Author Topic: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare  (Read 6922 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Silver Pines

  • Guest
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #100 on: March 07, 2017, 05:21:17 pm »
Just turned on Limbaugh for the first time in, I don't know, a year and a half to see whether he was trying to defend this mess.

He isn't even talking about it.  He's rambling about the Deep State, and Trump, and how he has secret people in the DS who really support him, etc.

Offline XenaLee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,398
  • Gender: Female
  • Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #101 on: March 07, 2017, 05:30:17 pm »
Just turned on Limbaugh for the first time in, I don't know, a year and a half to see whether he was trying to defend this mess.

He isn't even talking about it.  He's rambling about the Deep State, and Trump, and how he has secret people in the DS who really support him, etc.

You must be listening to an archival broadcast from a distant planet.  I'm hearing him address 'this mess' today.... and it's only 30 minutes into the show.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #102 on: March 07, 2017, 05:39:24 pm »
Insurance is not goods...it's a service.  It's an option.  And it's not one that people should be forced to buy.  The use of the Commerce clause in this instance is a faulty application.


The Commerce clause extends to interstate commerce in services as well as goods.   (Although I'd argue that pre-paid protection against future risks - that is, insurance - in essence is a good, as that term is defined for legal purposes.) 
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Silver Pines

  • Guest
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #103 on: March 07, 2017, 05:43:53 pm »
You must be listening to an archival broadcast from a distant planet.  I'm hearing him address 'this mess' today.... and it's only 30 minutes into the show.

No, @XenaLee, I'm pretty sure I'm on the same planet as you.

Turned him back on and he was still Deep Stating.  But whatever.  Good that he's bringing it up.

Silver Pines

  • Guest
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #104 on: March 07, 2017, 05:54:23 pm »
Mike Lee statement on health care plan:

https://www.lee.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=press-releases&id=CA7B524E-81D4-4D09-AA99-E50C874865AB


Also, I just saw this on Twitter:


Patrick Svitek‏Verified account @PatrickSvitek  3h3 hours ago

 Unless I'm missing something, Cruz has been quiet on Obamacare repeal bill. He's not currently set to appear w/ Lee & Paul at presser later.


This brings to mind something Dana Loesch said yesterday, which is that Ted Cruz will probably not push too hard against the bill because he's up for re-election next year.  She said that Lee and Paul are safe for a few more years, but she warned that Cruz may not join in as much as we would expect.

Will be interesting to see if that happens, or not...

Offline XenaLee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,398
  • Gender: Female
  • Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #105 on: March 07, 2017, 05:56:45 pm »
No, @XenaLee, I'm pretty sure I'm on the same planet as you.

Turned him back on and he was still Deep Stating.  But whatever.  Good that he's bringing it up.

Perhaps.... it's just that he is not saying what you want to hear him say.   :shrug:
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #106 on: March 07, 2017, 05:58:16 pm »
Just read the House official summary of the bill and it looks like a real improvement over the ACA.   The late change - apparently at Trump's urging - it that the refundable tax credits wear away on the basis of income as well as age - a change that drastically improves financing for the credits but creates a potential issue for TEA partiers, because the IRS will still need to verify income eligibility for the credits.  But it seems to me that could be addressed by basing the credits on age alone without regard to income - and then requiring folks with higher incomes to be taxed on the value of health coverage provided by their employers.  That strikes me as an equitable trade-off to appease the anti-IRSers.   

The anti-abortion provisions in the Act are truly stupid - they are a poison pill guaranteed to prevent any Democratic support.  And that means that the GOP has no room for error - it must hold its caucus together.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Silver Pines

  • Guest
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #107 on: March 07, 2017, 06:03:05 pm »
Perhaps.... it's just that he is not saying what you want to hear him say.   :shrug:

@XenaLee

I don't give a crap what he says, actually. 

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #108 on: March 07, 2017, 06:10:21 pm »
The Commerce clause extends to interstate commerce in services as well as goods.   (Although I'd argue that pre-paid protection against future risks - that is, insurance - in essence is a good, as that term is defined for legal purposes.)

Insurance is a service...and in most cases an optional service.

Do you want to be forced to buy a certain type of soda?  What if you don't even drink soda?  By the reasoning going on about this the Government can force you to buy soda even if you don't want to...according to some here the Government is perfectly within it's right to force you to buy a Parka or a ski suit even if you live in Florida.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #109 on: March 07, 2017, 06:24:18 pm »
So let's see if all this chatter about Healthcare falling under the auspices of the Commerce Clause stands up to the Pike Test from Pike v Bruce Church Inc.

1.The statute must have a “legitimate” and “public” purpose. It must be within the state’s police power, and not designed either to regulate interstate commerce as such, or to discriminate against out-of-state economic interests in favor of private in-state interests.

2.The effect on interstate commerce must be “incidental,” rather than the primary purpose of the statute.

3.The interest must be “local.” It must regulate elements that are peculiar to the state, such as its harbors, and not impose a pattern of “multiple inconsistent burdens” with other states’ conflicting laws on an interstate enterprise.

4.The statute must “regulate evenhandedly.” The state must be regulating an activity as part of its police powers. If it is only a “market participant” similar to a private entity, the dormant Commerce Clause is not a bar to its economic decisions even if they impact or discriminate against interstate commerce, though the Privileges and Immunities Clause of Article IV may be a constraint. Moreover, if a state is, in fact, regulating even in the pursuit of a legitimate interest, the state may not discriminate against out-of-staters, absent compelling reasons.

5.The statute must “effectuate” its local public interest. If there is little evidence of such a result, the court may infer that the interstate impact was intentional and hence unconstitutional, after all.


The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #110 on: March 07, 2017, 06:25:59 pm »
Insurance is a service...and in most cases an optional service.

Do you want to be forced to buy a certain type of soda?  What if you don't even drink soda?  By the reasoning going on about this the Government can force you to buy soda even if you don't want to...according to some here the Government is perfectly within it's right to force you to buy a Parka or a ski suit even if you live in Florida.

WTF said it well earlier today - you can't guarantee insurance for pre-existing conditions without requiring that a penalty be extracted from free riders.   You want something for nothing - and it doesn't work that way.   

The new bill takes a new direction -  those who fail to maintain coverage for more than two months can be charged 30% more for insurance when they decide they are sick and want the rest of us to pay for them.  I don't think that's punitive enough - nor will it do enough to lower insurance rates for those of us who play by the rules. 

I'm getting to the point where I'm beginning to think that hospitals should be insulated from litigation for denying service to non-paying free riders.  Let the churches extend charity to these selfish arseholes.     
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,570
  • Gender: Female
  • WE are NOT ok!
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #111 on: March 07, 2017, 06:35:11 pm »
Mike Lee statement on health care plan:

https://www.lee.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=press-releases&id=CA7B524E-81D4-4D09-AA99-E50C874865AB


Also, I just saw this on Twitter:


Patrick Svitek‏Verified account @PatrickSvitek  3h3 hours ago

 Unless I'm missing something, Cruz has been quiet on Obamacare repeal bill. He's not currently set to appear w/ Lee & Paul at presser later.


This brings to mind something Dana Loesch said yesterday, which is that Ted Cruz will probably not push too hard against the bill because he's up for re-election next year.  She said that Lee and Paul are safe for a few more years, but she warned that Cruz may not join in as much as we would expect.

Will be interesting to see if that happens, or not...

IMHO Cruz is probably quiet on this because he himself had laid out a healthcare plan to replace Bammycare .... looks like his plan was side stepped.
I Believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.  I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey its laws to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,295
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #112 on: March 07, 2017, 06:35:37 pm »
@XenaLee

I don't give a crap what he says, actually.


After 1 he started talking about it, and criticizing it heavily. I thought his criticisms were on the mark. Didn't mention that Trump likes the bill though.


That being said... this might be the best we can do. Or just let it fail.

Offline XenaLee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,398
  • Gender: Female
  • Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #113 on: March 07, 2017, 06:41:13 pm »
@XenaLee

I don't give a crap what he says, actually.

Then.... why did you tune in?  Why did you even bring it up?    :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,570
  • Gender: Female
  • WE are NOT ok!
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #114 on: March 07, 2017, 06:41:30 pm »
Mike Lee statement on health care plan:

https://www.lee.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=press-releases&id=CA7B524E-81D4-4D09-AA99-E50C874865AB


Also, I just saw this on Twitter:


Patrick Svitek‏Verified account @PatrickSvitek  3h3 hours ago

 Unless I'm missing something, Cruz has been quiet on Obamacare repeal bill. He's not currently set to appear w/ Lee & Paul at presser later.


This brings to mind something Dana Loesch said yesterday, which is that Ted Cruz will probably not push too hard against the bill because he's up for re-election next year.  She said that Lee and Paul are safe for a few more years, but she warned that Cruz may not join in as much as we would expect.

Will be interesting to see if that happens, or not...

I side with Lee on this ... the GOP has missed the mark.  It seems both Paul's plan and Cruz's plan weren't even considered. 

If this passes and it is found to be less than what people were told or falls short ... it will cost the GOP seats in both the Senate and the House.
I Believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.  I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey its laws to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies.

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #115 on: March 07, 2017, 06:42:38 pm »
WTF said it well earlier today - you can't guarantee insurance for pre-existing conditions without requiring that a penalty be extracted from free riders.   You want something for nothing - and it doesn't work that way.

You are the one wanting something for nothing...that remark was directed at you IMO.

Not the Government's job to force that on anyone...should be a negotiation between the insurance company and the individual.

As for the number of people unable to get insurance because of pre-existing conditions...it's roughly 500,000 out of 320 million people in the U.S.

Are you seriously saying we should bankrupt the nation...turn over roughly 1/7th of the economy to the Feds for what amounts to the population of Toledo, Ohio?

That's lunacy.   

Quote
The new bill takes a new direction -  those who fail to maintain coverage for more than two months can be charged 30% more for insurance when they decide they are sick and want the rest of us to pay for them.  I don't think that's punitive enough - nor will it do enough to lower insurance rates for those of us who play by the rules.


The new bill puts lipstick on the pig that is/was the old bill.  The GOP is doing nothing but rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Insurance rates will go down for two reasons...1) competition...which means more insurance agencies out there vying for your business...something that's not going to happen under any bill proposed right now by either party and 2) tort reform.

Why are you all in favor of forcing someone...with the weight of the Federal government acting like the proverbial gun to a citizens head...to buy something they don't want?  And before you say you're not...that's exactly what making people...no forcing people...to buy health insurance they don't want/need/afford is doing.  New bill...old bill the forcing of someone to do something...spend money for something against their will is still the same.

Not a very Conservative viewpoint I might add.

Quote
I'm getting to the point where I'm beginning to think that hospitals should be insulated from litigation for denying service to non-paying free riders.  Let the churches extend charity to these selfish arseholes.   

So let me get this straight...if a 23 y/o college student in good health...single...just starting out on their own makes the personal choice to not buy health insurance...he or she is being selfish?  Seriously?

It's already against the law for hospitals to refuse service to someone needing care genius.

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,295
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #116 on: March 07, 2017, 06:43:10 pm »
I side with Lee on this ... the GOP has missed the mark.  It seems both Paul's plan and Cruz's plan weren't even considered. 

If this passes and it is found to be less than what people were told or falls short ... it will cost the GOP seats in both the Senate and the House.


Spicer has two stacks of paper on his press conference, to show the size of this bill and the ACA (presumably) so I'd say the Trump Administration is all in on this one.


« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 06:43:33 pm by Weird Tolkienish Figure »

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,405
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #117 on: March 07, 2017, 06:46:49 pm »
I side with Lee on this ... the GOP has missed the mark.  It seems both Paul's plan and Cruz's plan weren't even considered. 

If this passes and it is found to be less than what people were told or falls short ... it will cost the GOP seats in both the Senate and the House.

They missed by a mile IMHO!  The bill should read in Toto:  "The Affordable Care ACT of 2009 is hereby repealed effective immediately!"  If they feel they need to do more then pass the bill(s) that accomplishes that!
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 06:48:17 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #118 on: March 07, 2017, 06:52:51 pm »
They missed by a mile IMHO!  The bill should read in Toto:  "The Affordable Care ACT of 2009 is hereby repealed effective immediately!"  If they feel they need to do more then pass the bill(s) that accomplishes that!

QFT
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,405
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #119 on: March 07, 2017, 06:58:31 pm »
QFT

Too much to ask from what currently passes for "republican leadership"!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #120 on: March 07, 2017, 07:01:31 pm »
Too much to ask from what currently passes for "republican leadership"!

Once again they are of the foolish opinion that they can manage the disaster better than the Dems instead of just eliminating the disaster completely.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,717
  • Gender: Male
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #121 on: March 07, 2017, 07:02:31 pm »

Spicer has two stacks of paper on his press conference, to show the size of this bill and the ACA (presumably) so I'd say the Trump Administration is all in on this one.




The visual effect is lost when you consider that one doesn't replace the other, it augments it.

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #122 on: March 07, 2017, 07:04:29 pm »
They missed by a mile IMHO!  The bill should read in Toto:  "The Affordable Care ACT of 2009 is hereby repealed effective immediately!"  If they feel they need to do more then pass the bill(s) that accomplishes that!

We told everyone that the GOP and Trump are absolutely no different than the Liberal Democrats  and BOTH Party Leaderships WANT ObamaCare and Government control of healthcare and that they would take Kabuki Theater up to Academy Award territory to fool as many people into believing that they *tried* to get rid of it.

So now the GOP and Conservatives will be forever tainted with the belief-become-fact that ObamaCare and it's designed failure is all their doing.

It's what happens when the people want to continue practicing insanity because they are convinced their dear leader is better than the other guy's dear leader.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,405
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #123 on: March 07, 2017, 07:04:42 pm »
Once again they are of the foolish opinion that they can manage the disaster better than the Dems instead of just eliminating the disaster completely.

I don't think that is it. IMHO they are quite enamored of a great deal of the disaster in private and have no wish to get rid of it.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 07:05:57 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: GOP releases bills to repeal and replace ObamaCare
« Reply #124 on: March 07, 2017, 07:10:03 pm »
I don't think that is it. IMHO they are quite enamored of a great deal of the disaster in private and have no wish to get rid of it.

Well there is that too...especially since I haven't heard anything about repealing their exemption from the legislation.

Doesn't matter which disaster is put in place...they aren't hurt by it personally either way.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!