Author Topic: McDonald's restaurants across the US are shutting down for a 'Day Without Immigrants' protest  (Read 6783 times)

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Offline Emjay

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Businesses across the country shut down for A Day Without Immigrants protests

ABC News VideosFebruary 16, 2017


Thousands of people did not attend work to demonstrate what life without immigrants might look like.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/video/businesses-across-country-shut-down-012720676.html

Oh, factories and  restaurants closed..  What an eye opener on how many of our jobs are gone to immigrants.  I don’t think all of those jobs are ones Americans don’t want to do.

I can see what life without them would look like.  It looks like millions of jobs for Americans.

30 million 12 million of that food workers.

Yep!  Beware of unintended consequences.
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Offline jpsb

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I rarely eat fast food, but when I do, it's never McDonald's.

Jack in the Box is much better. I'll do a quarter pounder with cheese and a Big Mac 2 or 3 times a year.

Offline Emjay

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I will only speak to the fast food jobs, those that primarily were for teenagers to learn skills for future employment and make pocket money. You do understand that it was Americans that opened the door for those jobs to be taken over by immigrants don't you? It was the denigration of those jobs by teenagers parents, and other adults that drove the teens away and forced the employers to hire from the only available plentiful source. And then, this is the really hilarious part, those same adults then whined and moaned about the immigrants having stolen those jobs from Americans!
 
 There are plenty of situations to bitch about jobs being taken from Americans and legal immigrants, but the food service is not one of them, Americans gave those jobs away as worthless and demeaning. As to your obvious disdain for Mickey D's? Why do even care if some of them shut down, and I'm sure the Operators will be getting an earful from Corp., since you make it clear you would never give them your trade any way.

 Oh and the situation with fast food jobs, something I can speak with authority on having managed it for twenty three years and during the period when those jobs became anathema to Americans.
@Chosen Daughter


Where is this coming from?  I don't believe parents ever told their kids that working for fast food places or anywhere else was demeaning.

Maybe snobby parents, but most parents are pleased when their kids get a job, any job.  Both my kids worked at jobs the 'parents' you speak of would consider demeaning.

My son did yard work and rustled cattle.  My daughter worked for a multitude of employers ... she worked at the mall; she worked for a delivery service; she worked as a waitress.

I think you're way off base with your theory.
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Offline Emjay

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Oh, heck no!  I wanted my kids to do low-paying menial jobs when they were youngsters.  Taught them a lot, one of the main things being that this was not the sort of job they wanted to do for the rest of their lives.

Amen, brother.  It taught my son that the only lawn he ever wanted to mow again was his own.
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Offline Emjay

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I can't do Starbucks coffee, either.  I tried McDonald's once, but it was too weak for me.  I'm used to the jet fuel my husband brews, lol.

I had my first cup of coffee in six weeks this morning and it was strong!  I made it myself.  So, if I seem a little combative ....
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Offline ABX

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Where is this coming from?  I don't believe parents ever told their kids that working for fast food places or anywhere else was demeaning.

Maybe snobby parents, but most parents are pleased when their kids get a job, any job.  Both my kids worked at jobs the 'parents' you speak of would consider demeaning.

My son did yard work and rustled cattle.  My daughter worked for a multitude of employers ... she worked at the mall; she worked for a delivery service; she worked as a waitress.

I think you're way off base with your theory.

It depends on where you are and the generation you are talking about. I worked my ass off when I was young. My dad owned a hardware store franchise and I worked the warehouse starting when I was 16.

These days, depending on the area, I see constant attitudes of jobs being beneath people. 18 year old girls who immediately want their Louis Vuittons (fake of course) and boys with their Yeezys. They look at hard work as demeaning and expect music video level success right out of the gate. This is often fostered by parents and communities who hold up how stylish their kids are as a status symbol. And we aren't talking middle class or rich here, but poor neighborhoods. Value is put on symbolism and style, not on success and achievement. They want the trappings without the work to get there.

Offline Emjay

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Same here.  And I never ever get breakfast fast food any more.  Used to all the time back when I worked full time though.  These days if I don't feel like cooking breakfast, I just pop a Jimmy Dean breakfast bowl in the microwave and voila.... breakfast is served.   :laugh:

I lived on Jimmy Dean sausage/biscuit/cheese, egg sandwiches for a while.  They're good but I got burned out on them.
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Offline jpsb

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My son did yard work and rustled cattle.  My daughter worked for a multitude of employers ... she worked at the mall; she worked for a delivery service; she worked as a waitress.

My how things have changed, back in the day you got hung if you got caught rustling cattle.

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Not the nostalgia perhaps but those jobs will get done and it will be Americans and legal immigrates doing them. It is ridiculous to say Americans will not do those jobs when Americans have been doing them for generations. Pay a decent wage and the jobs will get done, period end of story.

@jpsb So we can put you down for the $15 minimum wage campaign then?

That's a ridiculous argument because you can always get somebody to do a job if you raise the pay high enough.  Raise the pay for septic tank cleaner high enough and even the likes of Bill Gates and Trump would happily do the job.  So what?  That will never happen because cleaning septic tanks cannot support the costs needed to pay such a wage.

Wages in nonunion industries are set by supply/demand and weighted by value-add.  Nobody is going to pay $15/hour for a job where the value-add is less than $15 (plus the other expenses the employer incurs with respect to the position).  The fact is that the value-add from most low-end jobs is low enough that most legal Americans, of whatever stripe, won't do them.  Why?  Who knows; that's a personal subjective decision, but it is clearly influenced by the snowflake entitlement mentality many Americans have developed. 

The fact is, if you really wanted to stop illegal aliens from undercutting Americans - I'm sure it happens to a degree - you would grant illegals guest worker status and make sure their employers are paying at least current minimum wage, plus required benefits, and all payroll taxes.  Making current illegals guest workers means they can no longer be treated like indentured servants by those who currently employ them because they will stand up for themselves without fear of deportation.  On the macro scale that will necessarily make hiring current illegals an undesirable proposition for many current employers because they would then cost the employer just as much as an American would cost. If two people cost the same but one speaks English and the other only Spanish, guess who gets hired. 

Most anti-immigrants display a foolish consistency that is worthy of Emerson's hobgoblin. 

Offline alicewonders

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@jpsb So we can put you down for the $15 minimum wage campaign then?

That's a ridiculous argument because you can always get somebody to do a job if you raise the pay high enough.  Raise the pay for septic tank cleaner high enough and even the likes of Bill Gates and Trump would happily do the job.  So what?  That will never happen because cleaning septic tanks cannot support the costs needed to pay such a wage.

Wages in nonunion industries are set by supply/demand and weighted by value-add.  Nobody is going to pay $15/hour for a job where the value-add is less than $15 (plus the other expenses the employer incurs with respect to the position).  The fact is that the value-add from most low-end jobs is low enough that most legal Americans, of whatever stripe, won't do them.  Why?  Who knows; that's a personal subjective decision, but it is clearly influenced by the snowflake entitlement mentality many Americans have developed. 

The fact is, if you really wanted to stop illegal aliens from undercutting Americans - I'm sure it happens to a degree - you would grant illegals guest worker status and make sure their employers are paying at least current minimum wage, plus required benefits, and all payroll taxes.  Making current illegals guest workers means they can no longer be treated like indentured servants by those who currently employ them because they will stand up for themselves without fear of deportation.  On the macro scale that will necessarily make hiring current illegals an undesirable proposition for many current employers because they would then cost the employer just as much as an American would cost. If two people cost the same but one speaks English and the other only Spanish, guess who gets hired. 

Most anti-immigrants display a foolish consistency that is worthy of Emerson's hobgoblin.

There you go again - with your "anti-immigrant" slam.  Did you get that term from a protest sign?  There is no doubt that you know well that we are not against immigrants - it is the illegals we are talking about.  Agitprop much?

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Offline Cripplecreek

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@jpsb So we can put you down for the $15 minimum wage campaign then?

That's a ridiculous argument because you can always get somebody to do a job if you raise the pay high enough.  Raise the pay for septic tank cleaner high enough and even the likes of Bill Gates and Trump would happily do the job.  So what?  That will never happen because cleaning septic tanks cannot support the costs needed to pay such a wage.

Wages in nonunion industries are set by supply/demand and weighted by value-add.  Nobody is going to pay $15/hour for a job where the value-add is less than $15 (plus the other expenses the employer incurs with respect to the position).  The fact is that the value-add from most low-end jobs is low enough that most legal Americans, of whatever stripe, won't do them.  Why?  Who knows; that's a personal subjective decision, but it is clearly influenced by the snowflake entitlement mentality many Americans have developed. 

The fact is, if you really wanted to stop illegal aliens from undercutting Americans - I'm sure it happens to a degree - you would grant illegals guest worker status and make sure their employers are paying at least current minimum wage, plus required benefits, and all payroll taxes.  Making current illegals guest workers means they can no longer be treated like indentured servants by those who currently employ them because they will stand up for themselves without fear of deportation.  On the macro scale that will necessarily make hiring current illegals an undesirable proposition for many current employers because they would then cost the employer just as much as an American would cost. If two people cost the same but one speaks English and the other only Spanish, guess who gets hired. 

Most anti-immigrants display a foolish consistency that is worthy of Emerson's hobgoblin.

The farms I worked on for 5 to 7 dollars per hour are paying 12 to 15 today and can't attract the local kids.

Just find any #FightForFifteen clown on twitter and suggest farm work to them and prepare for a barrage of excuses about why they won't.  :silly:

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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The farms I worked on for 5 to 7 dollars per hour are paying 12 to 15 today and can't attract the local kids.

Just find any #FightForFifteen clown on twitter and suggest farm work to them and prepare for a barrage of excuses about why they won't.  :silly:
A few missed meals would fix that attitude in a hurry.  :whistle:
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Offline jpsb

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@jpsb So we can put you down for the $15 minimum wage campaign then?

That's a ridiculous argument because you can always get somebody to do a job if you raise the pay high enough.  Raise the pay for septic tank cleaner high enough and even the likes of Bill Gates and Trump would happily do the job.  So what?  That will never happen because cleaning septic tanks cannot support the costs needed to pay such a wage.

Wages in nonunion industries are set by supply/demand and weighted by value-add.  Nobody is going to pay $15/hour for a job where the value-add is less than $15 (plus the other expenses the employer incurs with respect to the position).  The fact is that the value-add from most low-end jobs is low enough that most legal Americans, of whatever stripe, won't do them.  Why?  Who knows; that's a personal subjective decision, but it is clearly influenced by the snowflake entitlement mentality many Americans have developed. 

The fact is, if you really wanted to stop illegal aliens from undercutting Americans - I'm sure it happens to a degree - you would grant illegals guest worker status and make sure their employers are paying at least current minimum wage, plus required benefits, and all payroll taxes.  Making current illegals guest workers means they can no longer be treated like indentured servants by those who currently employ them because they will stand up for themselves without fear of deportation.  On the macro scale that will necessarily make hiring current illegals an undesirable proposition for many current employers because they would then cost the employer just as much as an American would cost. If two people cost the same but one speaks English and the other only Spanish, guess who gets hired. 

Most anti-immigrants display a foolish consistency that is worthy of Emerson's hobgoblin.

Did I say raise the minimum wage? No I didn't I said pay a decent wage. But you would much rather argue a straw man of your own making then discuss the point I actually made.

You just want the benefits of cheap illegal labor even thou that means no jobs for poor working class Americans. I do, I want to see Americans with jobs, not illegals.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 06:07:26 pm by jpsb »

Offline ABX

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@jpsb So we can put you down for the $15 minimum wage campaign then?

That's a ridiculous argument because you can always get somebody to do a job if you raise the pay high enough.  Raise the pay for septic tank cleaner high enough and even the likes of Bill Gates and Trump would happily do the job.  So what?  That will never happen because cleaning septic tanks cannot support the costs needed to pay such a wage.

Wages in nonunion industries are set by supply/demand and weighted by value-add.  Nobody is going to pay $15/hour for a job where the value-add is less than $15 (plus the other expenses the employer incurs with respect to the position).  The fact is that the value-add from most low-end jobs is low enough that most legal Americans, of whatever stripe, won't do them.  Why?  Who knows; that's a personal subjective decision, but it is clearly influenced by the snowflake entitlement mentality many Americans have developed. 

The fact is, if you really wanted to stop illegal aliens from undercutting Americans - I'm sure it happens to a degree - you would grant illegals guest worker status and make sure their employers are paying at least current minimum wage, plus required benefits, and all payroll taxes.  Making current illegals guest workers means they can no longer be treated like indentured servants by those who currently employ them because they will stand up for themselves without fear of deportation.  On the macro scale that will necessarily make hiring current illegals an undesirable proposition for many current employers because they would then cost the employer just as much as an American would cost. If two people cost the same but one speaks English and the other only Spanish, guess who gets hired. 

Most anti-immigrants display a foolish consistency that is worthy of Emerson's hobgoblin.

There is a formula we used to use a long time ago when I was working on my MBA that was a pretty accurate way of calculating what the market could support as a wage.

It involved taking the net value of the transactions per hour performed by the worker, multiply it by the number of jobs the worker is responsible for (if just himself with no subordinates, multiply by one), and divide by a specific factor.

For example, someone at a register at McDonalds may complete 10, $5 transactions per hour and is just responsible for his own job. Once it was factored in, his job may only have a market value of around $5-6/hour.

A CEO, on average, may deal with hundreds of thousands of dollars per hour and have under his responsibility, tens of thousands of employees.

It was a bit more complicated than this but it gives you the idea. I need to go dig that up. It is very eye opening.

Offline dfwgator

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My how things have changed, back in the day you got hung if you got caught rustling cattle.

Especially through The Vatican.

Offline Idiot

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Especially through The Vatican.
I suppose that has to be over my head...   :pondering:

Offline Emjay

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My how things have changed, back in the day you got hung if you got caught rustling cattle.

I should have explained.  My son's grandfather bought and sold calves.  He would buy them at auctions.  My son became so experienced, he could estimate the weight of a calf just by looking at it.

My son helped him in this process.  but he did wrestle a few calves if not rustle.
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Offline GtHawk

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Where is this coming from?  I don't believe parents ever told their kids that working for fast food places or anywhere else was demeaning.

Maybe snobby parents, but most parents are pleased when their kids get a job, any job.  Both my kids worked at jobs the 'parents' you speak of would consider demeaning.

My son did yard work and rustled cattle.  My daughter worked for a multitude of employers ... she worked at the mall; she worked for a delivery service; she worked as a waitress.

I think you're way off base with your theory.
Where is this coming from? Reality, life experience, history. Back in the 80's people in SoCal, especially Fountain Valley which was an affluent city were making so much money they gave their children everything including brand new fast cars which ended with more than a few deaths, those kids whose parents didn't have so much only wanted to work in clothing stores or video and record stores, remember them and those that couldn't and worked food were looked down upon not only by their peers but pressured by the adults. I guess you think there is another reason why once where there was no problem staffing over 135 crew suddenly became a labor desert. You would think that suddenly White people just stopped having children, yeah that's the ticket, ooh no wait maybe it's because all fast food owners suddenly became racists and refused to hire Whites. Different experiences across America, I also know that in the early to mid nineties I was losing Hispanic employees who along with their extended families were moving out of California to States in the midwest and east coast and they couldn't do that if there weren't jobs waiting for them there.

Oh and I don't consider any job demeaning, all have value and everyone working them has value, just not equal value dollar wise just the equal value of respect for working. My kids both had to work to earn their way, just as I did. My parents came to America with about $13 dollars, could neither ask for or receive government aid for 5 years, they never did, they became citizens after five years, bought their first house with $100 dollars of their and $200 borrowed and my dad worked eighteen hours a day for years to pay back the loans and the house and then was heaped by some born Americans because he had more and a payed off home after being in America for just a few years while they didn't. I worked as a janitor, busboy, line cook, food service manager for many years, I am the last one to find any job demeaning, but I do know how we got where we are now, it's not a theory it's history.

@Emjay

Offline dfwgator

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I suppose that has to be over my head...   :pondering:

Blazing Saddles reference.

Online Bigun

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I should have explained.  My son's grandfather bought and sold calves.  He would buy them at auctions.  My son became so experienced, he could estimate the weight of a calf just by looking at it.

My son helped him in this process.  but he did wrestle a few calves if not rustle.

I think the word you are looking for is wrangled.   :beer:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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I think the word you are looking for is wrangled.   :beer:
Wranglers, Rustlers, Levi's. What's the difference.  :tongue2:
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Online Bigun

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Wranglers, Rustlers, Levi's. What's the difference.  :tongue2:

The difference is stealing cattle vs working cattle!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline EC

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Wranglers fit better.
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Offline GrouchoTex

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FWIW, my trek from Sugar Land to Katy (and back) to work didn't yield any closed business or disruptions.
I saw on the news that they had a rally at Guadalupe Plaza off of Navigation on the east side of downtown Houston.
I saw people with signs in English, that looked like they were printed signs from Union organizers.

As far as the work ethic of Americans is concerned, I heard a report on the radio this morning that said in 33 out of 50 states, welfare pays better than minimum wage.
In most of the country, it pays better to not work entry level jobs than it does to have one.

I think the youth are too short-sighted, thinking that these are the only jobs they are ever going to have.
Like someone said earlier, I also did menial jobs in High School and it did teach me that I did not want to do them when I grew up.

Online Bigun

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FWIW, my trek from Sugar Land to Katy (and back) to work didn't yield any closed business or disruptions.
I saw on the news that they had a rally at Guadalupe Plaza off of Navigation on the east side of downtown Houston.
I saw people with signs in English, that looked like they were printed signs from Union organizers.

As far as the work ethic of Americans is concerned, I heard a report on the radio this morning that said in 33 out of 50 states, welfare pays better than minimum wage.
In most of the country, it pays better to not work entry level jobs than it does to have one.

I think the youth are too short-sighted, thinking that these are the only jobs they are ever going to have.
Like someone said earlier, I also did menial jobs in High School and it did teach me that I did not want to do them when I grew up.

LOL! I saw a report on channel 11 news last night about how arrests had dropped way down in NYC after they announced that they would no longer prosecute certain cases!  DUH!  If I'm a cop and you tell me you aren't going to prosecute something what do you imagine I might do?

If you are dumb enough to pay me more for not working than working what do you think I might decide to do?

« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 07:40:01 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien