Author Topic: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test  (Read 10951 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #100 on: March 11, 2017, 06:39:31 pm »
There is no way in hell that they can state that accurately.

In fact, I would bet money that some evil loon/wacko somewhere is trying to clone humans as we speak.  The "evil" demands it (slave labor workforce and army), dontcha know.  Think:  Mengele.
Cloning has not been taken to full term, actually not past very early stages with humans. Not to speak of, anyway. Think spare parts, with no rejection issues, and there are people who would gladly kill for them. If the 'person' (would a clone be considered a person?) never officially existed, is it still murder?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #101 on: March 11, 2017, 06:48:19 pm »
If some wanted to clone you they wouldn't need genetic testing, just a sample of your saliva or blood.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #102 on: March 11, 2017, 07:08:51 pm »
If some wanted to clone you they wouldn't need genetic testing, just a sample of your saliva or blood.
And what will they get from that? DNA, your genetic code.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #103 on: March 11, 2017, 07:16:07 pm »
And what will they get from that? DNA, your genetic code.

I think it's more about genome mapping than cloning, anyway.  Insurance companies are always looking for ways to improve their risk assessments, and I think the genome analysis is way too new to start drawing those kinds of conclusions.  I'd also note it's really expensive still, which would mean it's not worth it (yet).  I think employers and insurance companies are just trying to get their markers down, to see what people are willing to accept.  I rather doubt this is going to get a good reception.
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #104 on: March 11, 2017, 07:27:00 pm »
Cloning has not been taken to full term, actually not past very early stages with humans. Not to speak of, anyway. Think spare parts, with no rejection issues, and there are people who would gladly kill for them. If the 'person' (would a clone be considered a person?) never officially existed, is it still murder?

Good question.  When does the state of being "human" start and how?  Artificial insemination can start it artificially, but it is still a "human" and a person.  What other ways to create a human would qualify the product as a person?  Dunno.
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #105 on: March 11, 2017, 07:31:17 pm »
If some wanted to clone you they wouldn't need genetic testing, just a sample of your saliva or blood.

But....if (and note I said "if" ....duh)..... they (and by they I don't mean employers, I mean wacko NWO madmen somewhere) did want to try to clone someone, they wouldn't want to waste their time on cloning someone that might have 'bad genes' or some genetic defect.  They would want to find out as much about the genetic makeup of the subject as possible, logically, before going to the effort and expense.  Who knows?  But it's interesting to speculate on.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 07:31:56 pm by XenaLee »
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #106 on: March 11, 2017, 07:45:26 pm »
But....if (and note I said "if" ....duh)..... they (and by they I don't mean employers, I mean wacko NWO madmen somewhere) did want to try to clone someone, they wouldn't want to waste their time on cloning someone that might have 'bad genes' or some genetic defect.  They would want to find out as much about the genetic makeup of the subject as possible, logically, before going to the effort and expense.  Who knows?  But it's interesting to speculate on.

Good point.  One would think Quality Control is important to such an endeavor.  Hey, I saw Young Frankenstein...all that hard work and he ends up with a brain from Abbie Normal.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #107 on: March 11, 2017, 09:21:19 pm »
Good point.  One would think Quality Control is important to such an endeavor.  Hey, I saw Young Frankenstein...all that hard work and he ends up with a brain from Abbie Normal.
It's hard to get good help nowadays...
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #108 on: March 11, 2017, 09:32:10 pm »

I'm curious if anybody writing here, has experience with DNA testing for genealogy purposes?

Ancestry.com matches family for instance.  Other services do it as well.

23 and me.com specializes in medical issues, I believe.

DNA is widely used now, for law enforcement and criminal trial cases. DNA is used for paternity issues.

If an employee voluntarily allowed his DNA to be taken, would you allow the state to change a law later, to make his sample available to law enforcement for rape cases ?

In the OJ Simpson jury's case, it is said one juror stated "what about DNA? Everybody gots DNA."

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #109 on: March 11, 2017, 09:38:10 pm »
I'm curious if anybody writing here, has experience with DNA testing for genealogy purposes?

Ancestry.com matches family for instance.  Other services do it as well.

23 and me.com specializes in medical issues, I believe.

DNA is widely used now, for law enforcement and criminal trial cases. DNA is used for paternity issues.

If an employee voluntarily allowed his DNA to be taken, would you allow the state to change a law later, to make his sample available to law enforcement for rape cases ?

In the OJ Simpson jury's case, it is said one juror stated "what about DNA? Everybody gots DNA."
Considering things already supposed to be confidential or court 'sealed' end up in the news with amazing regularity, I would not count on anything being confidential, much less if there was a profit or "compelling public safety" motive behind that violation of confidentiality.

Like I have told three generations: "How many people does it take to keep a secret? One. Any more than that, and it isn't a secret."
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline txradioguy

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #110 on: March 12, 2017, 12:59:05 am »
I'm curious if anybody writing here, has experience with DNA testing for genealogy purposes?

Ancestry.com matches family for instance.  Other services do it as well.

23 and me.com specializes in medical issues, I believe.

DNA is widely used now, for law enforcement and criminal trial cases. DNA is used for paternity issues.

If an employee voluntarily allowed his DNA to be taken, would you allow the state to change a law later, to make his sample available to law enforcement for rape cases ?

In the OJ Simpson jury's case, it is said one juror stated "what about DNA? Everybody gots DNA."

The only experience I have with it is in relation to the Military. They've had mine on file since 1994.

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #111 on: March 12, 2017, 01:33:17 am »
The only experience I have with it is in relation to the Military. They've had mine on file since 1994.
Yeah, but that's (and no disrespect intended) so they can figure out who all is in the bag.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #112 on: March 12, 2017, 02:20:07 am »
I'm curious if anybody writing here, has experience with DNA testing for genealogy purposes?

Ancestry.com matches family for instance.  Other services do it as well.

23 and me.com specializes in medical issues, I believe.

DNA is widely used now, for law enforcement and criminal trial cases. DNA is used for paternity issues.

If an employee voluntarily allowed his DNA to be taken, would you allow the state to change a law later, to make his sample available to law enforcement for rape cases ?

In the OJ Simpson jury's case, it is said one juror stated "what about DNA? Everybody gots DNA."

My twin brother did the Ancestry one.  It was okay.  Gave the regional breakdown of our ancestry on a percentage basis.  We had no big surprises. 

I'm not a fan, though.
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #113 on: March 12, 2017, 01:13:17 pm »
t’s hard to imagine a more sensitive type of personal information than your own genetic blueprints. With varying degrees of accuracy, the four-base code can reveal bits of your family’s past, explain some of your current traits and health, and may provide a glimpse into your future with possible conditions and health problems you could face. And that information doesn’t just apply to you but potentially your blood relatives, too.

Most people would likely want to keep the results of genetic tests highly guarded—if they want their genetic code deciphered at all. But, as STAT reports, a new bill that is quietly moving through the House would allow companies to strong-arm their employees into taking genetic tests and then sharing that data with unregulated third parties as well as the employer. Employees that resist could face penalties of thousands of dollars.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/03/companies-want-employees-genetic-info-new-bill-lets-them-take-it-by-force/
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Offline MOD4

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #114 on: March 12, 2017, 01:27:24 pm »
Merged related threads.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #115 on: March 12, 2017, 02:57:16 pm »
The problem here is insurance.
It cannot be cheaper for someone else to pay your bills for you.

Secondarily, there is the problem of someone else paying for the insurance which shouldn't be there in the first place.

So not only is someone else paying your bills, someone else is paying someone else to pay your bills.

With freedom liberty comes responsibility.
Refuse the responsibility, lose the liberty.
In the end,it doesn't matter who you give that responsibility to, government or business. The result is inevitable:
Liberty lost.
End of story.

Online bigheadfred

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #116 on: March 12, 2017, 03:28:23 pm »
Dr. Bruce Lipton.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #117 on: March 12, 2017, 05:58:34 pm »
The problem here is insurance.
It cannot be cheaper for someone else to pay your bills for you.

Secondarily, there is the problem of someone else paying for the insurance which shouldn't be there in the first place.

So not only is someone else paying your bills, someone else is paying someone else to pay your bills.

With freedom liberty comes responsibility.
Refuse the responsibility, lose the liberty.
In the end,it doesn't matter who you give that responsibility to, government or business. The result is inevitable:
Liberty lost.
End of story.
The information will be used, not to discern whether the actuarial factors taken as a reason to charge more are mitigated by either personal behaviour or genetics, but applied to the gross statistics which were intended to find out who to charge more (not to give "discounts").
But beneath it all lies the question of 'Who owns you?"  Do you? Does the Government? Your employer?
There can be only one answer it there is to be Liberty.
The only time I asked the Government to pick up the tab for my health care, they refused. Now, they want to force me to take it or pay not to. That's wrong.
I'm self-employed, for what that's worth at the present, that leaves it on me to decide what health insurance or care I will offer me.
Again, the government can keep out. If they fine my employer, they fine me. They attack the fundamental building block of small business, where the fundamental innovations and discoveries have been made that brought us most of the way here.  That path leads to stagnation, the death of a Capitalistic system.

Leave health care decisions up to the employee...before some jackass in HR or HS&E is telling some guy who works on the shop floor on his feet all day that he has to go spend 30 minutes on a treadmill after work.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #118 on: March 12, 2017, 06:28:05 pm »
Leave health care decisions up to the employee...before some jackass in HR or HS&E is telling some guy who works on the shop floor on his feet all day that he has to go spend 30 minutes on a treadmill after work.

 :amen:
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #119 on: March 12, 2017, 10:09:01 pm »
Yeah, but that's (and no disrespect intended) so they can figure out who all is in the bag.

There are ways that havingy DNA in a federal data base could be used without my being splattered across these blast radius of an IED.

It's something I've always worried about.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #120 on: March 12, 2017, 11:38:41 pm »
There are ways that havingy DNA in a federal data base could be used without my being splattered across these blast radius of an IED.

It's something I've always worried about.
Despite it being one of the better reasons to collect the data, that's true.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #121 on: March 12, 2017, 11:58:48 pm »
There are ways that havingy DNA in a federal data base could be used without my being splattered across these blast radius of an IED.

It's something I've always worried about.

We worry about it too, TRG.  We have a few Members who are Active Service, and we always start saying prayers when they get deployed.  Thank you so very much for your service, Tex.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #122 on: March 13, 2017, 03:50:30 pm »
Note to Board administrator:  We really, really need a "rolleyes" smiley.
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Offline anubias

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #123 on: March 13, 2017, 08:16:03 pm »
Quote
Say your employer wants you to get a genetic test. You politely decline because you consider it a gross infringement of privacy. Well, too bad—your monthly health insurance payments just spiked 30%.
This could be the reality under HR 1313, the Preserving Employee Wellness Programs Act, a House GOP-sponsored bill that would essentially allow companies with workplace wellness programs to demand your genetic information (or force you to pay a big penalty).
The legislation has now passed a House committee on a straight party line vote, reports STAT News, with all 22 Republicans unified in support against 17 Democratic detractors. The bill is expected to be latched on to a second Obamacare-related legislative effort that will be a followup to the main GOP health care plan now working its way through Congress.

http://fortune.com/2017/03/10/genetic-testing-workplace-wellness-bill/

I posted this in politics as it makes the Republicans appear Orwellian.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: It Might Soon Be Legal for Employers to Force You Into a Genetic Test
« Reply #124 on: March 13, 2017, 08:21:10 pm »
Nothing Orwellian about this.  It's quite benign.   It's a clarification of existing law intended to assure employers that they can include as part of a workplace wellness program a health risk assessment that asks questions about family medical history.   Completing an HRA would continue to be voluntary, and the information would be solicited in connection with an ERISA group health plan (that is, the reward would take the form of a discount in the group medical premium).  That keeps the information confidential so it cannot be used for employment purposes by the employer.   
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