Author Topic: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself  (Read 6407 times)

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Online roamer_1

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2017, 10:12:27 pm »
Take everything from Hudson's Bay to the Bay of Campeche, From the Western Divide to the Mississippi (or the Alleghenies), and let the rest of it find a new name. Clean up the Liberal cesspools, reroute the roads and rail lines around the 'hot' areas, and you'd have a viable country.

Yeah... Somebody's gonna have to do something about Atlanta... and Dallas/Fort Worth... and KC... But yeah.

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2017, 10:45:06 pm »
If you're serious about it, y'all would do better to raise the Rebel flag over the state house. Dixie'd come a running, as would the mountain states. There ain't a redneck boy on the planet that don't know what that flag is for, and most of them wore that patch at some time in their youth...

There's only three flags on the planet that mean anything to me - One is Old Glory, one is that Rebel flag, and the other says 'Don't Tread on Me'.
Yep, yep, and yep. I'll give you three guesses which 3 flags I have outside my front door.  :whistle:
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2017, 10:48:46 pm »
Yeah... Somebody's gonna have to do something about Atlanta... and Dallas/Fort Worth... and KC... But yeah.
I know Atlanta has grown, but I didn't know it was west of the mountains... :laugh:
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2017, 10:49:23 pm »
Yep, yep, and yep. I'll give you three guesses which 3 flags I have outside my front door.  :whistle:
I have all three, too. My ancestors have fought under all of them.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 10:50:02 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online roamer_1

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2017, 11:23:59 pm »
Yep, yep, and yep. I'll give you three guesses which 3 flags I have outside my front door.  :whistle:

@Idaho_Cowboy
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Dittos. What a coincidence, eh?

The point being, there's something a whole lot bigger than Texas...

Online roamer_1

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2017, 11:25:45 pm »
I know Atlanta has grown, but I didn't know it was west of the mountains... :laugh:

I didn't read you close enough... I just naturally drug right across the Mason Dixon line east of the Mississippi  :shrug:

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2017, 11:28:35 pm »
@Idaho_Cowboy
@Smokin Joe

Dittos. What a coincidence, eh?

The point being, there's something a whole lot bigger than Texas...
Yep. Don't get me wrong, it'd be important, and with North Dakota and Texas, the first and second place oil producers in the current US, along with significant refinery capacity would be present., not to mention the bread basket of North America.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2017, 11:36:38 pm »
Don't forget - Texas Independence Day is March 2nd.

Is that the day Ma Richards term expired?

Online roamer_1

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2017, 11:51:07 pm »
Yep. Don't get me wrong, it'd be important, and with North Dakota and Texas, the first and second place oil producers in the current US, along with significant refinery capacity would be present., not to mention the bread basket of North America.

The big deal about NoDak is it gets us close enough to smuggle cheese.  :whistle:

Actually the problem is that the Northern Plains and Rockies are land locked. Without access to SOME ports somewhere, there is no long term viability, unless the South and Southwest (or particularly Texas) goes along... Or we get a good deal from Canada... Or Alberta, Saskatchewan, NWT, and Yukon throw in so we can get to AK...


Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #34 on: February 14, 2017, 12:07:27 am »
The big deal about NoDak is it gets us close enough to smuggle cheese.  :whistle:

Actually the problem is that the Northern Plains and Rockies are land locked. Without access to SOME ports somewhere, there is no long term viability, unless the South and Southwest (or particularly Texas) goes along... Or we get a good deal from Canada... Or Alberta, Saskatchewan, NWT, and Yukon throw in so we can get to AK...

Well if Michigan can get help from Ohio, PA, and the NY state Northern alliance  securing Lakes Erie and Ontario. North Dakota and Michigan can lay siege to Duluth Minnesota. After the fall of Duluth you folks can have free access to the Atlantic ocean by way of the great lakes. We also have goods for trade like Timber, Iron, Copper and a whole range of produce..

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #35 on: February 14, 2017, 12:15:57 am »
The big deal about NoDak is it gets us close enough to smuggle cheese.  :whistle:

Actually the problem is that the Northern Plains and Rockies are land locked. Without access to SOME ports somewhere, there is no long term viability, unless the South and Southwest (or particularly Texas) goes along... Or we get a good deal from Canada... Or Alberta, Saskatchewan, NWT, and Yukon throw in so we can get to AK...
True enough.

The strip from the ND border with Canada to Texas, and securing the Mississippi River would allow for ports in Tx, but we'd likely need more access, or switch to loading petroleum exports offshore--which is do-able. It'd be nice to pull in Minnesota, but it's pretty Liberal. Iron mines and Great Lakes ports would be good, MT, ND, and WY have coal, oil and Natural Gas. and ND is a net exporter of electricity as well as oil, gas, and NGLs. Much of the grid in the western part of ND has been revamped to handle the load of thousands of pump jacks and other production infrastructure. Rail transport, pipelines, and even barges on the rivers would become important. (I can see a lock system on the upper Missouri, as originally was intended, for the purpose of barging grain south, and bringing in equipment, tubulars, oil tools north on the return trip.)
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Sanguine

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #36 on: February 14, 2017, 12:26:19 am »
Is that the day Ma Richards term expired?

We should celebrate that.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2017, 12:27:49 am »
We should celebrate that.

But, no, it's this:


Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #38 on: February 14, 2017, 01:23:13 am »
True enough.

The strip from the ND border with Canada to Texas, and securing the Mississippi River would allow for ports in Tx, but we'd likely need more access, or switch to loading petroleum exports offshore--which is do-able. It'd be nice to pull in Minnesota, but it's pretty Liberal. Iron mines and Great Lakes ports would be good, MT, ND, and WY have coal, oil and Natural Gas. and ND is a net exporter of electricity as well as oil, gas, and NGLs. Much of the grid in the western part of ND has been revamped to handle the load of thousands of pump jacks and other production infrastructure. Rail transport, pipelines, and even barges on the rivers would become important. (I can see a lock system on the upper Missouri, as originally was intended, for the purpose of barging grain south, and bringing in equipment, tubulars, oil tools north on the return trip.)
And although all this alternate future history is fun and all that, the bottom line remains that we need to get the die-hard liberals back in their padded cell and deprogram a couple of generations.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline ABX

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2017, 02:24:13 am »
I believe one thing the article greatly over-estimates is the loyalty people have to States, especially among younger generations. Even here in Texas, which has a very unique identity for folks from here (we already think of ourselves as another country; younger generations don't see it that way).

Even if the States initially split up as described here, they would immediately become internally factioned with other groups people are more loyal to: religious, political, various identity groups. You would also have charismatic leaders from a wide range of backgrounds bringing people together.  Dixie rising again would be replaced by the Southern Baptist Union. California would rip down her spine into separate entities which long didn't identify with each other. Texas would faction with the South West part of the State, largely Hispanic joining with other highly Hispanic areas of the country as a La Familia union. Eastern Texas, if more identifies with the deep South and would be taken in rather quickly by the Southern Baptist Union. The panhandle would split off and join the grain belt of Oklahoma, Kansas, and Nebraska, instead of fighting their neighbors, profiting and selling food to whomever pays for protection. Much of the North East rural areas will isolate itself while large cities like New York and Philadelphia would become city-states using whatever resources it has to try to buy protection for as long as it could.

You would most likely have charismatic leaders rising in major areas, some offering religious salvation on a mass scale, others trying to be warlords. The 90% of the population that doesn't want to fight (fear, lack of skill, or lack of desire) would follow whomever seemed the strongest and gathered the most to him.

But when the war goes hot, it won't last long. You wouldn't need an EMP to cripple the electrical system. With the country already factioned like this, power, water, and food supplies would be held together with threads of trust and payments. One or two strategically placed attacks could cripple the power grid for the entire Eastern seaboard. California could be cut off from water quickly. Las Vegas could be shut down in a few days by cutting off its water supply, as would Phoenix.

Oil refineries are very easy targets and we can expect some sort of early attack to cripple them. It may not even be from one of the factions, but a lone eco-terrorist who believes he can change the world, in the dark of the night, with a small explosive can do a lot of harm.

One of the biggest battles won't even be for land, it will be for information. Who can control not only the media (centered in 4-5 major hubs) but also the backbone of the internet. The latter controls so much, a disruption could cripple supply chains faster than bombs could.

And of course, one has to consider foreign intervention. Immediately after the split, just like in the time of our Revolution and Civil War, the various factions will reach out to countries for support and partnership. Canada could end up becoming a strategic partner with States from Michigan to Maine, creating a dotted line border and a new protectorate. Mexico would partner with La Familia from SW Texas to Southern California.  Europe would see quick partners with the Gulf to the East Coast. China, no doubt, would swallow California in influence quickly.

It would be over far faster than is written here. Those who dream of their own personal revolution or civil war, taking pot shots at the enemy with their old hunting rifle will be greatly disappointed. It will be a cold war built mostly on negotiation and very, very strategic action, not a large scale hot war.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2017, 05:42:49 am »
If you're serious about it, y'all would do better to raise the Rebel flag over the state house. Dixie'd come a running, as would the mountain states. There ain't a redneck boy on the planet that don't know what that flag is for, and most of them wore that patch at some time in their youth...

There's only three flags on the planet that mean anything to me - One is Old Glory, one is that Rebel flag, and the other says 'Don't Tread on Me'.

True dat. You'd see about half the nation align with Texas. The Northeast would be gone, as would the West Coast (if not invaded by China), and Mexico might get froggy in the Southwest but probably get beat back. The Great Lakes states would be the wild card - Canada, Northeast, or Texas?

Edited: You'd have many state breakups too. Illinois would dump Chicagoland in a heartbeat, just like Minnesota would dump Minneapolis and Missouri St. Louis and maybe even KC. You might even see rural areas of several states combining into one.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 05:49:57 am by Free Vulcan »
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2017, 05:55:25 am »

I'll go with a separate California. We'll lease you access to our shipping ports, and to the internet, and will sell you food. Come here for vacations to surf, ski, golf year round etc.

Hopefully I can get dual citizenship with relatives in Oregon, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Wyoming, Texas, Florida and British Columbia.

You can fight among yourselves, over who gets to have Chicago, DC, etc.
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Offline 240B

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2017, 07:39:18 am »
Yeah maybe. But I dunno... More guns per square inch and more independent-minded people in the Rocky Mountain West, with the most defensible terrain, other than maybe the swamps. As projected force, not so much, but all dug in and hard to move... nuther story. If I had to do it anywhere, I'd be doing it right here.

Not that it matters, because the states would not act that way - Texas might be a linchpin, but if they do it right, Dixie and the desert, and the Rockies will go with them, and probably the midwest too.
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« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 07:42:58 am by 240B »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2017, 08:53:21 am »
I'll go with a separate California. We'll lease you access to our shipping ports, and to the internet, and will sell you food. Come here for vacations to surf, ski, golf year round etc.

Hopefully I can get dual citizenship with relatives in Oregon, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Wyoming, Texas, Florida and British Columbia.

You can fight among yourselves, over who gets to have Chicago, DC, etc.
Have fun making pasta out of bread flour. Besides, the internet is in Utah. All of it, stashed on hard drives...
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 08:54:31 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Gefn

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2017, 09:13:07 am »
I think NJ would do fine. The Sopranos would threaten to send Snooki to the rest of the states.

Forgetaboutit!

Snooki? Hell, we will also throw in Chris Christie!  :silly:

It's a deal you wouldn't want to refuse!  ****slapping

(If you do, we will make the whole country smell and look like Exit 13 of the turnpike )
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 09:16:42 am by Freya »
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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2017, 11:51:36 am »
I'll go with a separate California. We'll lease you access to our shipping ports, and to the internet, and will sell you food. Come here for vacations to surf, ski, golf year round etc.

Hopefully I can get dual citizenship with relatives in Oregon, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Wyoming, Texas, Florida and British Columbia.

You can fight among yourselves, over who gets to have Chicago, DC, etc.

/snicker

California doesn't "have" the internet - nobody does, that's the main point of it - and access to ports through Mexico will be far cheaper and far more reliable than through California.  Sure we'll come take vacations there, and you Californians can wait on us hand and foot in our luxury hotels and go home st night to your third world hovels, as in other beach resort countries. 

Good luck with that one. 

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2017, 12:01:09 pm »
I think NJ would do fine. The Sopranos would threaten to send Snooki to the rest of the states.

Forgetaboutit!

Snooki? Hell, we will also throw in Chris Christie!  :silly:

It's a deal you wouldn't want to refuse!  ****slapping

(If you do, we will make the whole country smell and look like Exit 13 of the turnpike )

Oh yeah. Is that some kind of threat?

How does a little mutually assured destruction grab ya?



Offline Gefn

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2017, 02:24:27 pm »
@Cripplecreek

My eyes!

I'm blind!

I'll never make another joke again!
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 02:25:21 pm by Freya »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2017, 11:21:24 pm »
Oh yeah. Is that some kind of threat?

How does a little mutually assured destruction grab ya?


Great idea, especially if you can ship it F.O.B.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline skeeter

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Re: A Marine explains which state would win if the US declared war on itself
« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2017, 11:27:12 pm »
Oh yeah. Is that some kind of threat?

How does a little mutually assured destruction grab ya?



There ain't enough Bean-o in the armory to handle that threat.