Amtrak's Gateway Imperiled by Trump Proposal to Slash Funding

[kevindavis007]

President Donald Trump’s fiscal 2018 budget outline calls for the elimination of billions of dollars that Amtrak is counting on for Gateway, the proposed rail tunnel project under the Hudson River designed to ease New York City-area commuter travel.


Trump’s plan, laid out Thursday in a budget blueprint to Congress, calls for an end to the U.S. Transportation Department’s New Starts program, which provides about $2.3 billion annually to commuter rail and bus rapid-transit programs. The approval process for New Starts financing of the $24 billion project , which includes replacing a century-old bridge in New Jersey, began in July.


Trump’s Republican Party platform in July labeled the government-subsidized Amtrak an “extremely expensive railroad” and called for private control of its profitable Northeast Corridor. The route’s only existing Hudson River crossing, a tunnel more than a century old, is being eroded by corrosives deposited in 2012 by Hurricane Sandy floodwater, and has less than 20 years of serviceable use.


“President Trump is single-handedly trying to derail Gateway and send a catastrophic ripple effect that will cause irreparable harm to our regional and national economies,” U.S. Senator Robert Menendez, a Democrat from New Jersey, said in a statement.


Read More: https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-03-16/amtrak-s-gateway-imperiled-by-trump-proposal-to-slash-funding

[Frank Cannon]

[Applewood]

Amtrak should be defunded, period.   Gobs of taxpayer money are poured into Amtrak every year and the trains and service suck. 

[kevindavis007]

Somewhere on the net Willie Green and his fellow train pushers are crying.

[kevindavis007]

Amtrak should be defunded, period.   Gobs of taxpayer money are poured into Amtrak every year and the trains and service suck.

It should be privatized..

[Applewood]

It should be privatized..

Trains were  privately owned at one time,  but then government decided it could run the trains better and more efficiently than the private sector.

And like everything else government gets its hands on, train service has been run into the ground. 

[Applewood]

Somewhere on the net Willie Green and his fellow train pushers are crying.

I used to like to chat with Willie about trains on TOS.  We just disagreed on who should pay for them. 

[kevindavis007]

Trains were  privately owned at one time,  but then government decided it could run the trains better and more efficiently than the private sector.

And like everything else government gets its hands on, train service has been run into the ground.

I think that private passenger rail was about dead, then feds came in and took over.


Look I understand in how rail was part of this history of this country. However, nostalgia is ok, but we need to move on.

[txradioguy]

Amtrak is one of those money pits in the federal budget that should have been sent out to survive or fail on it's own in the private sector a long long time ago.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

President Donald Trump’s fiscal 2018 budget outline calls for the elimination of billions of dollars that Amtrak is counting on for Gateway, the proposed rail tunnel project under the Hudson River designed to ease New York City-area commuter travel.


Trump’s plan, laid out Thursday in a budget blueprint to Congress, calls for an end to the U.S. Transportation Department’s New Starts program, which provides about $2.3 billion annually to commuter rail and bus rapid-transit programs. The approval process for New Starts financing of the $24 billion project , which includes replacing a century-old bridge in New Jersey, began in July.


Trump’s Republican Party platform in July labeled the government-subsidized Amtrak an “extremely expensive railroad” and called for private control of its profitable Northeast Corridor. The route’s only existing Hudson River crossing, a tunnel more than a century old, is being eroded by corrosives deposited in 2012 by Hurricane Sandy floodwater, and has less than 20 years of serviceable use.


“President Trump is single-handedly trying to derail Gateway and send a catastrophic ripple effect that will cause irreparable harm to our regional and national economies,” U.S. Senator Robert Menendez, a Democrat from New Jersey, said in a statement.


Read More: https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2017-03-16/amtrak-s-gateway-imperiled-by-trump-proposal-to-slash-funding

I'd say Americans are imperiled by the continuous drain of money-losing propositions year after year like Amtrak represents.

Amtrak keeps in business only due to the DC fatcats who wish to ride the rail to NY to see Broadway shows.  It used to also be Joe Biden's daily ride to rest his head on his pillow in Delaware after a grueling day in Congress.

[Applewood]

I think that private passenger rail was about dead, then feds came in and took over.


Look I understand in how rail was part of this history of this country. However, nostalgia is ok, but we need to move on.

Seems to me that's the story of a number of things federal, state and local governments have taken over. These private entities were supposedly losing money, so the service was taken over by government entities.  I don't know if anyone bothered to look closely at the books to see if these crises were real or imagined. 

Bottom line is that government cannot run any business better than the private sector. Simply because no one in government has any real world business experience. All they know are rules and regulations, and when the government controlled "business" continues to fail, just steal more taxpayer money to prop it up. 

When are we going to admit that government trying to operate business is a failure and it's time to return these businesses to the private sector where someone with real world business experience can operate them and perhaps make a profit.  or if not, let these businesses die?

It's a shame we live in such a fast paced world.  If people would slow down and take a leisurely trip by train, they would see far more of this great nation than with any other means of travel.  I've traveled to and from DC by train several times, and the trip was far more enjoyable than flying.  Unfortunately, once government took over passenger service, they drastically reduced service, and if I wanted to go to DC, I would have to be at the local station at 4 in the morning.  No one wants to do that.   Just like the airlines, government has managed to  make train travel as pleasant as a root canal.  Doesn't have to be that way.

[LateForLunch]

Part of the problem with trains and other fare-based systems is theft. A huge volume of riders don't pay. That costs an estimated 20% or more of their revenue in places like Los Angeles. The employees are either afraid to confront fare-dodgers or just flat out don't care and so millions of dollars in fares go uncollected every day in every city that has public transportation systems.

So even if you build a system, the revenue stream that will theoretically support the operation never emerges.

If a transportation system gets privatized the responsibility of collecting fares goes to them, and becomes a matter of protecting their bottom line. Politicians control public employees or law enforcement and the politicians flat out don't GAF if people don't pay for transportation because there is no direct negative impact on the politicians, nor those who work for them. They just shrug and say, "There's nothing we can do!"

Private companies have incentive to protect revenue and will find a way to enforce collection of fares.

That was in fact one of the primary ways that the old Pinkerton security company got its start - helping railroad companies bust employees that were collecting fares and stealing the money.

[Fishrrman]

The Pennsylvania Railroad built Penn Station, along with the tunnels under both the Hudson River (north and south tubes) and East River (4 tunnels), completed in 1910.

They're now 107 years in continuous operation. And I -DO- mean "continuous". During rush hours there's a train through each tunnel every few minutes, sometimes several trains in a single tunnel at once.

It's not just Amtrak that uses them.
In fact, in terms of the number of trains and passengers, Amtrak is the "smallest" user.
Long Island and NJ Rail are the heavier users.
ENORMOUS numbers of commuters move into and out of Manhattan from both directions each day.

I made many trips through the East River tunnels in my career (two each working trip).
They're getting old and aren't going to last that many years longer.

So... they must be replaced. I'm not even sure if the existing tubes could be "rebuilt". They're constructed of iron "rings", each ring perhaps 30-36" end-to-end, to create the tunnel's outer shell. The insides are lined in concrete. I'm not sure if it's feasible to rebuild these, or whether they'll ultimately have to be "abandoned in place" in favor of completely new construction.

But this is a project that can't be discarded, it must be done. The failure of one Hudson tunnel would be a disaster to the city on a par with the World Trade Center. Perhaps worse, because the economy of the city and the region depends on reliable transportation in/out of the place.

Mr. Trump has made noise about repairing the country's infrastructure.
Penn Station -- and Grand Central Terminal -- are two of the most important parts of the infrastructure the city has, alongside of the subway system. Without either, the city would be in a world of hurt.

One other comment about the "profitable" Northeast Corridor.
Here's a secret for ya -- it ain't.
Oh, farebox revenue probably covers the cost of the operating crews, dispatchers, etc.
But it comes nowhere near paying for the rest of what's needed -- the maintenance, capital improvements, etc.

That's the problem with passenger railroading, whether it be the long haul or commuter traffic.
It costs far more to provide the service, than can be recovered from the farebox (by charging rates folks are willing to pay).
It's actually been this way for a LONG time. Passengers started becoming unprofitable for the railroads all the way back in the early 20th century.
Many of them couldn't get out of it at the time, however.

That's why Amtrak came about in the first place -- to "relieve them of the passenger-carrying burden".

Passenger is never going to be a profitable enterprise.
This doesn't mean conservative principles can't be applied.

The tunnels will have to be replaced -- there's really no choice.
What "choice" there is, is to fund the project properly and do it right from an engineering standpoint.

Something like this would be right up Mr. Trump's alley. Wasn't one of his ripostes in the debates (paraphrasing) "I know about this -- I'm in construction!" ??

[Bigun]

Somewhere on the net Willie Green and his fellow train pushers are crying.

Now there's a name from the past I could have easily done without hearing!  What a loon that guy was!

[Bigun]

Amtrak is one of those money pits in the federal budget that should have been sent out to survive or fail on it's own in the private sector a long long time ago.

Governments  have no business being actively engaged in ANY  business venture period!  That is not what they are designed to do and thus cannot do it well. Beside that, when government gets into business they immediately provide themselve advantages not avaliabe to their private sector competition and soon drive those tax paying private sector competitors out of business.  This applies to everything frm garbage collecting to education.  Get the government entirely out of the business of compeating with the private sector in any form an you will quickly see improvments across the board.