Author Topic: Judge Andrew Napolitano: Obama 'Went Outside Chain of Command,' Used British Spy Agency to Surveil Trump  (Read 5116 times)

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Offline SirLinksALot

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SOURCE: FOX NEWS

URL: http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/03/14/judge-napolitano-why-there-may-never-be-proof-even-if-obama-spied-trump



The Justice Department on Monday asked lawmakers for more time to gather evidence related to President Trump's claim that former President Obama ordered wiretaps on Trump Tower's phones during last year's presidential campaign.

The House Intelligence Committee said it would give the Justice Department until March 20 to comply.

Current and former administration officials have been unable to provide any evidence of the Obama administration wiretapping Trump Tower, yet the president's aides have been reluctant to publicly contradict their boss.

On "Fox & Friends" this morning, Judge Andrew Napolitano said that even if the Obama administration did spy on Trump, there may never be a way to prove it.

He explained that the statutes allow the president to order the surveillance of any person in the U.S., without suspicion, probable cause or a warrant, but that would leave "fingerprints."

In this case, the alleged surveillance was reportedly ordered in a way that left no record, he said.

"Three intelligence sources have informed Fox News that President Obama went outside the chain of command," Napolitano said. "He didn't use the NSA, he didn't use the CIA, he didn't use the FBI, and he didn't use the Department of Justice."

Instead, Napolitano said, Obama used GCHQ, a British intelligence and security organization that has 24-7 access to the NSA database.

"There's no American fingerprints on this," Napolitano said. "What happened to the guy who ordered this? Resigned three days after Donald Trump was inaugurated."

CLICK ABOVE LINK FOR THE REST AND THE VIDEO...

Offline DiogenesLamp

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I saw this earlier.   I think I also saw a report that there are three unnamed sources confirming this. 
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Offline LonestarDream

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I saw this earlier.   I think I also saw a report that there are three unnamed sources confirming this.

Blair and Clinton used the GCHQ/NSA loophole to spy on each other's political enemies, if memory serves. 
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Obama doesn't control UK's spies.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Blair and Clinton used the GCHQ/NSA loophole to spy on each other's political enemies, if memory serves.


Nasty little end run around the law,  isn't it? 

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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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On "Fox & Friends" this morning, Judge Andrew Napolitano said that even if the Obama administration did spy on Trump, there may never be a way to prove it.


I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this will be the new Trumpster talking point.

Offline Sanguine

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Offline LonestarDream

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Nasty little end run around the law,  isn't it?

Yes it is.   Real story is abuse of intelligence prevents legitimate collection of intelligence WRT Russia.
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Offline Lando Lincoln

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I saw this earlier.   I think I also saw a report that there are three unnamed sources confirming this.

I hate this kind of thing, especially for a significant news item.  Why not say 20 unnamed sources?  100?  Countless?  It doesn't matter a whit, does it?  And with "fake news" everywhere. 
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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I hate this kind of thing, especially for a significant news item.  Why not say 20 unnamed sources?  100?  Countless?  It doesn't matter a whit, does it?  And with "fake news" everywhere.

And the rubes will believe for no other reason than they want to believe it.

Offline ABX

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If true, the proper evidence needs to be presented to either the Justice Department or Congress for legal action to be taken. This potentially could be a federal offense going outside FISA requirements. However, if there is evidence of this, withholding it is just as much of a crime.

Offline LonestarDream

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Nasty little end run around the law,  isn't it?


So how did Echelon fit in with the legal obligation to get warrants for surveillance? The spooks found ways around the law. GCHQ is not allowed to spy on Brits nor the NSA on Americans, so the agencies simply spied on each other's citizens and handed the intel over outside the target country. Thus the two agencies have been outside the law for decades.

So back at MI5's secret info-auction, what exactly did Stephen Lander mean by his 'open society'?. 'Open' not to the public who pay his wages but to anyone with big enough bags of cash. 

Steve Boggan's revelation received virtually no follow-up press because it re-opened a can of worms considered too indigestible in London's newsrooms. The creeping privatisation of MI5 was in progress, and who dared to contemplate where that might lead? Lander failed to recognise that the NATO powers can only rely on their spooks keeping mum if they stay on the angels' side of right and wrong, and he had crossed the line.


https://www.rt.com/op-edge/prism-wartime-sell-secrets-604/


There have been other sources and books that talk about this over the years....
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say this will be the new Trumpster talking point.



Could that be because it is highly relevant to the issue?   


Do you have other information of more significance on this particular issue? 

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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I hate this kind of thing, especially for a significant news item.  Why not say 20 unnamed sources?  100?  Countless?  It doesn't matter a whit, does it?  And with "fake news" everywhere.


I am not a big fan of Judge Napolitano,   but I do not believe he makes things up.   


If he says he has three different intelligence sources for this,   I believe he probably does. 


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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And the rubes will believe for no other reason than they want to believe it.



They might also believe it because it might very well be true.    I read an article earlier saying this double dealing between British intelligence and US intelligence is one of the things that was released as a result of Snowden's data dump.   


Apparently both sides have these tacit little agreements to do each other favors when it comes to spying on the citizens of an allied country,  so as not to break laws against nations spying on their own citizens. 


This assertion has the ring of truth,  it seems to me. 

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline DiogenesLamp

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So how did Echelon fit in with the legal obligation to get warrants for surveillance? The spooks found ways around the law. GCHQ is not allowed to spy on Brits nor the NSA on Americans, so the agencies simply spied on each other's citizens and handed the intel over outside the target country. Thus the two agencies have been outside the law for decades.

So back at MI5's secret info-auction, what exactly did Stephen Lander mean by his 'open society'?. 'Open' not to the public who pay his wages but to anyone with big enough bags of cash. 

Steve Boggan's revelation received virtually no follow-up press because it re-opened a can of worms considered too indigestible in London's newsrooms. The creeping privatisation of MI5 was in progress, and who dared to contemplate where that might lead? Lander failed to recognise that the NATO powers can only rely on their spooks keeping mum if they stay on the angels' side of right and wrong, and he had crossed the line.


https://www.rt.com/op-edge/prism-wartime-sell-secrets-604/


There have been other sources and books that talk about this over the years....


And what you have posted  is exactly what I meant when I said that these allegations may very well be true.   


That nations rely on the intelligence apparatus of other nations to spy on their own citizens,   has the ring of truth to it.   
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Offline txradioguy

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I thought unnamed sources were bad?  :pondering:
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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They might also believe it because it might very well be true.


LIke I said, you'll believe it simply because you want to believe it.

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I thought unnamed sources were bad?  :pondering:

I know.  It gets so tiring to see the left abuse that old gimmick.  Now it is SOP for the so-called right? 

What the hell is the world coming too?   

Offline DiogenesLamp

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LIke I said, you'll believe it simply because you want to believe it.



Yes,  you said that.   That you said we'd believe it for that reason does not make it true.   


I believe it because it sounds very plausible to me.   It answers a lot of questions about how intelligence agencies could get around the technicalities of the law to do what we've all believed they do anyways. 


Do you think intelligence agencies don't keep up with what is going on in their own countries?   


I believe that they do,  and that they always have done. 

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Offline txradioguy

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I know.  It gets so tiring to see the left abuse that old gimmick.  Now it is SOP for the so-called right? 

What the hell is the world coming too?

I think it's beginning to turn into something not even close to resembling a government by the people of the people and more of a "he who has the gold makes the rule" kinda thing.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline kevindavis007

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Does he have proof?  I'm mean not from unnamed news sources.
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Offline LonestarDream

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You can bet that if  Obama spied on the UN chief , he spied on Trump.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/02/nsa-portrait-total-surveillance

Barack Obama hailed United Nations secretary general Ban Ki-moon as a "good friend" after the two had sat down in the White House in April to discuss the issues of the day: Syria and alleged chemical weapons attacks, North Korea, Israel-Palestine, and climate change.

But long before Ban's limousine had even passed through the White House gates for the meeting, the US government knew what the secretary general was going to talk about, courtesy of the world's biggest eavesdropping organisation, the National Security Agency.



Yes,  you said that.   That you said we'd believe it for that reason does not make it true.   


I believe it because it sounds very plausible to me.   It answers a lot of questions about how intelligence agencies could get around the technicalities of the law to do what we've all believed they do anyways. 


Do you think intelligence agencies don't keep up with what is going on in their own countries?   


I believe that they do,  and that they always have done.
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Does he have proof?  I'm mean not from unnamed news sources.


None. These saps will believe anything.