Is GOP Health Care Bill a Disaster? No (This explains it)

[Sanguine]

As if there is a difference these days?

And no, I'm not talking 'classical Liberalism' in the vein of The Enlightenment.

I know you weren't.  I just hate the co-opting of the term and refuse to participate.

[Hoodat]

@Suppressed

I take it you oppose FEMA and federal disaster assistance.

Yes.  Not a function of the Federal government.

People seem fine dumping costs of care involuntarily onto hospitals.

Which is why I vehemently oppose the Federal Government regulations that make that possible.  Again, get the Federal government the hell out of the healthcare industry.

Where is the morality in that?

There isn't any morality in that.  Which is again why I oppose federal government intervention of any kind in our healthcare market.

I might not agree with @Jazzhead on many things, but it's disturbing that some on the thread can't see that he brings up valid concerns.

Jazzhead offered up a false narrative.  I called him on it.  I don't have respect for anyone who doesn't respect truth.

And while his concern may be valid,  the validity of that concern does not automatically validate the solution being proposed.  And to insinuate that someone questioning that validity that they must want people to die in the street is downright dishonest.  Capisce?

[Hoodat]

And  how does a governmental prohibition on abortion not effectively coerce women to reproduce?

A government prohibition on abortion does not make women pregnant.

[INVAR]

It is hardly controversial that there are several strands of conservatism.   

You possess NONE of those strands.  All of your 'strands' are talking points right out of the DNC.

It is simply untrue that all conservative must be social conservatives.

You are not any kind of a Conservative at all based on your Liberal Leftism you keep revealing despite your insistences you are a Goldwater/Reagan Conservative - which you are not.

Religion - a form of tribalism - has never been especially compatible with individual liberty.

You are also revealed to be WHOLLY IGNORANT (willfully so) of the Founders and the necessity of Religion in order to preserve the individual liberty you only pay lip service to.

"[T]he only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be aid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.  Without religion, I believe that learning does real mischief to the morals and principles of mankind."  - Benjamin Rush, Signer - Declaration of Independence.

[Norm Lenhart]

I know you weren't.  I just hate the co-opting of the term and refuse to participate.

I don' blame you. But like "Gay" and "Conservative", the left has rewritten words an meanings. They have been co-opted and will never be the same again. It sucks, but today, EDIT: LEFTISM, liberal and Liberalism are interchangeable.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

You are not any kind of a Conservative at all based on your Liberal Leftism you keep revealing despite your insistences you are a Goldwater/Reagan Conservative - which you are not.

Translation: if you do not agree with me then you aren't a true conservative.


 

[INVAR]

I know you weren't.  I just hate the co-opting of the term and refuse to participate.

I respect that.

Unfortunately the majority only know the term Liberalism as the Socialist/Marxist/Maoist claptrap force-fed society as the neo-moralism for the last 60 years plus.  They have no idea who Locke or Montesquieu were.

[Suppressed]

So, while I do think that the feds have a place in emergencies like helping with rescue efforts and such, no, I don't think individuals should receive taxpayers money for personal losses.

Federally funded rescue efforts are "involuntary charity" (as is flood insurance offered at below-market rates).

[INVAR]

Translation: if you do not agree with me then you aren't a true conservative.

I you do not agree with the principles of Conservatism which the majority of us espouse on this board, and instead promote the principles of Leftism, Socialism, Maoism and Liberal Statism combined with hedonistic moral anarchy and wickedness, then no - you are not a true Conservative.

I don't care what kind of clothes they dress up in to self-identify as one.  They aren't.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I you do not agree with the principles of Conservatism which the majority of us espouse on this board, and instead promote the principles of Leftism, Socialism, Maoism and Liberal Statism combined with hedonistic moral anarchy and wickedness, then no - you are not a true Conservative.

I don't care what kind of clothes they dress up in to self-identify as one.  They aren't.

Succumb to the groupthink or ye will be cast out, heathen!

[SirLinksALot]

A government prohibition on abortion does not make women pregnant.

Let's be clear, there is currently NO PROHIBITION OF ABORTION. What the Trump administration is trying to do ( which they have already done when disbursing money for overseas aid ) is to STOP USING TAX PAYER MONEY FROM FUNDING ABORTION.

I see nothing wrong with a policy that states -- If you want your healthcare provider to cover potential abortions, Pay for it with your premiums.

[Norm Lenhart]

I you do not agree with the principles of Conservatism which the majority of us espouse on this board, and instead promote the principles of Leftism, Socialism, Maoism and Liberal Statism combined with hedonistic moral anarchy and wickedness, then no - you are not a true Conservative.

I don't care what kind of clothes they dress up in to self-identify as one.  They aren't.

Isn't it funny that we are somehow 'bad' for identifying liberalism for what it is based on actual conservative principles and positions, yet someone can arbitrarily deem us so, based only on their personal opinions? And others are supposed to take that 'logic' seriously?

[Sanguine]

Succumb to the groupthink or ye will be cast out, heathen!

And, who's been cast out, WTF?  Your presence here gives the lie to your statement.

[INVAR]

Succumb to the groupthink or ye will be cast out, heathen!

Last I looked, the Mods do not ban people for expressing ideas contrary to the majority of the community of Conservatives here.

That also does not prohibit us from calling people out on their Liberalism/Leftism and Statism when they espouse it.

[kevindavis007]

That's not the point.  Full repeal isn't possible - the votes aren't there.   A conservative martyr is a conservative fool.   What CAN be achieved are changes that end the mandates,  expand choices, lower costs, curb the subsidies in favor of tax credits and other changes that encourage consumerism,  allow insurance market to punish free riders,  and provide far more affordability for "average" Americans than the ACA.

That's incremental progress.   It beats martyrdom, and it sure beats the ACA.

^^^^ Truth ^^^^

[kevindavis007]

They don't seem to get that The Left compromised when it was their turn. We got Obamacare, not single-payer.  But instead of tearing each other apart, they took what they could get through all their Senators, recognizing that a party majority doesn't mean a wholly ideologically extreme one.

Somehow Compromise is dirty word.. It isn't..

[Right_in_Virginia]

Step 2 is done by Secretary Price with EOs---reversing all the EOs by his predecessors.

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 23m23 minutes ago More
Despite what you hear in the press, healthcare is coming along great. We are talking to many groups and it will end in a beautiful picture!

Charlie Spiering‏Verified account @charliespiering 25m25 minutes ago More
Privately, Trump says second healthcare bill ready as early as next week reports @gabriellahope_ and @sarahcwestwood

[Right_in_Virginia]

Other avenues as discussed in the article (https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/03/07/why-obamacare-cannot-simply-be-repealed/ ): 







Anyone have an Option 4?

[Norm Lenhart]

Somehow Compromise is dirty word.. It isn't..

It absolutely is when you were elected toand PROMISED to repeal. Not to compromise.

[endicom]

Somehow Compromise is dirty word.. It isn't..

In this case it is a very dirty word because there was no compromise. In a compromise each party gets something. In the case of ACA, just one party got something.

@Suppressed

[XenaLee]

It absolutely is when you were elected toand PROMISED to repeal. Not to compromise.

And unfortunately..... most on the left, and many on the (supposedly) right translate compromise to mean capitulate.

[Right_in_Virginia]

It absolutely is when you were elected toand PROMISED to repeal. Not to compromise.

The promise is to repeal and replace.  The replace will require 60 votes in the Senate ... so there will be negotiations.

[Suppressed]

It absolutely is when you were elected toand PROMISED to repeal. Not to compromise.

Collins and Murkowski promised that?

[Suppressed]

In this case it is a very dirty word because there was no compromise. In a compromise each party gets something. In the case of ACA, just one party got something.

Only one party, but the point is, it's not just about parties.  The Left compromised and went along with the left-moderate Obamacare.  They didn't get their single-payer, because not all Dems would go for it.  They know how to get a win, even if it's not all they wanted.

Some conservatives are pretending they won the Senate.  No, they didn't win the Senate and should stop fooling themselves.  The GOP won, but conservatives have failed to get enough conservatives in there for a complete repeal.

And unlike the Left, they seem eager to grab a loss rather than a partial victory.

[INVAR]

I marvel at these discussions whereby the impassioned pleas to incrementally slow the tyrannical imposition of big government reaches deafening levels of argumentation for the need for us plebes to support the push for compromise and to be grateful for the small breadcrumbs of lost liberty tossed our way to placate our outrage.

And still tyranny marches on to bigger, and grander strokes of despotism that this people reason among themselves is not tyranny but rather freedom.  Freedom they argue is still here because they have acquired an exemption, a loophole, a work-around to the imposition of statism to negatively affect their wealth, positions or property.  They think themselves clever and ahead of the masses who are stuck with burden and regulation via bureaucrats they have never heard of.

Always after the imposition of tyranny via 'legal means' , the efforts to stop and derail it are labelled as 'martyrs/obstructionists/pie-in-the-sky-dreamers' - yet these label-stickers are the same people who voted for the empty promise of a wall, deportation of illegals and MAGA via deconstructing the Socialist State that they now insist we must compromise with and dial-back the zeal for repeal or defunding.

If it isn't clear by now, it will never be clear to you.  The 'Deep State'/Obama's Marxist tyranny, the Establishment Oligarchy and all the Big Government impositions that you thought were going to be made gone under Trump and a GOP controlled House and Senate, are here to stay and will be reinforced with another layer of compromise you are all being told you must swallow or get nothing.

You're all good Soviets now, but keep lying to yourselves that you live in a Representative Republic.