The psychiatrist who wrote the guide to personality disorders says diagnosing Trump is ...

[bigheadfred]

I don't look at it as bashing trump but more as holding his feet to the fire. Cause god knows if I held his head close to the flame when his hairspray ignited I would have to file an environmental impact statement.

Now if he came out wearing something nice from his daughter's clothing as a showy support of a failing American business and not just support of her bottommmm--line I could cut him some slack--mostly necessarily in the hip region.

[Quix]

I would disagree. He is a rather shallow and obnoxious man, and wholly lacking in character.

I think you're treating him much more as a cartoon character than a real human, in that assessment.

Certainly he can be obnoxious. He can be shallow. I don't see him lacking in character though there's significant chunks of his character I'd like to see markedly different.

In the interviews with his kids . . . their body language affirmed that they were telling the raw candid truth as they had experienced it with their dad. They did not describe the sort of person you describe.

[Quix]

I think Reagan was the mentally healthiest President we've had since  Ike.

All the rest had serious mental issues, imho.

[roamer_1]

I think you're treating him much more as a cartoon character than a real human, in that assessment.

A caricature much of his own making.

Certainly he can be obnoxious. He can be shallow. I don't see him lacking in character though there's significant chunks of his character I'd like to see markedly different.

And petty, and vindictive, and a reflexive liar, and self-aggrandizing... It goes on and on. I cannot find an ounce of character in the man, by any measurement thereof. Not an ounce.

In the interviews with his kids . . . their body language affirmed that they were telling the raw candid truth as they had experienced it with their dad. They did not describe the sort of person you describe.

I don't find his kids particularly remarkable either. I will reserve my opinion on them, and whether any character in them is attributable to their father, albeit that if they are of a remarkable character, I dare say I would be finding that influence elsewhere.

[alicewonders]

I appreciate your rational assessment of Trump's mental status @Quix - I would tend to agree with most of it. 

I still say that @Victoria33 is diagnosing by emotion and extreme bias.  The pronouncements she makes are so over the top and with nothing to back them up!     

[bigheadfred]

I appreciate your rational assessment of Trump's mental status @Quix - I would tend to agree with most of it. 

I still say that @Victoria33 is diagnosing by emotion and extreme bias.  The pronouncements she makes are so over the top and with nothing to back them up!     

In a country beset by extreme and distressing inequality, America’s premier hustler sold the electorate a wagonload of beguiling and deceptive tales about what’s gone wrong, who’s to blame, and how he’ll make things better. He persuaded not through rational argument, analysis, and truth-telling, but rather by manipulating our imperfect reasoning and our unreasoning emotions. Although this playbook has been around for a long time, Americans have never witnessed this level of mastery before. Trump’s unanticipated success dramatically illustrates the importance of understanding the “mind games” that allowed him to win, despite breaking almost every rule of evidence, logic, and propriety.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiXmorzqYvSAhXIzlQKHdMfCnAQFghHMAc&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.psychologytoday.com%2Fblog%2Fdangerous-ideas%2F201612%2Fthe-mind-games-donald-trump&usg=AFQjCNEII9-m6QhprW6-6Xihaa9UZxcx1g&sig2=hsnqJXWWfx1mWxFpjfHMiw

[bigheadfred]

Why real-world governments don’t have the consent of the governed – and why it matters

A government that rules without consent isn’t necessarily a bad government. In the terminology of the current front-runner for the Republican nomination for our most powerful political office, it might even turn out to be super-classy and hugely terrific. But it should be viewed with greater suspicion and kept on a tighter leash than a government that genuinely derives its just powers from the consent of the governed.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=17&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwin9qKCrIvSAhVMzVQKHRlkBmIQFghtMBA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fnews%2Fvolokh-conspiracy%2Fwp%2F2016%2F01%2F27%2Fwhy-real-world-governments-dont-have-the-consent-of-the-governed-and-why-it-matters%2F&usg=AFQjCNEEKeSe8d1_T-iqS1wnRB6wZkgKKw&sig2=uM5A07-TJwVXkGsutfXGOQ

[Quix]

A caricature much of his own making.

And petty, and vindictive, and a reflexive liar, and self-aggrandizing... It goes on and on. I cannot find an ounce of character in the man, by any measurement thereof. Not an ounce.

I don't find his kids particularly remarkable either. I will reserve my opinion on them, and whether any character in them is attributable to their father, albeit that if they are of a remarkable character, I dare say I would be finding that influence elsewhere.

You might watch the youtube interviews with his kids. I think there are 3 or 4 of them.

[Quix]

I appreciate your rational assessment of Trump's mental status @Quix - I would tend to agree with most of it. 

I still say that @Victoria33 is diagnosing by emotion and extreme bias.  The pronouncements she makes are so over the top and with nothing to back them up!     

I much appreciate your kind words.

I'm not so clear about where Dear @Victoria33 is getting her fierce assessments from of Trump. I'm sure she could cite chapter and verse from his life history--which she has studied far more than I.

I do think she may well be over-weighting some of the "evidence" in a direction that confirms some of her other constructions on reality, for whatever reasons.

I have found her general professional perspectives and skills to be normally top flight, however.

[Victoria33]

@Quix

Psychologist Gartner was speaking only of a Narcissistic Disorder when he said: But “as someone who has been an expert and a teacher of severe personality disorders in 35 years, this is the worst case I have seen in my career." 

I agreed with that but also think Trump has a learning disability based on his behavior in his past life and now.  He said in an interview he got news from the TV rather than reading about it and that is a clue as well as he had his company people give him one sheet of written paper and then tell him what it said and that is what he is now doing as president - one sheet of written paper and the person telling him what it says.  He has also said he didn't know he put Bannon on the National Security Committee because he didn't know what the executive order said when he signed it.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

@Victoria33
I am not a shrink - But I can smell a shyster a mile away. And Trump is a con man from the word go - similar to Bill Clinton, in that regard. I will disagree with you lightly wrt his self-destruction. He operates in a world of self-created chaos - He does it on purpose to get his way. The pressure will never get to him, because pressure and destruction are always shunted off of him directly, on to dang near anything around him. There is always a scapegoat under construction in his organizational process, specifically designed to take the brunt of the blame, being sacrificed to preserve Trump himself...

He'll walk away untouched. It is everything around him that will be destroyed. Watch and see.

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

@Victoria33
I am not a shrink - But I can smell a shyster a mile away. And Trump is a con man from the word go - similar to Bill Clinton, in that regard. I will disagree with you lightly wrt his self-destruction. He operates in a world of self-created chaos - He does it on purpose to get his way. The pressure will never get to him, because pressure and destruction are always shunted off of him directly, on to dang near anything around him. There is always a scapegoat under construction in his organizational process, specifically designed to take the brunt of the blame, being sacrificed to preserve Trump himself...

He'll walk away untouched. It is everything around him that will be destroyed. Watch and see.

I've thought about this since he won: I don't know if this is all just a big act. I guess people that know him say he's different in person. Trump is a big reality TV guy and he has done things like WWF. I don't know if this is Trump's act or what.


Trump acts on Twitter like he would fight the immigration EO defeat all the way to the bitter end, then he just ups and drops it. Makes me wonder if there's another side to Trump.


What's weirder the guy who's a mentally ill megalomaniac or the guy who wants people to think he is?


If there is a more serious side to Trump, I wish he could be that person all day every day, at least for as long as he's President.


I can't imagine this much conflict and acrimony, not to mention the anger with this guy, is good for a 70 year old's health.

[roamer_1]

You might watch the youtube interviews with his kids. I think there are 3 or 4 of them.

I don't think I would find it decisive. His family are props (like w/ any politician), and while I am sure you'll think it reflexive, body language can be coached.

I will prefer to rely upon his record... which is not in his favor. Nuff said.

[Quix]

@Quix

Psychologist Gartner was speaking only of a Narcissistic Disorder when he said: But “as someone who has been an expert and a teacher of severe personality disorders in 35 years, this is the worst case I have seen in my career." 

I agreed with that but also think Trump has a learning disability based on his behavior in his past life and now.  He said in an interview he got news from the TV rather than reading about it and that is a clue as well as he had his company people give him one sheet of written paper and then tell him what it said and that is what he is now doing as president - one sheet of written paper and the person telling him what it says.  He has also said he didn't know he put Bannon on the National Security Committee because he didn't know what the executive order said when he signed it.

That's pretty concerning, alright. He really needs to get some serious training and hard work done to overcome the dyslexia. It's causing him and thereby the country far too much risk, hazard, trouble, imho.

I still think Trump's narcissism is significantly less than Nixon's, Carter's, Dillbo's, Shrillery's, and certainly OThuga's. And, I think that the last 3 in that list were far more virulent, nasty, mean, vindictive, bone-marrow arrogant, tyrannical . . . than Trump's.

I find Trump's narcissism more . . . shallow . . . bravado . . . banty-rooster stuff.

[bigheadfred]

I've thought about this since he won: I don't know if this is all just a big act. I guess people that know him say he's different in person. Trump is a big reality TV guy and he has done things like WWF. I don't know if this is Trump's act or what.


Trump acts on Twitter like he would fight the immigration EO defeat all the way to the bitter end, then he just ups and drops it. Makes me wonder if there's another side to Trump.




What's weirder the guy who's a mentally ill megalomaniac or the guy who wants people to think he is?


If there is a more serious side to Trump, I wish he could be that person all day every day, at least for as long as he's President.


I can't imagine this much conflict and acrimony, not to mention the anger with this guy, is good for a 70 year old's health.

Imo, trump has spent so much of his life perfecting his stick, his con, that to try and change that now would be more harmful to his health than keeping it up. The Jerry Garcia Syndrome.

[roamer_1]

I've thought about this since he won: I don't know if this is all just a big act. I guess people that know him say he's different in person. Trump is a big reality TV guy and he has done things like WWF. I don't know if this is Trump's act or what.

That there are two personas is really all you need to know, with the exception that there may be more personas beyond the two... Then one must try to suss out which of the two (or more) personas is true, if any of them.... Typically con. Absolutely typical. And he will shed whichever skin he is currently wearing the moment it becomes profitable.

None of it matters. it's all just object-oriented show. There isn't a solid agenda because there isn't a principled thing he's standing on.. It's all emotion. and that's the clue. Better wear your tin patch.

[Victoria33]

That's pretty concerning, alright. He really needs to get some serious training and hard work done to overcome the dyslexia. It's causing him and thereby the country far too much risk, hazard, trouble, imho.
I still think Trump's narcissism is significantly less than Nixon's, Carter's, Dillbo's, Shrillery's, and certainly OThuga's. And, I think that the last 3 in that list were far more virulent, nasty, mean, vindictive, bone-marrow arrogant, tyrannical . . . than Trump's.
I find Trump's narcissism more . . . shallow . . . bravado . . . banty-rooster stuff.

@Quix
@roamer_1
@Suppressed

Quix, I think you still don't understand what I am saying.  I'm fairly sure he has a learning disability based on his father's words about his behavior when he was a very small child until he shipped him off to military school to try to change his behavior - that is what the father said.  Then, I saw the verbal disability at work  during his campaign speeches, knew he had a fourth grade vocabulary and that wouldn't happen without a learning disability present. 

He knows he is defective (learning disability), and he attacks others constantly to prove he is not defective, make them smaller than he is (just like he physically attacked his music teacher when he was in the fifth grade; after that, he moved from physical attacking to verbal attacking).  His attacking consumes him, he MUST do it.  He will do it to world leaders because he MUST to keep proving he is the best, not defective.  The problem is, he can never prove he is the best - he will keep trying until his life ends.  As a private person, no one would care what he does.  However, being president puts the country at risk. 

[roamer_1]

He knows he is defective (learning disability), and he attacks others constantly to prove he is not defective, make them smaller than he is (just like he physically attacked his music teacher when he was in the fifth grade; after that, he moved from physical attacking to verbal attacking).  His attacking consumes him, he MUST do it.  He will do it to world leaders because he MUST to keep proving he is the best, not defective.  The problem is, he can never prove he is the best - he will keep trying until his life ends.  As a private person, no one would care what he does.  However, being president puts the country at risk.

@Victoria33
I don't know the 'what' of it, but I can see that spirit of what you're saying in him. In spades.

@Quix

[Quix]

@Quix
@roamer_1
@Suppressed

Quix, I think you still don't understand what I am saying.  I'm fairly sure he has a learning disability based on his father's words about his behavior when he was a very small child until he shipped him off to military school to try to change his behavior - that is what the father said.  Then, I saw the verbal disability at work  during his campaign speeches, knew he had a fourth grade vocabulary and that wouldn't happen without a learning disability present. 

He knows he is defective (learning disability), and he attacks others constantly to prove he is not defective, make them smaller than he is (just like he physically attacked his music teacher when he was in the fifth grade; after that, he moved from physical attacking to verbal attacking).  His attacking consumes him, he MUST do it.  He will do it to world leaders because he MUST to keep proving he is the best, not defective.  The problem is, he can never prove he is the best - he will keep trying until his life ends.  As a private person, no one would care what he does.  However, being president puts the country at risk. 

Thanks  for the elaboration. I understand, now, that his learning disability is broader than 'mere' dyslexia.

The attacking stuff is certainly an important issue.

Thanks.

[ConstitutionRose]

@Victoria33
I am not a shrink - But I can smell a shyster a mile away. And Trump is a con man from the word go - similar to Bill Clinton, in that regard. I will disagree with you lightly wrt his self-destruction. He operates in a world of self-created chaos - He does it on purpose to get his way. The pressure will never get to him, because pressure and destruction are always shunted off of him directly, on to dang near anything around him. There is always a scapegoat under construction in his organizational process, specifically designed to take the brunt of the blame, being sacrificed to preserve Trump himself...

He'll walk away untouched. It is everything around him that will be destroyed. Watch and see.

There was a moment during the primaries when I said "Oh my God I know exactly who this man is".  I worked as a legal assistant for a real estate law firm.  ALL of our clients were Trump in one form or another.  Some of them actually much more successful as real estate developers than Trump.  They did not feel the need for self-promotion that Trump does.  Some of them were very like Trump.  I wouldn't trust the "very like Trump" with my lunch, much less my country.  I can write pages on that, but I won't.   I watched the careers and lives of "the very like Trump men" and I see things much as Victoria33 does.

[Sanguine]

That's pretty concerning, alright. He really needs to get some serious training and hard work done to overcome the dyslexia. It's causing him and thereby the country far too much risk, hazard, trouble, imho.

I still think Trump's narcissism is significantly less than Nixon's, Carter's, Dillbo's, Shrillery's, and certainly OThuga's. And, I think that the last 3 in that list were far more virulent, nasty, mean, vindictive, bone-marrow arrogant, tyrannical . . . than Trump's.

I find Trump's narcissism more . . . shallow . . . bravado . . . banty-rooster stuff.

I tend to agree with you, Quix. 

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Quix
@roamer_1
@Suppressed

Quix, I think you still don't understand what I am saying.  I'm fairly sure he has a learning disability

No one gives a damn what you are "fairly sure of" @Victoria33  If you are going to spread your opinion as clinical gospel like a virus on this forum, provide a link that supports your "fair surety" -- or STHU about it.

I think this is a reasonable request @mystery-ak .  Do you agree?

[Quix]

I tend to agree with you, Quix. 

Thanks for your kind agreement.

I've just seen him surprise even the critics repeatedly . . . have observed him alter what seemed like strong, emotionally held stands. Yet, he compromised or laid aside such priorities. Maybe he's learned something negotiating over the years. Maybe he's somewhat mellowed with age.

[Quix]

No one gives a damn what you are "fairly sure of" @Victoria33  If you are going to spread your opinion as clinical gospel like a virus on this forum, provide a link that supports your "fair surety" -- or STHU about it.

I think this is a reasonable request @mystery-ak .  Do you agree?

Oh, I wouldn't go down that road.

I find @Victoria33 of extremely high integrity and authentic good motivations.

It's fine with me if her emotions are invested in her priorities.

It's OK with me if she's fiercely wary, alarmed etc. re Trump. She's still rational, mutually respectful etc. and I think she deserves similar treatment.

Besides, I learned a long time ago, it's wise to consider the perspectives of those who strongly disagree with you. You might just learn something critical for your life &/or situation.

[XenaLee]

Oh, I wouldn't go down that road.

I find @Victoria33 of extremely high integrity and authentic good motivations.

It's fine with me if her emotions are invested in her priorities.

It's OK with me if she's fiercely wary, alarmed etc. re Trump. She's still rational, mutually respectful etc. and I think she deserves similar treatment.

Besides, I learned a long time ago, it's wise to consider the perspectives of those who strongly disagree with you. You might just learn something critical for your life &/or situation.

I have to say.... I think you handled that lame attempt to stifle free speech from one of the usual suspects really, really well, Quix.  You're a born diplomat.  Kudos.