Author Topic: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?  (Read 8529 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SirLinksALot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,417
  • Gender: Male
SOURCE: AMERICAN THINKER

URL: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/02/are_you_concerned_that_neil_gorsuch_belongs_to_a_farleft_church.html

by Ed Straker



President Obama was criticized by Republicans for attending a church led by Jeremiah Wright, who repeatedly criticized the United States for being, in his own opinion, an evil terrorist nation.  People wondered, how could Obama sit through sermons like that, year after year?  Didn't that mean that at the very least, Obama didn't have any serious problems with what Wright was saying?

Well, we saw after eight years of Obama that that was probably true – that Obama saw America in a bad light.  That's why he kept trying to "fundamentally transform" it.

But what about Supreme Court nominee Neil Gorsuch?  He belongs to a far-left church that embraces marriage redefinition, gun control, and the theory of man-caused global warming.

Quote
He belongs to St. John's Episcopal Church in Boulder, Colo., the Episcopal diocese of Colorado confirmed on Wednesday. Church bulletins show that the judge has been an usher three times in recent months. His wife Louise frequently leads the intercessory prayer and reads the weekly Scripture at Sunday services, and his daughters assist in ceremonial duties during church services as acolytes.

The first word that St. John's uses to describe itself on its website and Facebook page is "inclusive," and the church is led by a female rector. On its website, the church encourages members to write letters to Congress asking for actions addressing climate change.

That's not all.  Its website also calls for members to lobby their congressmen for more gun control. See here:

http://www.stjohnsboulder.org/

And more (See here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4196096/Trump-s-Supreme-Court-pick-belongs-liberal-church.html ):

Quote
Rev. Susan Springer has said she is pro-gay marriage and offers blessings to same-sex couples

The church's Rev. Ted Howard also signed a letter slamming the 'disrespectful rhetoric' directed at Islam as Trump floated a ban on Muslim immigrants[.] ...

Church authorities also appear to be strongly in favor of environmental initiatives and added solar panels to the roof because of 'climate crisis[.]'

As an Episcopalian, it's not as though Gorsuch didn't have other choices:

Quote
A 2004 article in the journal Anglican and Episcopal History examined the two Episcopal churches in Boulder. At the time, the writer described St. John's as the older and more traditional church building, but the more theologically and politically liberal of the two. The churches diverged on the subject of homosexuality, the article said: the other church, St. Aidan's, underlined the word "traditional" on its website while St. John's added the words "AIDS-aware" to indicate its welcome to LGBT people.

So what does this tell us about Gorsuch?  We don't really know. Perhaps he liked the church and simply disregarded its politics.  Though I would think a constitutionalist might find the repeated emphasis on "rights" of refugees and "rights" to marriage for members of the same sex to be ridiculous if not unpleasant to repeatedly listen to.

That's why I wonder if Gorsuch may be sympathetic to some of these causes.  That can have an impact when he is on the court and ruling on matters such as marriage or global warming regulations or increased vetting of people from Muslim countries.

I think, legitimately, if Reverend Wright's comments made you put a question mark by Obama, the politics of St. John's Episcopal Church might make you do the same with Neil Gorsuch.

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2017, 04:16:10 pm »
No.

Offline SirLinksALot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,417
  • Gender: Male

Offline endicom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,113
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2017, 04:31:26 pm »
It's something to look into but it could be that he goes where his wife goes.

Offline ABX

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 900
  • Words full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2017, 04:31:50 pm »
Nope, his personal opinions on Constitutional limitations of the courts (ie originalism) is what matters. Not group identity (the game the left plays).
Many people have many different reasons to attend the church they do, politics may or may not be one of those reasons.

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2017, 04:31:52 pm »
Can you elaborate?

The idiot author even admits he doesn't have a point: "So what does this tell us about Gorsuch?  We don't really know. Perhaps he liked the church and simply disregarded its politics."

But lack of knowledge is obviously insufficient for "Ed Straker" to forebear attempting a smear anyway.

All that really needs to be said is that, as a judge, Gorsuch appears to be beyond reproach.

And as an Episcopalian, he's drawn to whatever Episcopal Church happens to be in town. 
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 04:32:38 pm by r9etb »

Offline SirLinksALot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,417
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2017, 04:35:57 pm »
It would help to know what kind of church (or parish as they are Catholics)  Scalia, Alito, and Thomas attended prior to their confirmation. In other words, is there predictive value in this type of information.

Offline SirLinksALot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,417
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2017, 04:36:43 pm »

But lack of knowledge is obviously insufficient for "Ed Straker" to forebear attempting a smear anyway.

Where is the smear in the article?

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,432
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2017, 04:36:52 pm »
I think it was brought out that their family are long time members of the Episcopal Church, perhaps even a Pastor is in the family lineage and he was a Pastor long ago.

Some of these churches did not veer far left until the last 20 or 25 years.

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,804
  • Gender: Male
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2017, 04:37:13 pm »
Don't care in the slightest.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2017, 04:39:21 pm »
No one was concerned that Obama attended Trinity United in Chicago for 20 years and had anti-American racist Jeremiah Wright as his pastor.

Everyone deluded themselves into believing Obama would not be influenced by being steeped in such a politically adversarial "church".

But then fruits of Obama's tenure speak to how much he actually WAS influenced by his former 'church'.

Today, it's deja vu all over again and everyone is busy crowing about what an amazing Conservative/Scalia-esque Justice Gorsuch will make and tell themselves that the 'church' he is steeped in is not going to influence his thinking.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,804
  • Gender: Male
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2017, 04:46:37 pm »
Today, it's deja vu all over again and everyone is busy crowing about what an amazing Conservative/Scalia-esque Justice Gorsuch will make and tell themselves that the 'church' he is steeped in is not going to influence his thinking.


Let's skip the guessing about the future - there's a bit in the bible against fortune telling.

Has it? He's not exactly a virgin when it comes to being a judge - has his church had any noticeable impact on his rulings?

Not seen anything to indicate it has.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline Suppressed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,921
  • Gender: Male
    • Avatar
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2017, 04:59:17 pm »
And as an Episcopalian, he's drawn to whatever Episcopal Church happens to be in town.
@r9etb @TomSea

There are two Episcopal churches right in town, and he attends the far-left one.

And they have, evidently, been radical even back to the 60s.

Now, this latter is from reports I've read, and I haven't looked into it myself, but it does make me wonder.
+++++++++
“In the outside world, I'm a simple geologist. But in here .... I am Falcor, Defender of the Alliance” --Randy Marsh

“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

Offline Suppressed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,921
  • Gender: Male
    • Avatar
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2017, 05:01:09 pm »

Let's skip the guessing about the future - there's a bit in the bible against fortune telling.

Has it? He's not exactly a virgin when it comes to being a judge - has his church had any noticeable impact on his rulings?

Not seen anything to indicate it has.

The only flaw in that is if one is a believer in the Manchurian Candidate idea, where he could just be biding his time until he gets to SCOTUS.

I think that's a bit far-fetched.
+++++++++
“In the outside world, I'm a simple geologist. But in here .... I am Falcor, Defender of the Alliance” --Randy Marsh

“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,804
  • Gender: Male
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2017, 05:06:32 pm »
The only flaw in that is if one is a believer in the Manchurian Candidate idea, where he could just be biding his time until he gets to SCOTUS.

I think that's a bit far-fetched.

Just a touch.  :laugh:

The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2017, 05:12:08 pm »

Let's skip the guessing about the future - there's a bit in the bible against fortune telling.

I guess the company one keeps and the types of messages, studies and sermons one receives a steady diet of is no longer a measurement of character these days eh? 

Has it? He's not exactly a virgin when it comes to being a judge - has his church had any noticeable impact on his rulings?

Not seen anything to indicate it has.

Nothing to indicate he won't either.

Suffice it to say I certainly will not be surprised at any sudden 'left' turns should he actually get the gig.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline SirLinksALot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,417
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2017, 05:17:40 pm »
Let's take this as a "Warning Sign".

As someone in this forum observed, If you have a choice between going to a church that is conservative and a church that is liberal Why stay at the liberal one?

What motivation will induce you to stay in the liberal one? Are we to believe that Boulder has NO CONSERVATIVE Episcopal parish at all?

On the other hand, Somebody observed that in many “liberal” churches, the congregation is far more faithful and orthodox than the pastor.

I know of an Episcopal priest in the early 90s who was assigned to a parish for 6 months “minding the store” for a priest on sabbatical.

The congregation was stunned and grateful when it became clear that this substitute actually believed that Jesus is the Son of God who died in an entirely sufficient sacrifice for our sins and who imbues us with grace by the working of the Holy Spirit in many ways including the efficacious sacramental pledges.

In other words, they believed — though incoherently because they had been poorly taught and faithlessly shepherded — though their rector was going through the motions.

So I would almost hope that Gorsuch would be more devout and orthodox than his oh so trendy pastor.

But the warning signs are there and there is no reason not to be vigilant.

We can only hope that his RECORD as a judge is the REAL one he would display in the Supreme Court.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 05:19:14 pm by SirLinksALot »

Offline Suppressed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,921
  • Gender: Male
    • Avatar
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2017, 05:36:39 pm »
On the other hand, Somebody observed that in many “liberal” churches, the congregation is far more faithful and orthodox than the pastor.

I hope that's the case.

I have a friend on the vestry of the long-standing local Episcopal church.  The priest set up a special service to take place at the time of Trump's inauguration, and from the pulpit preached about being a witness against evil...obviously directed toward Trump.

When my buddy complained, he expected widespread support for getting politics out of the church.  Instead, there are calls for him to be booted.
+++++++++
“In the outside world, I'm a simple geologist. But in here .... I am Falcor, Defender of the Alliance” --Randy Marsh

“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

Offline Cripplecreek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,718
  • Gender: Male
  • Constitutional Extremist
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2017, 05:46:32 pm »
I hope that's the case.

I have a friend on the vestry of the long-standing local Episcopal church.  The priest set up a special service to take place at the time of Trump's inauguration, and from the pulpit preached about being a witness against evil...obviously directed toward Trump.

When my buddy complained, he expected widespread support for getting politics out of the church.  Instead, there are calls for him to be booted.

Your buddy needs to learn about the history of the Church involvement in politics. America likely wouldn't exist without Colonial Churches speaking up. If he doesn't like the politics of one church he can always find another. Founding fathers like George Whitfield preached long and loudly about freedom and self determination. Its the reason our founders didn't put a separation of church and state in the constitution.



Picture
"It was Sunday morning early in the year 1776.  In the church where Pastor Muhlenberg preached, it was a regular service for his congregation, but a quite different affair for Muhlenberg himself.  Muhlenberg's text for the day was Ecclesiastes 3 where it explains, 'To everything there is a season, a time for every purpose under heaven; a time to be born, and a time to die, a time to plant, and a time to pluck what is planted...'"

"Coming to the end of his sermon, Peter Muhlenberg turned to his congregation and said, 'In the language of the holy writ, there was a time for all things, a time to preach and a time to pray, but those times have passed away.'  As those assembled looked on, Pastor Muhlenberg declared, 'There is a time to fight, and that time is now coming!' Muhlenberg then proceeded to remove his robes revealing, to the shock of his congregation, a military uniform."

"Marching to the back of the church he declared, 'Who among you is with me?' On that day 300 men from his church stood up and joined Peter Muhlenberg. They eventually became the 8th Virginia Brigade fighting for liberty."

"Frederick Muhlenberg, Peter's brother, was against Peter's level of involvement in the war. Peter responded to Frederick writing, 'I am a Clergyman it is true, but I am a member of the Society as well as the poorest Layman, and my Liberty is as dear to me as any man, shall I then sit still and enjoy myself at Home when the best Blood of the Covenant is spilling? ...So far am I from thinking that I act wrong, I am convinced it is my duty to do so and duly I owe to God and my country."



Offline beandog

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 989
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2017, 05:47:33 pm »
I guess the company one keeps and the types of messages, studies and sermons one receives a steady diet of is no longer a measurement of character these days eh? 

Nothing to indicate he won't either.

Suffice it to say I certainly will not be surprised at any sudden 'left' turns should he actually get the gig.
Unfortunately, I won't be surprised either.  Trusting people to do the right thing is always a crap shoot.  Particulary so called conservatives.

Offline EC

  • Shanghaied Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,804
  • Gender: Male
  • Cats rule. Dogs drool.
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2017, 05:48:13 pm »
I guess the company one keeps and the types of messages, studies and sermons one receives a steady diet of is no longer a measurement of character these days eh? 

Never was. Seem to recall the subject of most of the messages, studies and sermons hung around with a lot of thieves, prostitutes and tax collectors.
The universe doesn't hate you. Unless your name is Tsutomu Yamaguchi

Avatar courtesy of Oceander

I've got a website now: Smoke and Ink

Offline jpsb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,141
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2017, 05:50:14 pm »

I think, legitimately, if Reverend Wright's comments made you put a question mark by Obama, the politics of St. John's Episcopal Church might make you do the same with Neil Gorsuch.

Add to that, that he found Trumps' comments about the courts being to political "troubling" and I now have real concerns about Judge Neil Gorsuch. I also note that many leading conservatives do too. We can not afford a another mistake on the SC.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,002
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2017, 05:53:28 pm »
It would help to know what kind of church (or parish as they are Catholics)  Scalia, Alito, and Thomas attended prior to their confirmation. In other words, is there predictive value in this type of information.
I know of no Catholic churches which approve of homosexuality (despite a few well publicized incidents), none which approve of homosexual marriage, and none which approve of abortion (even though I did not see that issue raised in the article, and for all I know Gorsuch's church does not either).
Catholic Doctrine is set pretty much Church wide, and not so much dependent on parish.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline r9etb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,467
  • Gender: Male
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2017, 06:14:03 pm »
Let's take this as a "Warning Sign".

As someone in this forum observed, If you have a choice between going to a church that is conservative and a church that is liberal Why stay at the liberal one?

What motivation will induce you to stay in the liberal one? Are we to believe that Boulder has NO CONSERVATIVE Episcopal parish at all?

On the other hand, Somebody observed that in many “liberal” churches, the congregation is far more faithful and orthodox than the pastor.

I know of an Episcopal priest in the early 90s who was assigned to a parish for 6 months “minding the store” for a priest on sabbatical.

The congregation was stunned and grateful when it became clear that this substitute actually believed that Jesus is the Son of God who died in an entirely sufficient sacrifice for our sins and who imbues us with grace by the working of the Holy Spirit in many ways including the efficacious sacramental pledges.

In other words, they believed — though incoherently because they had been poorly taught and faithlessly shepherded — though their rector was going through the motions.

So I would almost hope that Gorsuch would be more devout and orthodox than his oh so trendy pastor.

But the warning signs are there and there is no reason not to be vigilant.

We can only hope that his RECORD as a judge is the REAL one he would display in the Supreme Court.

Log, eye .... you know the story.


Offline Emjay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,687
  • Gender: Female
  • Womp, womp
Re: Are you concerned that Neil Gorsuch belongs to a far-left church?
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2017, 06:27:11 pm »
SOURCE: AMERICAN THINKER

URL: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/02/are_you_concerned_that_neil_gorsuch_belongs_to_a_farleft_church.html

by Ed Straker



President Obama was criticized by Republicans for attending a church led by Jeremiah Wright, who repeatedly criticized the United States for being, in his own opinion, an evil terrorist nation.  People wondered, how could Obama sit through sermons like that, year after year?  Didn't that mean that at the very least, Obama didn't have any serious problems with what Wright was saying?

Well, we saw after eight years of Obama that that was probably true – that Obama saw America in a bad light.  That's why he kept trying to "fundamentally transform" it.

But what about Supreme Court nominee Neil Gorsuch?  He belongs to a far-left church that embraces marriage redefinition, gun control, and the theory of man-caused global warming.

That's not all.  Its website also calls for members to lobby their congressmen for more gun control. See here:

http://www.stjohnsboulder.org/

And more (See here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4196096/Trump-s-Supreme-Court-pick-belongs-liberal-church.html ):

As an Episcopalian, it's not as though Gorsuch didn't have other choices:

So what does this tell us about Gorsuch?  We don't really know. Perhaps he liked the church and simply disregarded its politics.  Though I would think a constitutionalist might find the repeated emphasis on "rights" of refugees and "rights" to marriage for members of the same sex to be ridiculous if not unpleasant to repeatedly listen to.

That's why I wonder if Gorsuch may be sympathetic to some of these causes.  That can have an impact when he is on the court and ruling on matters such as marriage or global warming regulations or increased vetting of people from Muslim countries.

I think, legitimately, if Reverend Wright's comments made you put a question mark by Obama, the politics of St. John's Episcopal Church might make you do the same with Neil Gorsuch.

Not a damn thing.  I was a member of an Episcopal Church in Irving that became more and more liberal over the many years I was a member.  It finally came down to me and one other woman who were conservative.  And she died.

There are many good conservatives in Episcopal Churches who have good reasons to stay as the loyal opposition.

I'm certainly not holding this against him and nobody should.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.