Author Topic: BREAKING: U.S. Senate REVERSED Major Obama Law. He’s Reportedly FURIOUS!  (Read 9312 times)

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Offline sneakypete

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How about no testing for drugs or alcohol. UE benefits of two years, or even more.

Then go on Obamacare "rehab" several times. UE is a bargain for the taxpayers, compared to the cost of the "recovery" and "treatment" programs.

Insurance under Obamacare MUST provide for such "treatment," which flies you to luxury resort places like Malibu.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/addiction-treatment-vulnerable-with-likely-obamacare-repeal/

Hint: Before the expansion of the "for profit" treatment-recovery industry, thanks to Obamacare, people did recover none the less. AA is for free and for fun.

@truth_seeker

How about NONE of that,and we start making people realize once again that THEY are responsible for THEIR actions?

If you come to work under the influence of drugs that alter or affect your mental of physical capabilities,the employer has the RIGHT to either fire you or give you a probation period of his choice,IF it is his choice to do that?

Not everybody has to be fired. A certain percentage of the population is useless,but I think MOST people would fall in line with a "sobriety at work" policy once they understood it wasn't an option,but a absolute requirement to keep their job,and that if they were fired for NOT going to work sober AFTER BEING WARNED ONCE,they wouldn't even be eligible for unemployment because they essentially quit working on purpose due to their own decision to continue to go to work impaired after having received a warning.

And once again,the decision to fire them,give them a time-out,or even send them to rehab of some sort is ENTIRELY at the discretion of the employer UNLESS the employee is closing in on retirement,and the case against him or her seems to be based more on screwing them out of their retirement than it does their abilities to perform their jobs.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 03:27:18 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline EC

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@EC

Illegal OR legal. Airline pilots are one example.

What could be fairer than treating everyone the same way? Drunks aren't allowed to keep their jobs if they come to work drunk,so why should addicts of OTHER drugs?

Demanding EVERYONE come to work sober doesn't discriminate against anyone. To say it does is like saying the NBA is discriminating because there are no dwarf bb players in the NFL.



@EC

@sneakypete

Oh, I totally agree with you. In fact, I go slightly further and think that if someone loses their job as a direct result of drug or alcohol abuse, they get no unemployment at all until they're getting treatment.

My point is - why should the same standards of relative sobriety not be applied to unemployment benefits? It can't be called "unfair" by the perpetually outraged, because it's something employed have to deal with as a matter of course.
Get to drinking (or taking drugs) and looking for a job tends to slip out the window without you really noticing.
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Offline LonestarDream

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@LonestarDream

Yeah,why not GIVE the feral government even MORE power and authority over our lives,and the lives of the people who employ us or work for us?

Then have savings instead of taking UI benefits - then you have no testing obligation .  Maine starting asking for folks on food stamps to do work and guess what-- the welfare roles dropped FAST!!!
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Offline sneakypete

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@sneakypete

Quote
Oh, I totally agree with you. In fact, I go slightly further and think that if someone loses their job as a direct result of drug or alcohol abuse, they get no unemployment at all until they're getting treatment.

@EC

Works for me. I even wrote similar thoughts in other posts on this thread.


Quote
My point is - why should the same standards of relative sobriety not be applied to unemployment benefits? It can't be called "unfair" by the perpetually outraged, because it's something employed have to deal with as a matter of course.

Complete agreement as long as it is the employer, the employers insurance company,or the state that is VOLUNTARILY paying for the treatment. It is NOT the job or the responsibility of the feral government to babysit private employees in the various states.

Quote
Get to drinking (or taking drugs) and looking for a job tends to slip out the window without you really noticing.

I believe the legal term for that is "It's MILLER TIME!"
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 03:53:41 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline LonestarDream

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Surprised anyone would be against this. Actually not with all the dedicated Leftists on this board.


Very telling isn't it?  If people had to stay clean and/or work for their welfare, we would have less welfare.  And then government would  be TRULY out of our lives.
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Offline truth_seeker

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It used to be that a "high-end treatment & recovery" program was only for the rich.

Families and employers would let their addicts/alcoholics attend. It was the first house on the block, if you could afford it.

But most do not get clean/sober the first time. they need to go further down the path, and experience some bad things, whatever their station in life.

So making taxpayers pay for high-end recovery is a waste of money, but it is a way for big- government advocates to feel good about themselves, and the industries they assist.

My 23+ years of sobriety have taught me that making high-end recovery available doesn't help anybody but the company.

the company is being paid many, many $thousands per month per patient. They won't kick a paying customer out, for relapse.

Obamacare spawned a high-profit industry, They have bought all new vans, to drive their "patients" around town to various existing AA meetings. We call the vehicles "druggy-buggies."

The old saying "nobody wants you when your are down and out," is now "everybody wants you," since you represent tremendous profit.

Oh, the company is paid regardless of outcomes. Most will relapse within days/weeks/months but the fedgov controlled insurance has already been paid for.

And you can come back over and over. BTW most are owned/operated by entities newly created, with no long term experience or track record. IOW they only started once it became hugely profitable.

Forge about old tried and tested non-profits that actually help the down and out, like Salvation Army.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline sneakypete

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Then have savings instead of taking UI benefits - then you have no testing obligation .  Maine starting asking for folks on food stamps to do work and guess what-- the welfare roles dropped FAST!!!

@LonestarDream 

Yup,when the money is no longer "FREE!",it suddenly isn't as desirable OR necessary. Odd how those people suddenly managed to find the money to feed themselves without the Food Stamps,ain't it?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 03:52:35 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Grace does not appear to be an attribute that you possess.

BFD.  I'm not in it for "grace."  I've never given two chits what you think of me, it's not why I'm here.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 03:58:48 pm by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline sneakypete

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Forge about old tried and tested non-profits that actually help the down and out, like Salvation Army.

@truth_seeker

Not to mention AA and NA. No money to scam in them since they are almost entirely self-help groups that don't let attendees get away with making excuses about how their drug and/or drinking problems are caused by someone else. It's your peers,and they WILL get in your face if you try that whine and let you know that NOBODY is responsible for your actions but yourself,and nobody can "heal" you but yourself.

Which is why,IMHO,they work better than any of the others.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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BFD.  I'm not in it for "grace."  I've never given two chits what you think of me, it's not why I'm here.

@Cyber Liberty

You and I don't always agree,but I'm cheering you on with this one!
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline libertybele

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@sneakypete

Oh, I totally agree with you. In fact, I go slightly further and think that if someone loses their job as a direct result of drug or alcohol abuse, they get no unemployment at all until they're getting treatment.

My point is - why should the same standards of relative sobriety not be applied to unemployment benefits? It can't be called "unfair" by the perpetually outraged, because it's something employed have to deal with as a matter of course.
Get to drinking (or taking drugs) and looking for a job tends to slip out the window without you really noticing.

In theory, that's all fine and good ... however, most who lose their jobs also lose any kind of health insurance; how do those people then get substance abuse treatment?  It's a catch 22 situation.

Portugal has turned their war on drugs by decriminalizing drugs; even heroin.  The number of addicts have been reduced, the number of addiction deaths has decreased and users are getting help rather than being locked up.

https://news.vice.com/article/ungass-portugal-what-happened-after-decriminalization-drugs-weed-to-heroin
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 04:10:29 pm by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline EC

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@truth_seeker

Not to mention AA and NA.

You see people at the very best a person can be and very worst. Often from the same person within 5 minutes.
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Offline EC

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In theory, that's all fine and good ... however, most who lose their jobs also lose any kind of health insurance; how do those people then get substance abuse treatment?  It's a catch 22 situation.

AA's free. So's NA.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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@Cyber Liberty

You and I don't always agree,but I'm cheering you on with this one!


:beer:  (Yes, it's a little early in the day, but it's 5PM somewhere and it doesn't disqualify me for UE bennies, yet.   :laugh: )
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline sneakypete

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In theory, that's all fine and good ... however, most who lose their jobs also lose any kind of health insurance; how do those people then get substance abuse treatment?  It's a catch 22 situation.

@libertybele

Anywhere BUT the feral government. If any of the states want to fund it,they have that right. If they don't,there are various "sorta free" agencies like the Salvation Army,various other religious organizations,Alcoholic Anonymous,Naracotics Anonymous,etc,etc,etc,that don't charge you a dime for their services.

And of course,if none of those appeal to you,suck it up and take responsibility for yourself on your own,or die. Your choice.

BTW,I wrote "sorta free" above because those agencies are charities that get their money from contributions from people writing off the money on their taxes. As usualy,nothing in life is free. Everything has a price.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline libertybele

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AA's free. So's NA.

Ya, obviously.  What you're not getting is how do we help the addict?  IOW, how do we help them safely go through withdrawal?  You can't expect an addict to go to an AA meeting and voila ... the meeting cures them.  There is a period of time that they have to go through withdrawals or detoxing and afterwards on some type of program or medication to help them ... that's what most can't afford and that's where IMHO help is needed the most.  Anyone can walk into a meeting after the fact ... it's the middle step of withdrawal and detoxing that is the hurdle.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline libertybele

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It used to be that a "high-end treatment & recovery" program was only for the rich.

Families and employers would let their addicts/alcoholics attend. It was the first house on the block, if you could afford it.

But most do not get clean/sober the first time. they need to go further down the path, and experience some bad things, whatever their station in life.

So making taxpayers pay for high-end recovery is a waste of money, but it is a way for big- government advocates to feel good about themselves, and the industries they assist.

My 23+ years of sobriety have taught me that making high-end recovery available doesn't help anybody but the company.

the company is being paid many, many $thousands per month per patient. They won't kick a paying customer out, for relapse.

Obamacare spawned a high-profit industry, They have bought all new vans, to drive their "patients" around town to various existing AA meetings. We call the vehicles "druggy-buggies."

The old saying "nobody wants you when your are down and out," is now "everybody wants you," since you represent tremendous profit.

Oh, the company is paid regardless of outcomes. Most will relapse within days/weeks/months but the fedgov controlled insurance has already been paid for.

And you can come back over and over. BTW most are owned/operated by entities newly created, with no long term experience or track record. IOW they only started once it became hugely profitable.

Forge about old tried and tested non-profits that actually help the down and out, like Salvation Army.

 888high58888  Congratulations on 23+ years of sobriety!!
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline sneakypete

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You see people at the very best a person can be and very worst. Often from the same person within 5 minutes.

@EC

I have never been to any of those meetings,but I have a lot of relatives that have,and from what they tell me it works because the other members don't let you get away with telling the lies in public that you tell to yourself.

I have never been to a private treatment clinic either,but I seriously doubt any that get paid to treat patients are going to risk shutting off their cash flow by offending their paying customers.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline LonestarDream

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@LonestarDream 

Yup,when the money is no longer "FREE!",it suddenly isn't as desirable OR necessary. Odd how those people suddenly managed to find the money to feed themselves without the Food Stamps,ain't it?

When I state on other threads that we need to wean people off of welfare, I really mean it.

But if welfare dependency impedes the political will to enact reforms ( like repealing ObamaCare) then we have to deal with that too.
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Offline EC

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@EC

I have never been to any of those meetings,but I have a lot of relatives that have,and from what they tell me it works because the other members don't let you get away with telling the lies in public that you tell to yourself.

I have never been to a private treatment clinic either,but I seriously doubt any that get paid to treat patients are going to risk shutting off their cash flow by offending their paying customers.


Back when I quit, I went almost daily for several months. Fit it around work. Stopped going at all for a while on the advice of my sponsor (and the ones in the meeting) because I was only getting the urge to drink when listening to other people's problems. Now I'll pop in a couple times a month, on average. Got enough of a handle on things that I don't need it for me so much, but people need none judgy ears still. Part of the paying back.
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Offline Hoodat

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Should folks who drink alcohol receive unemployment benefits?

Should the Federal Government have any involvement at all in State unemployment policies?  The entire Department of Labor needs to be shut down.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Offline sneakypete

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Ya, obviously.  What you're not getting is how do we help the addict?  IOW, how do we help them safely go through withdrawal?  You can't expect an addict to go to an AA meeting and voila ... the meeting cures them.  There is a period of time that they have to go through withdrawals or detoxing and afterwards on some type of program or medication to help them ... that's what most can't afford and that's where IMHO help is needed the most.  Anyone can walk into a meeting after the fact ... it's the middle step of withdrawal and detoxing that is the hurdle.

@libertybele

First off,you need to understand that alcohol is a drug like every other drug,and alcoholics DO go through alcohol withdrawal.  Seriously.

I am no expert on programs like AA and NA,but both are supported by local contributions from organizations and individuals,and nobody goes to their first meeting until they have hit rock bottom and know they either quit taking drugs in all forms or die. Which pretty much means they are "sober and shaking" the first time they attend a meeting.  There are all sorts of addicts at these meetings. Some are in  their first week,and some have been attending meetings for decades. There is not a person there that doesn't understand the problem and what is needed on a personal basis.

I am confident that if someone appears at any of those meetings,including other programs like the Salvation Army,and they are going through major withdrawal symptoms,that there is at least one person at each meeting that can pick up a phone and arrange emergency medical treatment for the "newbie". No,they are not going to one of those expensive private clinics,but they will be hospitalized until they stabilize and then given some medication to take before being "released to the wild" again.

I am also guessing someone from the program that called 9-11 for them will be notified they are being released,and waiting at the door for them when they walk out of it. These people aren't members of those programs because they are bored,getting paid to be there,or looking for fame and fortune. They are there because THEY have been to the "same THERE" as man or woman being released from the hospital because they want to help,and even NEED to help for their own sobriety reasons.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 04:41:03 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline EC

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Your guess is accurate.
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Offline Hoodat

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nobody can "heal" you but yourself.

God is the one who does the healing, which is why He appears in half of the Steps.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline sneakypete

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  The entire Department of Labor needs to be shut down.

@Hoodat

I will go along with "greatly reduced in size",but not shut down. They have a legitimate function to serve by making sure large companies don't cheat employees out of their retirement pay,for example. States can't really do this because large companies operate in multiple states.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!