Author Topic: Freedom Caucus balks at Republican leadership's Obamacare replacement  (Read 16193 times)

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Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/freedom-caucus-balks-at-republican-leaderships-obamacare-replacement/article/2616632#.WL40_ZZAn2s.twitter


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The House Freedom Caucus came to Congress to do two things: chew
bubblegum and obstruct legislation handed down from the speaker's office.
And they've been out of bubblegum since before Donald Trump
(/section/donaldĀ­trump) became a candidate for president.
Right after Republican leadership released the text of the Obamacare repeal
package late Monday evening, several members of the cantankerous
conservative group reiterated to the Washington Examiner that nothing has
changed.

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Is this the same 'Freedom Caucus" that elected RINOs to lead them? Pardon me if I question their devotion to the cause.

Offline DB

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Is this the same 'Freedom Caucus" that elected RINOs to lead them? Pardon me if I question their devotion to the cause.

I don't really know anything about this guy but from this he looks pretty conservative to me. Of course RINO these days doesn't mean much. What is a Republican these days? Fewer and fewer actual conservatives are Republicans due to the party swinging further and further populist/left.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Meadows_(North_Carolina_politician)


Offline LonestarDream

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Is this the same 'Freedom Caucus" that elected RINOs to lead them? Pardon me if I question their devotion to the cause.

There are good ones in there like Dave Brat.  Hopefully, they can come up with a plan that removes the mandate and taxes and weans the subsidies . 

Getting rid of the the mandate in its current form would moot the damage that John Roberts did.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 01:01:47 pm by LonestarDream »
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Offline Jazzhead

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There are good ones in there like Dave Brat.  Hopefully, they can come up with a plan that removes the mandate and taxes and weans the subsidies . 

Getting rid of the the mandate in its current form would moot the damage that John Roberts did.

The House proposal DOES get rid of the mandates and weans the subsidies.   Of course, that likely won't be enough for the Freedom Caucus,  and that will effectively force the proposal to move to the center/left to pick up the votes that the FC will deny the bill.   

The individual mandate was perhaps the least offensive aspect of the ACA, and its symbolic power to the TEA party right has always puzzled me.   (The employer mandate, which it appears will also be scrapped under the House proposal,  really did cost jobs and constrained economic growth.   I have always supported the individual mandate as sound policy to expand the insurance pool;  heck,  I supported it back in the seventies.)

The Freedom Caucus is betting that the Dems won't help pass a reform bill, thereby permitting the ACA to die of its own weight.   Of course,  when anything dies of its own weight,  the demise is painful and the recriminations will be felt by the politicians who are perceived as having allowed the pain to occur.    So the GOP is now faced with three basic scenarios going forward:

   -  Pass a unified reform bill that includes the support of the FC.    That seems, well,  extraordinarily difficult given the reality that FC members, safe in their gerrymandered districts populated by social conservatives, are unlikely to sign on to anything resembling an actual fix.   
 
   - Pass a bipartisan reform bill,  jettisoning the FC but moving left to pick up the support of some Democrats.  This would ordinarily be the most likely scenario - it's certainly the way things used to get done.   But the Dems want the GOP to own this tar-baby,  and their leadership will likely lean hard on more moderate Dems to screw the GOP over, much as the GOP refused to assist in the crafting of ObamaCare (even as that bill adopted the individual mandate that was originally proposed by conservatives in the seventies.)   The Dems know that they'll be rewarded for successful obstruction,  just as the GOP was during the Obama years.   

   - Fail to pass legislation,  with the ACA remaining on life support.   Here,  the Trump administration will play a role, since the legislation punted on a number of matters to the bureaucracy to craft regulations.  Those regulations can bring some relief, but the job-killing mandates won't go away unless the law is changed.  This is the scenario which is most fraught with electoral peril.   If the GOP can't fix the ACA,  the spectre of a Dem takeover as early as 2018 looms.   Don't forget that the American people know full well that Republicans control both the Presidency and the Congress.  Results are expected, and results are what counts,  and a lack of results will be duly punished.         
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 01:30:21 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Norm Lenhart

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I have always supported the individual mandate as sound policy to expand the insurance pool;  heck,  I supported it back in the seventies.)

As did all liberals.

Offline txradioguy

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The individual mandate was perhaps the least offensive aspect of the ACA, and its symbolic power to the TEA party right has always puzzled me.   (The employer mandate, which it appears will also be scrapped under the House proposal,  really did cost jobs and constrained economic growth.   I have always supported the individual mandate as sound policy to expand the insurance pool;  heck,  I supported it back in the seventies.)

That's because in cases like this...you have no problem with the Federal Government forcing someone to buy something they don't want or need.

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Jazzhead

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As did all liberals.

The individual mandate was the brainchild of conservative intellectuals in the seventies.   Remember Jack Kemp and folks like him?  What's changed in the intervening years is the rise of the TEA party and social conservatism,  the former rooted in anti-government nihilism and the other rooted in "Christian" selfishness and cruelty toward the less fortunate.   

I know full well why you cannot accept my brand of conservatism - it is of another time.  I'll soon be dead and gone, Norm, and your brand of brain-dead conservatism will be ascendant.  But in the meantime,  I'll keep speaking up for my values and those of my movement compadres that spawned Goldwater, Kemp and Reagan.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Jazzhead

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That's because in cases like this...you have no problem with the Federal Government forcing someone to buy something they don't want or need.

Yep. Brain-dead conservatism.  It's what's for breakfast these days.   

Don't worry, txradioguy, conservatives like me aren't getting any younger. 
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline txradioguy

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The individual mandate was the brainchild of conservative intellectuals in the seventies.   Remember Jack Kemp and folks like him?  What's changed in the intervening years is the rise of the TEA party and social conservatism,  the former rooted in anti-government nihilism and the other rooted in "Christian" selfishness and cruelty toward the less fortunate.

And those same people came to realize that it was a bad idea and rejected it.   Trying to tie the individual mandate we have now to Conservatives is a liberal ploy and tactic.  Well done.

And again...you and your strange obsession with falsely tying religion to everything bad with Conservatism...it's a false narrative that needs to stop.

Your incessant bashing of Christians...of which there are a LOT on this board...is Exhibit A of why you don't find a religion section on TBR.

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I know full well why you cannot accept my brand of conservatism - it is of another time.  I'll soon be dead and gone, Norm, and your brand of brain-dead conservatism will be ascendant. 

You'd have to be Conservative for us to either reject or accept your "brand"...and quite honestly there is no "brand" of Conservatism...you either are or you aren't.

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But in the meantime,  I'll keep speaking up for my values and those of my movement compadres that spawned Goldwater, Kemp and Reagan.   

Your "values" are nowhere near those of the people you mentioned.
[/quote]
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Norm Lenhart

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The individual mandate was the brainchild of conservative intellectuals in the seventies.   Remember Jack Kemp and folks like him?  What's changed in the intervening years is the rise of the TEA party and social conservatism,  the former rooted in anti-government nihilism and the other rooted in "Christian" selfishness and cruelty toward the less fortunate.   

I know full well why you cannot accept my brand of conservatism - it is of another time.  I'll soon be dead and gone, Norm, and your brand of brain-dead conservatism will be ascendant.  But in the meantime,  I'll keep speaking up for my values and those of my movement compadres that spawned Goldwater, Kemp and Reagan.   

Your 'brand' has nothing to do with conservatism. Mandates are not conservative. Legalized abortion is not conservative. Placing Islam and sharia as an equal anything in America is not conservative. Anti 2A positions are not conservative. Naturally actual conservatism seems brain dead to you. You promote liberal goals more often than not.

Please do keep speaking up. It just shows everything wrong with the Right today and provides us with a glowing example of what we need to purge.

Offline txradioguy

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Yep. Brain-dead conservatism.  It's what's for breakfast these days.

Well...stop being brain dead.  It's unconstitutional to force someone to buy something they don't want or need or have no use for.

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Don't worry, txradioguy, conservatives like me aren't getting any younger.

Neither am I...but I'm not going to force you or my kids or anyone else for that matter to pay for my healthcare.

Oh and "Conservatives" like you...are known as Liberals to the general public.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline LonestarDream

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The individual and employer mandates are pernicious and VERY offensive to liberty.   Either implosion of the current bill or repeal or replace are better than the status quo. 

If Hillary had been elected, we would be look at more taxes and subsidies to 'save' Obamacare.

The individual mandate was perhaps the least offensive aspect of the ACA, and its symbolic power to the TEA party right has always puzzled me.   (The employer mandate, which it appears will also be scrapped under the House proposal,  really did cost jobs and constrained economic growth.   I have always supported the individual mandate as sound policy to expand the insurance pool;  heck,  I supported it back in the seventies.)


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Offline txradioguy

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The individual and employer mandates are pernicious and VERY offensive to liberty.   

Nailed it.

Honestly...the "replacement" for the ACA needs to be one page and a handful of sentences that says From (insert date) forward, the ACA is repealed and healthcare laws and requirements prior to March 2010 are hereby reinstated.  Any changes to current healthcare laws from this point forward are left to the state legislatures to work out per the wishes of their citizens.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline LonestarDream

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I agree with on the subject matter but it is not necessary to insult members over this issue.

Perhaps your thinking is eschew, since you are agreeing with me.   :smokin:

@DiogenesLamp
@don-o

Well...stop being brain dead. 
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Offline LonestarDream

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[Jazzhead's profane insult removed by Mod2]

Anddd .  The retaliation ....
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 01:54:55 pm by Mod2 »
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Offline txradioguy

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I agree with on the subject matter but it is not necessary to insult members over this issue.

Perhaps your thinking is eschew, since you are agreeing with me.   :smokin:

@DiogenesLamp
@don-o

Not sure why you feel the need to call in back up.

Look when you're right...I'll agree with you...when your not...well...

How about just be happy we're in agreement on something instead of trying to stir the pot for your own reasons.

Enjoy the moment.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline LonestarDream

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Nailed it.

Honestly...the "replacement" for the ACA needs to be one page and a handful of sentences that says From (insert date) forward, the ACA is repealed and healthcare laws and requirements prior to March 2010 are hereby reinstated.  Any changes to current healthcare laws from this point forward are left to the state legislatures to work out per the wishes of their citizens.

Gosh I wish this could be.  I use the term 'wean' of the subsidies advisedly, because of fear of the backlash leads us to TOTAL single payer.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 01:53:10 pm by LonestarDream »
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Offline txradioguy

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Anddd .  The retaliation ....

That's mild from JH.  See he's a real Conservative and myself and @Norm Lenhart  and a few others...we're all just religious bigots pretending to be Conservative.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline LonestarDream

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Not trying to stir the pot.  Just the opposite. 

DL is concerned about liberty issues and Don and I want to see this board do well and grow membership and participation.



Not sure why you feel the need to call in back up.

Look when you're right...I'll agree with you...when your not...well...

How about just be happy we're in agreement on something instead of trying to stir the pot for your own reasons.

Enjoy the moment.
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Offline Mod2

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Let's get back on topic, shall we?

Offline Norm Lenhart

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That's mild from JH.  See he's a real Conservative and myself and @Norm Lenhart  and a few others...we're all just religious bigots pretending to be Conservative.

Ahem..."Genocidal" bigots if you don't mind. I have standards to maintain. I am also a homophobe.

Offline LonestarDream

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That's mild from JH.  See he's a real Conservative and myself and @Norm Lenhart  and a few others...we're all just religious bigots pretending to be Conservative.

In the year or so I have been here, never recall JH cursing.  Not that his politics are to the right of mine.
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Offline Norm Lenhart

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In the year or so I have been here, never recall JH cursing.  Not that his politics are to the right of mine.

Oh yea. He does that from time to time.

Offline Jazzhead

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In the year or so I have been here, never recall JH cursing.  Not that his politics are to the right of mine.

I deleted the post,  LD.  Sorry about that - I'm in a dark mood this morning.  Even substantive posts are met with harassment - and the mods' censure goes only one way.     
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 02:05:13 pm by Jazzhead »
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide