Yes, Childhood Sexual Abuse Often Does Contribute to Homosexuality

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine
I understand.  My opinion would remain the same either way.

You're right, it's between them and God when it comes to personal judgment.  My stance is that the behavior itself is not normal, and is Biblically wrong.  I don't go around shouting that from the rooftops, but I won't shrink from it in discussion, and I won't modify my opinion.  I hope you can accept that.

Of course I can, and do.  But, the old trite "hate the sin, love the sinner" applies here too.  It is the act that is the problem, not the fact that someone is a homosexual.  I guess what I object to (and, not saying you are doing this, just a general observation) is hyperbole and hatred expressed towards homosexuals overall.  And, though we can be excused for forgetting in this day and age that homosexuals comprise a very, very small percentage of the population, they are really very few and far between. 

And, then there's the other side who claim that homosexuality is perfectly normal and should be regarded as just another human union and that we have to destroy the concept of marriage out of "fairness".   

[Cyber Liberty]

Of course I can, and do.  But, the old trite "hate the sin, love the sinner" applies here too.  It is the act that is the problem, not the fact that someone is a homosexual.  I guess what I object to (and, not saying you are doing this, just a general observation) is hyperbole and hatred expressed towards homosexuals overall.  And, though we can be excused for forgetting in this day and age that homosexuals comprise a very, very small percentage of the population, they are really very few and far between. 

And, then there's the other side who claim that homosexuality is perfectly normal and should be regarded as just another human union and that we have to destroy the concept of marriage out of "fairness".

I think a lot of the angst is because of things like courts crushing people who don't want to embrace the sin as well as the sinner.  There are bakeries that are no more, for example, and it's converted a lot of people who used to not care into people who care a lot.

[INVAR]

But, the old trite "hate the sin, love the sinner" applies here too.  It is the act that is the problem, not the fact that someone is a homosexual. 

That noble sentiment has been perverted into a weapon we have to be mindful of.  Because as one Homosexual activist told me after I mentioned that exact sentiment, is that their homosexuality defines who they are - and therefore if we hate the act of homosexuality, we hate the individual - and stand condemned by our own words.  To them, if we do not embrace the act, then we hate them and earn the title of bigot/homophobe/racist and all the rest.

The act and the agenda are one and the same.  Loving someone who is struggling with overcoming that sin is one thing - standing by passively and refusing to engage those who are promoting the sin and their agenda is how we have arrived at Christian businesses being sued into oblivion by the Gay Mafia.

And, then there's the other side who claim that homosexuality is perfectly normal and should be regarded as just another human union and that we have to destroy the concept of marriage out of "fairness".

Proverbs tells us there is nothing new under the sun.  Genesis 19 tells us everything we need to know about that sin and the agenda it will push on everyone - by force if necessary.

[goatprairie]

@goatprairie

Well, I thought we were having a civil discussion, so I'm sorry that you apparently decided to abandon it to declare what "many people" think.  You demanded proof from me, but you refused to address the points in my last post.

When you start using genetics to justify behavior (and there is no proof at all that homosexuality is genetic), you're on the road to making it normal.  Homosexuality is not normal.  And you can't stop there.  If they're just born that way and can't help it, well, any other tendencies people are born with have to be considered normal.

Pedophiles, liars, rapists, murderers, whatever----they're all born that way.  You're actually falling into that trap in your post.  It removes responsibility from everyone. 

I don't have a problem accepting that homosexuals would choose a lifestyle that most often results in unhappiness and sickness.  People choose self-destructive paths of all kinds every day, knowing full well what they might be in for.  It's human nature.

I see homosexuality as a learned behavior, not an inborn preference.  We can disagree on that and remain polite to each other.

I'm not attacking you. I don't think homosexuality is normal, and I don't think it's genetic. I think abnormal levels of hormones during gestation are responsible for most homosexual behavior.
What I'm trying to do is convince people like you that not every bad or aberrant behavior is learned. To many people it just comes from within. Do you seriously believe Jeffrey Dahmer's parents taught him all that insane, criminal behavior?  Unfortunately, many people are born twisted. Some twisted people can control their perverse desires, but many of them can't.
What you are quite unwilling to accept is that homosexuality, like many aberrant forms of behavior, could be innate.  You have to answer the question of why there are so  many lesbians in sport,  an activity that frequently requires higher levels of aggressive behavior usually associated with males? Why are so many male homosexuals attracted to fashion, art,  ballet, and sports, like figure skating, where style is very important?

[INVAR]

I don't think homosexuality is normal, and I don't think it's genetic. I think abnormal levels of hormones during gestation are responsible for most homosexual behavior.

What I'm trying to do is convince people like you that not every bad or aberrant behavior is learned. To many people it just comes from within. Do you seriously believe Jeffrey Dahmer's parents taught him all that insane, criminal behavior?  Unfortunately, many people are born twisted. Some twisted people can control their perverse desires, but many of them can't.
What you are quite unwilling to accept is that homosexuality, like many aberrant forms of behavior, could be innate.  You have to answer the question of why there are so  many lesbians in sport,  an activity that frequently requires higher levels of aggressive behavior usually associated with males? Why are so many male homosexuals attracted to fashion, art,  ballet, and sports, like figure skating, where style is very important?

Human nature serves it's own appetites and desires, and the demonic world simply entices the natural state to embrace destruction.

[Silver Pines]

Of course I can, and do.  But, the old trite "hate the sin, love the sinner" applies here too.  It is the act that is the problem, not the fact that someone is a homosexual.  I guess what I object to (and, not saying you are doing this, just a general observation) is hyperbole and hatred expressed towards homosexuals overall.  And, though we can be excused for forgetting in this day and age that homosexuals comprise a very, very small percentage of the population, they are really very few and far between. 

And, then there's the other side who claim that homosexuality is perfectly normal and should be regarded as just another human union and that we have to destroy the concept of marriage out of "fairness".

@Sanguine

No, I agree.  Some of the gay guys I've worked with were really sweet people.  The guy who used to cut my hair was a friend.  I don't hate the individuals.  But these days (and you aren't doing this, so I don't mean you), there can be subtle pressure to say, well, but there's really not that much wrong with it.  My opinion on the subject is pretty conventional. 

Well, unless they're storming a Catholic church and defiling the altar, or something like that.  Different story for those types.

[Silver Pines]

@goatprairie

I'm not attacking you. I don't think homosexuality is normal, and I don't think it's genetic. I think abnormal levels of hormones during gestation are responsible for most homosexual behavior.

Okay. 

What I'm trying to do is convince people like you that not every bad or aberrant behavior is learned. To many people it just comes from within. Do you seriously believe Jeffrey Dahmer's parents taught him all that insane, criminal behavior?  Unfortunately, many people are born twisted. Some twisted people can control their perverse desires, but many of them can't.

Why try to convince me?  What does it matter what I think?  I don't agree with you, goat, and that's just the way it is.

What you are quite unwilling to accept is that homosexuality, like many aberrant forms of behavior, could be innate.  You have to answer the question of why there are so  many lesbians in sport,  an activity that frequently requires higher levels of aggressive behavior usually associated with males? Why are so many male homosexuals attracted to fashion, art,  ballet, and sports, like figure skating, where style is very important?

I am unwilling to accept it because I'm not required to.  See how that works?   Can you live with that?

[goatprairie]

@goatprairie

Okay. 

Why try to convince me?  What does it matter what I think?  I don't agree with you, goat, and that's just the way it is.

I am unwilling to accept it because I'm not required to.  See how that works?   Can you live with that?

Yes ma'am...believe what you want.

[goatprairie]

Human nature serves it's own appetites and desires, and the demonic world simply entices the natural state to embrace destruction.

There isn't any amount of demons who are going make me look, as Rock Hudson did,  at Jim Nabors with lust in my heart.  Maybe something that rhymes with lust.

[Cyber Liberty]

There isn't any amount of demons who are going make me look, as Rock Hudson did,  at Jim Nabors with lust in my heart.  Maybe something that rhymes with lust.

For me it would take a shot in the eye, like Moe Greene in The Godfather.  Just sayin.

[Fishrrman]

My thoughts on the subject (if you don't mind dirtying yourself by going to TOS), posted on Feb. 4, 2012:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2846164/posts?page=67#67

[TomSea]

That strikes me as reasonable.   Folks are wired the way they are.   That's a notion that's resisted by the religious, of course, because it means either that the Bible's wrong, or God is arbitrarily cruel in a way they may find difficult to accept.     

@Jazzhead
We'd all be bowing 3 times a day to Mecca if it were not for Christianity;

But seeing how some people never criticize Sharia Law, honor killings, throwing gays off of buildings, female genital mutilation, I guess we can consider the issue a wash.

[INVAR]

My thoughts on the subject (if you don't mind dirtying yourself by going to TOS), posted on Feb. 4, 2012:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2846164/posts?page=67#67

I shan't sully myself by visiting thereof, so I shall remain oblivious to your thoughts on the subject, lest you reveal them here.

[goatprairie]

@Jazzhead
We'd all be bowing 3 times a day to Mecca if it were not for Christianity;

But seeing how some people never criticize Sharia Law, honor killings, throwing gays off of buildings, female genital mutilation, I guess we can consider the issue a wash.

"But seeing how some people never criticize Sharia Law," etc.

....and you know this how? You've just made an erroneous supposition. I consider myself a Christian, a very faulty one, but a Christian nevertheless.  Because I think many weird behaviors (like homosexuality) are innate does not make me hate Christianity or refrain from condemning radical Islam.
But you and others like you are making another erroneous assumption: everybody who does something bad does it because somebody else did something bad to them. That is simply not corroborated by the evidence.
A number of people take an extreme delight in setting things on fire...pyromaniacs.  There are many other people who do weird things. In the news lately was a story of a postal worker who got caught sexually abusing a dog.   There are numerous other cases of people doing very strange things well out of the norm.  Do you seriously believe all these people were taught by their parents or someone to do those odd things?
Many people are just weird.  That's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

[TomSea]

"But seeing how some people never criticize Sharia Law," etc.

....and you know this how? You've just made an erroneous supposition. I consider myself a Christian, a very faulty one, but a Christian nevertheless.  Because I think many weird behaviors (like homosexuality) are innate does not make me hate Christianity or refrain from condemning radical Islam.
But you and others like you are making another erroneous assumption: everybody who does something bad does it because somebody else did something bad to them. That is simply not corroborated by the evidence.
A number of people take an extreme delight in setting things on fire...pyromaniacs.  There are many other people who do weird things. In the news lately was a story of a postal worker who got caught sexually abusing a dog.   There are numerous other cases of people doing very strange things well out of the norm.  Do you seriously believe all these people were taught by their parents or someone to do those odd things?
Many people are just weird.  That's unfortunate, but that's the way it is.

@goatprairie

No, this is not what I said.  This is what was said:

  That's a notion that's resisted by the religious, of course, because it means either that the Bible's wrong, or God is arbitrarily cruel in a way they may find difficult to accept.    

Why not say "Because it means either the Koran is wrong... etc." but no, this has anti-Christian sentiment in the post, not uncommon per the posts of some folks here like the quoted poster. I'm not trying to make this personal; I was just pointing this out. Muslims have been called "our friends and neighbors" by the poster, but Christians seem to get vilified and I think that is fair game.

I had no direct references to the homosexual issue at heart of this thread. It is a side issue but I think still on topic nonetheless.

[bigheadfred]

Homosexuality isn't genetic.  It is, however, an effect of having the primal defense/survival mechanism triggered. So, if there is sufficient in utero trauma, you can be "born that way".

[MOD4]

You all be sure to get your last digs in at one another before We close this one down.
@Mod1

[jmyrlefuller]

Remember, above all: just as a cough and fever can be a symptom of any number of illnesses, so too is homosexual tendency a symptom, not a disorder in and of itself, and could have multiple causes.

[bigheadfred]

You all be sure to get your last digs in at one another before We close this one down.
@Mod1

uh huh

"We"

[truth_seeker]

You all be sure to get your last digs in at one another before We close this one down.
@Mod1

Is there somewhere to learn what are the criteria, for having mods close down a particular thread?

[bigheadfred]

You all be sure to get your last digs in at one another before We close this one down.
@Mod1

uh huh

"We"

Talk to an expert therapist

https://www.7cups.com/connect/?r=therapy

[Wingnut]

Is there somewhere to learn what are the criteria, for having mods close down a particular thread?

It is my view that it must related to your posts.  You seem to be able to cause threads to be locked just by posting on them.  I'm sure it is just a coincidence and has absolutely nothing to do with your posts content whatsoever.  The Mods Hate you.

[bigheadfred]

A friend asked me how  I liked TBR. I said I couldn't complain.

[Cyber Liberty]

uh huh

"We"

Thanks, Fred!  Now my brain is going to hurt for a week!

[Mod1]

Is there somewhere to learn what are the criteria, for having mods close down a particular thread?

This isn't DU where there exists a 15-page set of rules and guidelines for their "laws" (complete with Judges, Juries and trials).

In this particular case it's because the thread seems to have gotten into a big circle-talk about religion, and it may have to stop for the same reason TBR doesn't have a religious section.  It's virtually impossible to carry on such discussions for any length of time before it gets personal.

This one stays open for a while more.  I appreciate your asking and giving me an opportunity to amplify upon that policy.

Mod1