Author Topic: Chuck Todd: Donald Trump’s Delegitimization of Press ‘Un-American,’ ‘Not a Laughing Matter’  (Read 19861 times)

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Oceander

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Wrong. Haven't had a drink for over 23 years.

Then maybe you should start.  It might improve things.

Offline musiclady

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Ladies, I would love to know what you hope to accomplish with your constant demeaning of Trump.

We all knew his personal faults, and they are many, but we should be past that by now and encourage him to be the best president he can be.

So far he's exceeded my expectations.

Besides personal gratification at feeling superior what else do you think you are doing to make the world a better place.

I don't feel one bit "superior" because I haven't forgotten who Trump is, and the implication that that is the motive of either @Victoria33 or me is absurd.

I get it.  You want to read NO criticism of Trump.

Tough.

We're as free to speak here as anyone else.

If you want unanimity and constant pats on the back for Trump, you can find that elsewhere.

Fortunately for us, and unfortunately for you, there is FREEDOM here, and that includes freedom from intimidation to shut up because you don't happen to agree with us.

The very fabric of America is the right to disagree......... no, the OBLIGATION to disagree with those in authority over us.  If you want to destroy that fabric by forcing minds in lockstep with the President, there are other countries that can oblige you.

Frankly, I'm shocked that you are whining about differing opinions.   I thought much more of you than that.

@Emjay
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Idiot

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I don't feel one bit "superior" because I haven't forgotten who Trump is, and the implication that that is the motive of either @Victoria33 or me is absurd.

I get it.  You want to read NO criticism of Trump.

Tough.

We're as free to speak here as anyone else.

If you want unanimity and constant pats on the back for Trump, you can find that elsewhere.

Fortunately for us, and unfortunately for you, there is FREEDOM here, and that includes freedom from intimidation to shut up because you don't happen to agree with us.

The very fabric of America is the right to disagree......... no, the OBLIGATION to disagree with those in authority over us.  If you want to destroy that fabric by forcing minds in lockstep with the President, there are other countries that can oblige you.

Frankly, I'm shocked that you are whining about differing opinions.   I thought much more of you than that.

@Emjay
:2popcorn:

Offline musiclady

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:2popcorn:

Observe, mrpotatohead............ which side here is trying to stop the other side from speaking? 

I believe pro-Trump people should have the freedom to say whatever they please about him, and I respect the right of anyone to speak who is pleased with his Presidency so far (if it is not accompanied by personal smears of those who disagree).

But the accusations have been leveled here of all sorts of nefarious motives from all sorts of different people at those of us who DARE to still not trust someone who has proven for 70 years to be untrustworthy.

Why the effort to stifle our speech? Why the accusations that is out of some sanctimony or superiority complex, or even more ludicrous, that we are leftist trolls being paid by Hillary because we refuse to be in lockstep with the others on the forum?

Let the discussion be about Trump without turning our disagreement and displeasure with him against us personally.   I would LOVE to see more people defending him without jabbing at people like Victoria33 (just yesterday falsely accused of knowing nothing about national security because of her disagreement with Trump), or anyone else.

Let's have honest discussion here, OK??  Please??

Final rant. Until tomorrow.....  :seeya:
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 04:06:01 am by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Victoria33

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I don't feel one bit "superior" because I haven't forgotten who Trump is, and the implication that that is the motive of either @Victoria33 or me is absurd.  I get it.  You want to read NO criticism of Trump.
Tough.  We're as free to speak here as anyone else.  If you want unanimity and constant pats on the back for Trump, you can find that elsewhere.  Fortunately for us, and unfortunately for you, there is FREEDOM here, and that includes freedom from intimidation to shut up because you don't happen to agree with us.  The very fabric of America is the right to disagree......... no, the OBLIGATION to disagree with those in authority over us.  If you want to destroy that fabric by forcing minds in lockstep with the President, there are other countries that can oblige you.  Frankly, I'm shocked that you are whining about differing opinions.   I thought much more of you than that.
@musiclady

I have "her" on Ignore, so I don't see what she writes unless someone else copies it and then I still don't respond.  She is encouraging rheumatism/inflammation/fingernail damage/etc., of the fingers typing incessant snark to me which I don't read and don't care what she writes.

Offline Emjay

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I don't feel one bit "superior" because I haven't forgotten who Trump is, and the implication that that is the motive of either @Victoria33 or me is absurd.

I get it.  You want to read NO criticism of Trump.

Tough.

We're as free to speak here as anyone else.

If you want unanimity and constant pats on the back for Trump, you can find that elsewhere.

Fortunately for us, and unfortunately for you, there is FREEDOM here, and that includes freedom from intimidation to shut up because you don't happen to agree with us.

The very fabric of America is the right to disagree......... no, the OBLIGATION to disagree with those in authority over us.  If you want to destroy that fabric by forcing minds in lockstep with the President, there are other countries that can oblige you.

Frankly, I'm shocked that you are whining about differing opinions.   I thought much more of you than that.

@Emjay

I don't call it whining.  You can if you like.  I was simply wondering what the point is at this present time in all this self-indulgent criticism.

Trump is not my cup of tea and accusing me of being in lockstep with him is ridiculous.

But he is now the president and I think he deserves a chance.  He's done much better so far than I could have hoped.

I certainly don't want to abridge your right to your opinions.  Just don't know what you think you're accomplishing.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Idiot

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Observe, mrpotatohead............ which side here is trying to stop the other side from speaking? 

I believe pro-Trump people should have the freedom to say whatever they please about him, and I respect the right of anyone to speak who is pleased with his Presidency so far (if it is not accompanied by personal smears of those who disagree).

But the accusations have been leveled here of all sorts of nefarious motives from all sorts of different people at those of us who DARE to still not trust someone who has proven for 70 years to be untrustworthy.

Why the effort to stifle our speech? Why the accusations that is out of some sanctimony or superiority complex, or even more ludicrous, that we are leftist trolls being paid by Hillary because we refuse to be in lockstep with the others on the forum?

Let the discussion be about Trump without turning our disagreement and displeasure with him against us personally.   I would LOVE to see more people defending him without jabbing at people like Victoria33 (just yesterday falsely accused of knowing nothing about national security because of her disagreement with Trump), or anyone else.

Let's have honest discussion here, OK??  Please??

Final rant. Until tomorrow.....  :seeya:
I'm biting my tongue.  The last time I was in the middle of some women arguing I ended up getting the blame and it ended up rather poorly.  So.....  I respect all of you and your opinions...and my don't you all look wonderful this evening.   :laugh:

Online corbe

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I'm biting my tongue.  The last time I was in the middle of some women arguing I ended up getting the blame and it ended up rather poorly.  So.....  I respect all of you and your opinions...and my don't you all look wonderful this evening.   :laugh:

   There ass really looks big in that dress, admit it @mrpotatohead
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Victoria33

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I'm biting my tongue.  The last time I was in the middle of some women arguing I ended up getting the blame and it ended up rather poorly.  So.....  I respect all of you and your opinions...and my don't you all look wonderful this evening.   :laugh:
@mrpotatohead

I don't get involved in word fights.
At the moment I am wearing a lovely caftan.

Offline sneakypete

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   There ass really looks big in that dress, admit it @mrpotatohead

@corbe

I believe you are wrong. I suspect it it their asses that makes the dress look so little.

I will refrain from making comments about dresses made from platoon tents.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Emjay

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   There ass really looks big in that dress, admit it @mrpotatohead

Thanks, corbe .. I not only look marvelous, I feel good.

Apparently I started a war and I am now "her" .... 

I only have maybe one person on ignore.  I like to see what everyone thinks, and I have no objection whatever to people who want to cling to their hatred of Trump.  There's lots to hate about him.

I just don't see the point.  I want to save my hate for Obama and Hillary.  I only have so much hate and I want to use it wisely.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Online corbe

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@corbe

I believe you are wrong. I suspect it it their asses that makes the dress look so little.

I will refrain from making comments about dresses made from platoon tents.

   You're just asking for trouble @sneakypete , keep pushing I like it.
   I had to look up a what a caftan was and it looks like a very comfortable dress and unless your sitting there in the nude I'd say @Victoria33 is  probably feeling better.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Idiot

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Thanks, corbe .. I not only look marvelous, I feel good.

Apparently I started a war and I am now "her" .... 

I only have maybe one person on ignore.  I like to see what everyone thinks, and I have no objection whatever to people who want to cling to their hatred of Trump.  There's lots to hate about him.

I just don't see the point.  I want to save my hate for Obama and Hillary.  I only have so much hate and I want to use it wisely.
All I know is that our president needs our prayers.  :laugh:

Online corbe

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Thanks, corbe .. I not only look marvelous, I feel good.

Apparently I started a war and I am now "her" .... 

I only have maybe one person on ignore.  I like to see what everyone thinks, and I have no objection whatever to people who want to cling to their hatred of Trump.  There's lots to hate about him.

I just don't see the point.  I want to save my hate for Obama and Hillary.  I only have so much hate and I want to use it wisely.

   'her' is much more respectful than that 'other' woman, I too only have 1 person on Ignore,  last casualty of the campaign, only because I always seem to busy to take him/her/it off, I do always read their stuff now.

    Your certainly right about the Hate thing @Emjay it can consume, life is just to damn short, we're older, wiser now.
   
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Victoria33

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All I know is that our president needs our prayers. 
@mrpotatohead

The "hate" word is a useless throw away word people use to attack someone who doesn't believe like they believe.
You, however, have the right thought - Prayer for the country is necessary now and for the next four years.  Goodnight, mr potato.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Then maybe you should start.  It might improve things.

 :thumbsup3:

Offline Smokin Joe

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  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
I'm a lawyer, so I'm usually analytical as hell when it comes to this stuff, but I think there's a pretty good argument for fighting dirty versus not fighting at all....
What ever happened to just fighting cleanly? I really get ticked off at the presentation of false dichotomies as justification for pulling the same sort of crap the Liberals have, because after 4 years of "our side" doing that, there won't be a 'good fight', just a back and forth at the gutter level until the Republic finally implodes. Damnit, Bill, as an attorney, you shouldn't resort to those tactics--not in an honest discussion.
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The single biggest problem the conservative movement has is that the primary schools, the colleges, the media, and the entertainment elites are all lined up against us.  Because of that, it is extremely difficult to get our message out without having it overwhelmed by the above-mentioned opinion-shapers.  That's particularly true when it comes to the young.  So we gradually see our vision of the country eroded.   The messaging from the left is inexorable, and we tend to lose the public on issue after issue because they get them young, and keep most of them.
No argument on the methods of the left, but when the heralds of this spoke out back in the '60s, the REST of the GOP pooh-poohed the idea..and poohed it when it became more apparent, and backpedaled through the Nixon years in the face of a lying and aggressive press and lost a war because of that, and continued to "compromise" ever losing ground, and never gaining. Blame the Party, blame the incumbents, blame the voters, blame whoever, but the reality is that strident name calling and using the methods of the left will lose. That's their game, they're good at it, but the kids who are getting out in the world are realizing that they've been sold a bill of goods by charlatans. Sound like the charlatans at our mutual peril. The problem is that a clear difference between the GOP and the Liberals STILL does not exist if the tactics are just more of the same.
If you want a personality contest for POTUS, we'll just get to full-blown Idiocracy that much sooner.
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What the conservative movement -- and the country as a whole  -- needs is a return of the skeptical, mistrustful voter/consumer of information.  We need more people -- especially young people - to quit relying on what they are told by those elites.  We're not going to have a shot at persuading anyone if that dynamic does not change.
no argument there, but I honestly think this isn't the path to a thinking electorate, unless you want them to shrug it off and think they'll have another beer because they think all politicians are cut from different colors of the same cloth.
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Trump is an embarrassing doofus in many respects.  But I don't think there is any doubt that he has been successful at raising mistrust of the media to historic highs.  The almost embarrassingly simplistic-sounding "fake news" label has actually caught on, to the point where I think a lot more people are being much more skeptical when they hear/see things in the media.  Even if they ultimately don't agree with Trump, that burst of independent-thinking is absolutely invaluable.  I don't think we as conservatives can survive without it.
Are we really getting distrust of the media, or distrust of the message. The Leftists believe sources telling them what they want to hear, and the Right is getting the same way. In the meantime, the information people get is as varied as the sources, and no one knows what to believe because it is all hype.
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If we burn down the house of trusting the press, the soil that remains will be fertile for conservatives because we are right.  But our message is never going to get a fair airing is someone doesn't kneecap those opinion-shaping leftist elites.  And Trump -- for all his many flaws -- is the first party leader we've had who has actually done that to this extent.
Kneecap 'em with facts. Call them out on their egregious lies, but do so in such a way that remains credible and doesn't fade into the background clutter of apocalyptic visions the average American is pelted with.
New York hasn't flooded out. California hasn't fallen into the sea. The planet hasn't turned into a scorched desert, the sun hasn't blown up and Yellowstone hasn't erupted. Let's have a call for calm and common sense (the real thing)--and leadership. Not just a mob hot on the heels of their champion striking back at everyone they've been pissed off at.
If it's revenge Americans seek for all the mess the  Liberals have made, serve it up on ice.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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All I know is that our president needs our prayers.  :laugh:
No argument, there.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline musiclady

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I don't call it whining.  You can if you like.  I was simply wondering what the point is at this present time in all this self-indulgent criticism.

Trump is not my cup of tea and accusing me of being in lockstep with him is ridiculous.

But he is now the president and I think he deserves a chance.  He's done much better so far than I could have hoped.

I certainly don't want to abridge your right to your opinions.  Just don't know what you think you're accomplishing.

I don't "think" I'm accomplishing anything. I'm expressing legitimate opinions about a deeply flawed human being that you are free to give "a chance" to become someone different because he won an election, and I am free to continue the opinion I had before.

Richard Nixon was insecure and paranoid before he was elected. Bill Clinton was an amoral abuser and  Barack Obama a narcissistic child.

None of them was magically transformed when he became.president.

I'll go with history. Trump's childishness, liberalism, self absorption as well as his lack of a moral core are still who he is.

If my posting my opinions bugs you so much, feel free to put me on Ignore, because I'm not going to stop. I get that you want me to, but I have no obligation to do what you'd like me to do, and will continue to give my opinions, and hope that @Victoria33 (and the rest of us...... there are many) does as well.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 01:59:48 pm by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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All I know is that our president needs our prayers.  :laugh:

Just for the record, throwing legitimate opinions away by calling them "hate" is absurd.

And there is no war here. This is a discussion board and we are disagreeing.

It's what adults do, whether male or female.

And yes, the president needs our prayer.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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@mrpotatohead

The "hate" word is a useless throw away word people use to attack someone who doesn't believe like they believe.
You, however, have the right thought - Prayer for the country is necessary now and for the next four years.  Goodnight, mr potato.

 :amen:

Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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If my posting my opinions bugs you so much, feel free to put me on Ignore, because I'm not going to stop. I get that you want me to, but I have no obligation to obey you.


That is exactly what they want. They want to turn this place into an echo chamber where we post huge threads on a "Day of the life" of Trump and fawn over him like the old FR threads on Bush, and with no criticism. Or any slight criticism of Trump we all reflexively post the same same attacks and tired memes of viking kitties, and threats of violence.


Just like Free Republic.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 01:35:19 pm by Weird Tolkienish Figure »

Offline Mod2

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That is exactly what they want. They want to turn this place into an echo chamber where we post huge threads on a "Day of the life" of Trump and fawn over him like the old FR threads on Bush, and with no criticism. Or any slight criticism of Trump we all reflexively post the same same attacks and tired memes of viking kitties, and threats of violence.


Just like Free Republic.

myst has publicly and repeatedly said this is not going to happen. She has made it abundantly clear to the mod team that it is not going to happen and warned us to make sure it does not happen.

The sooner people stop worrying it is going to happen, the less work there is for us.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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myst has publicly and repeatedly said this is not going to happen. She has made it abundantly clear to the mod team that it is not going to happen and warned us to make sure it does not happen.

The sooner people stop worrying it is going to happen, the less work there is for us.


I don't disagree with you I have full confidence in you guys and Myst.


I'm saying there is a contingent here that wants that, you have to agree, no?

Offline musiclady

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   'her' is much more respectful than that 'other' woman, I too only have 1 person on Ignore,  last casualty of the campaign, only because I always seem to busy to take him/her/it off, I do always read their stuff now.

    Your certainly right about the Hate thing @Emjay it can consume, life is just to damn short, we're older, wiser now.
   

That's why I do not hate people........ I didn't even hate Obama.  I hate what he did.  What he stood for.  But not him.

I'm not saying that there aren't people who do hate Trump.  There definitely are.

It's just that @Victoria33 and I aren't among them.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.