think some of it has to do with mindset...and it's not necessarily a Liberal one.

My 65 year old father-in-law worked all his life made really good money and at one point ran his own masonry business.

Never set up any kind of retirement plan for himself.

His mindset was that when he retired he would live off of whatever Social Security provided him.  Right now he lives off of what he gets for VA disability and whatever SocSec kicks in starting this year.

And he by all accounts seems perfectly fine that way.

My wife and I just shake our heads.
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Online corbe

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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #107 on: July 18, 2017, 02:23:04 pm »
Every conservative knows that we DIDN'T actually win the election - some reality show fake conservative chimp did... and he's not capable of leading a conservative revolution any more than McCain would be.

   Don't be so modest @bolobaby
   Tell us how you really feel.
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Offline bilo

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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #108 on: July 18, 2017, 02:25:53 pm »
Nearly every member of the Republican caucus campaigned on repealing Obamacare and told voters they were “constitutional conservatives.” Nothing they’ve done since would lead anyone to believe either claim was true.

Now the liberal Pubs will claim we must have Rat support and the final fix of obamacare will be more regulations, more subsidies of insurance companies, less freedom for people in the individual market and a further expansion of the medicaid program which already covers people up to 350% above the poverty line.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #109 on: July 18, 2017, 02:27:57 pm »
Nearly every member of the Republican caucus campaigned on repealing Obamacare and told voters they were “constitutional conservatives.” Nothing they’ve done since would lead anyone to believe either claim was true.

Now the liberal Pubs will claim we must have Rat support and the final fix of obamacare will be more regulations, more subsidies of insurance companies, less freedom for people in the individual market and a further expansion of the medicaid program which already covers people up to 350% above the poverty line.

It's like trying to tell someone they are about to be run over by a bus and they ignore your warning.  Frustrating as hell.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline Snarknado

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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #110 on: July 18, 2017, 03:15:54 pm »
The benefits are capped as well.

The benefit formula also favors the theoretically poor by returning a higher percentage of income replacement. Of course one could be quite wealthy but still "poor" from the viewpoint of payroll tax payments...
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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #111 on: July 18, 2017, 03:41:37 pm »
How?  By counting on handouts and freebies from the government?  I thought only liberals and their plantation slaves thought that way.  And throwing fits when they don't get those handouts?

There were a lot of people (who are not liberals as we would define them) who believed what they were told for years, that SS was a kind of investment vehicle and planned accordingly.  Those of us who did not believe that were called "cynics." 

This just goes to show, lies of the magnitude of "Keep your plan" have been around a lot longer than Obama.

(I personally never trusted that crap, whatever the law specifically says, because I'm a full-blown cynic.  I'll probably still get burned somehow, but it won't be because I trusted SS,)
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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #112 on: July 18, 2017, 03:44:58 pm »
The benefit formula also favors the theoretically poor by returning a higher percentage of income replacement. Of course one could be quite wealthy but still "poor" from the viewpoint of payroll tax payments...

Nevertheless, we will soon be hearing "Why should a rich bleep like Bill Gates get to collect SS?"  This is already being bandied about.  If Mr. Gates paid in, he should collect.  Warren Buffet I'm not so sure about because I don't know that he did, nor Trump.
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Oceander

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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #113 on: July 18, 2017, 04:45:58 pm »
There were a lot of people (who are not liberals as we would define them) who believed what they were told for years, that SS was a kind of investment vehicle and planned accordingly.  Those of us who did not believe that were called "cynics." 

This just goes to show, lies of the magnitude of "Keep your plan" have been around a lot longer than Obama.

(I personally never trusted that crap, whatever the law specifically says, because I'm a full-blown cynic.  I'll probably still get burned somehow, but it won't be because I trusted SS,)

They may not be liberals, but they are indulging in liberal talking points when they argue, contrary to the law, that they somehow paid for social security benefits and are therefore entitled to them in a way that other welfare beneficiaries are not. 

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #114 on: July 18, 2017, 04:51:48 pm »
They may not be liberals, but they are indulging in liberal talking points when they argue, contrary to the law, that they somehow paid for social security benefits and are therefore entitled to them in a way that other welfare beneficiaries are not.

Agreed.
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Online Hoodat

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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #115 on: July 18, 2017, 04:54:33 pm »
No, it's regressive.   FICA is capped above the wage base

Payouts from Social Security are capped as well.


- the rich don't pay in (for SS) after their wage incomes reach a certain amount.

There is no tax on being rich.  Thus, the pitfalls of using Dem talking points.
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Online Hoodat

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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #116 on: July 18, 2017, 04:57:32 pm »
Nevertheless, we will soon be hearing "Why should a rich bleep like Bill Gates get to collect SS?" 

The only thing you will hear from me is, "Why should I be forced (at the point of a gun) to contribute to a ponzi scheme when I could be setting that money (14% of total income) aside for my own retirement?"
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Offline driftdiver

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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #117 on: July 18, 2017, 04:59:53 pm »
Nevertheless, we will soon be hearing "Why should a rich bleep like Bill Gates get to collect SS?"  This is already being bandied about.  If Mr. Gates paid in, he should collect.  Warren Buffet I'm not so sure about because I don't know that he did, nor Trump.

Most likely Buffet and Trump paid social security.   If you receive wages then you pay social security.  While much of their income most likely comes in the form of distributions it would be unusual for them to not be paid a token wage.   Otherwise the IRS and SSA will force you to pay high penalties for avoiding the SS.   
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Offline driftdiver

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Re: What Was the Point of Winning the Election?
« Reply #118 on: July 18, 2017, 05:00:38 pm »
The only thing you will hear from me is, "Why should I be forced (at the point of a gun) to contribute to a ponzi scheme when I could be setting that money (14% of total income) aside for my own retirement?"

Because you're a good little citizen, now get back to work.
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