Judge Andrew Napolitano: Obama 'Went Outside Chain of Command,' Used British Spy Agency to Surveil Trump

[Lando Lincoln]

Absent evidence, it doesn't matter who believes it is plausible. This is simply an assertion.

[DiogenesLamp]

None. These saps will believe anything.

Perhaps we will not believe it so forcefully as you seem to believe he has no proof.


Pray tell,   what "evidence"  convinces you he has no proof?   


Or do you believe things without evidence,  same as you accuse us? 

[DiogenesLamp]

Absent evidence, it doesn't matter who believes it is plausible. This is simply an assertion.

So is the contrary assertion,  in which case,  plausibility is the only guidance we have left. 

[kevindavis007]

Perhaps we will not believe it so forcefully as you seem to believe he has no proof.


Pray tell,   what "evidence"  convinces you he has no proof?   


Or do you believe things without evidence,  same as you accuse us?

Until he has more sources than unnamed sources, he has to come up with legit proof.

[LonestarDream]

So is the contrary assertion,  in which case,  plausibility is the only guidance we have left.

No doubt Trump had every intention of releasing the info he had on Sat morning.  Then he was likely briefed on the sources and methods impacts....

[DiogenesLamp]

No doubt Trump had every intention of releasing the info he had on Sat morning.  Then he was likely briefed on the sources and methods impacts....

I was thinking it might be something like that.   If he lets people know how he found out,   it might compromise some stuff he doesn't want compromised.   


But there could be other reasons.   

[Lando Lincoln]

I have made many arguments based on my sense of plausibility, I'm sure.  This will be headline news if true (and it could be).  But, without evidence or identified sources, which is more plausible:

The Judge is right, or

The Judge is wrong.

And, how does it matter?

[DiogenesLamp]

I have made many arguments based on my sense of plausibility, I'm sure.  This will be headline news if true (and it could be).  But, without evidence or identified sources, which is more plausible:

The Judge is right, or

I believe the Judge is telling the truth when he says that he has spoken with three unnamed sources which told him this.   


Maybe i'm old fashioned,  but I don't think a Judge would deliberately lie about something. 


Now whether what they told him was true or not is another matter,  but it sounds plausible for that to be true as well. 

The Judge is wrong.

I don't consider that explanation plausible. 

And, how does it matter?

I think it matters because it draws our attention to a sort of abuse that needs to be dealt with. 

[Fishrrman]

Diogenes observed:
"This assertion has the ring of truth,  it seems to me."

I agree.
A gentleman's agreement between the intelligence agencies, with the goal of "plausible deniability" ...

[Fishrrman]

txradio wrote:
"I thought unnamed sources were bad?"

To paraphrase Don Rumsfeld:
There are the known good unnamed sources.
There are the known bad unnamed sources.
And there are the unknown known unnamed sources.

(Hey, did I ever tell you the time about when I got off the engine at Penn Station and ran right into Mr. Rumsfeld...?)

[edpc]

Yes,  you said that.   That you said we'd believe it for that reason does not make it true.   


I believe it because it sounds very plausible to me.   It answers a lot of questions about how intelligence agencies could get around the technicalities of the law to do what we've all believed they do anyways. 


Do you think intelligence agencies don't keep up with what is going on in their own countries?   


I believe that they do,  and that they always have done.

Kind of like the time General Thomas McInerney had 'sources' telling him MH 370 landed in Pakistan.  Sounded plausible, but turned out to be completely false.

[Sanguine]

Absent evidence, it doesn't matter who believes it is plausible. This is simply an assertion.

But, Lando, saying it didn't happen is also simply an assertion.  Plausibility is all we've got at this point.

[Lando Lincoln]

But, Lando, saying it didn't happen is also simply an assertion.  Plausibility is all we've got at this point.

You are right about that, Sanguine.  I just hope the Judge (or others) can come forward with something tangible. 

[LonestarDream]

You are right about that, Sanguine.  I just hope the Judge (or others) can come forward with something tangible.

Hillary gets off on the emails and is now talking about 2020.

Obama gets off on the wiretapping/ surveillance .   It may be that someone from the UK side comes forward at some point.

[r9etb]

Perhaps we will not believe it so forcefully as you seem to believe he has no proof.


Pray tell,   what "evidence"  convinces you he has no proof?   


Or do you believe things without evidence,  same as you accuse us?

What a remarkable comment.  You demand evidence of not having proof -- as if the lack of offered proof were not evidence enough.

Tell, me -- do you ever get dizzy when you post such stuff?

[Wingnut]

What a remarkable comment.  You demand evidence of not having proof -- as if the lack of offered proof were not evidence enough.

Tell, me -- do you ever get dizzy when you post such stuff?

DL should put you on Ignore. . 

[r9etb]

DL should put you on Ignore. .

What the hell is your problem, son?

[EC]

Plausible. Yeah right. You all checked your damned brains at the login box?

Why the hell would the UK co-operate with the Worm? It is of absolutely zero benefit to us.

Far more plausible - the three anonymous sources are from the US intel community taking the heat off themselves.

[r9etb]

Far more plausible - the three anonymous sources are from the US intel community taking the heat off themselves.

True -- and even more plausible, three anonymous sources who are passing on what they heard, or think they heard, or who just want to be quoted for something, rather than speaking from personal knowledge.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

If this is true, then it seems likely that those three leakers disapprove of using the Brits to spy on our own people.  That would mean they are aligned with the Administration on this.  So why wouldn't those "leakers" simply pass that information up to someone at the White House, or to the pro-Administration head of the CIA?

[EC]

If this is true, then it seems likely that those three leakers disapprove of using the Brits to spy on our own people.  That would mean they are aligned with the Administration on this.  So why wouldn't those "leakers" simply pass that information up to someone at the White House, or to the pro-Administration head of the CIA?

Public perception. Anything from the WH is going to be automatically discounted, to some extent, as spin.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Public perception. Anything from the WH is going to be automatically discounted, to some extent, as spin.

If the CIA director comes out and says (or even just tells the intelligence committees) that the Brits were used to gather this information, how is that worse than making no statement of support at all?  Heck, if the issue is sensitivity about it being the Brits, then he wouldn't even have to identify the country in question other than to say it is an "ally". 

I just don't see the downside to defending the claim publicly. 

[EC]

Come on, Maj. Bill.

The relationship between the intelligence communities is touchy as best and the CIA really doesn't want to piss off the source of 95% of it's humint in the middle east. Saying the British Secret Services interfered in some way in the internal matters of the USA is one way to guarantee a complete lack of co-operation in the future.

[truth_seeker]

....double dealing between British intelligence and US intelligence ....

Has been going on since WWII and before.  Grownups shouldn't be surprised.

[Emjay]

I hate this kind of thing, especially for a significant news item.  Why not say 20 unnamed sources?  100?  Countless?  It doesn't matter a whit, does it?  And with "fake news" everywhere.

I know, but this is a quote from an actual person who may have inside information or, at least, informed guesses.

I think it's interesting and possible.  Just worth a look.