Bill Kristol Backs More Immigration Because White Working Class is ‘Lazy and Spoiled’

[Jazzhead]

Thanks, skeeter and abaraxas.

Linda Chavez agrees with Camarota that the country's welfare system is too large and too costly. But Chavez, a self-professed conservative who worked in President Reagan's administration, said it's irresponsible to say immigrants are taking advantage of the country's welfare system any more than native-born Americans.

Chavez said today's immigrants, like all other immigrant waves in the country's history, start off poorer and have lower levels of education, making it unfair to compare their welfare use to the long-established native-born population. She said immigrants have larger households, making it more likely that one person in that household will receive some kind of welfare benefit. And she said many benefits counted in the study are going to U.S.-born children of immigrants, skewing the findings even more.

"When you take all of those issues into account, (the report) is less worrisome," she said.

Chavez, president of the Becoming American Institute, a conservative group that advocates for higher levels of legal immigration to reduce illegal immigration, said politicians should be careful about using the data. Rather than focus on the fact that immigrants are initially more dependent on welfare than the U.S.-born, she said they should focus on studies that show what happens to the children of those immigrants.

"These kids who get subsidized school lunches today will go on to graduate high school ... will go on to college and move up to the middle class of America," Chavez said. "Every time we have a nativist backlash in our history, we forget that we see immigrants change very rapidly in the second generation." 

[skeeter]

Thanks, skeeter and abaraxas.

I read the article.

The fact is Invar's characterization is accurate.

@INVAR

[Sanguine]

You cannot have economic growth with an open borders welfare state.  You and your so-called vaunted economists are living in fantasyland if you actually believe we can.

QFT  Sounds simple, but it's apparently a very difficult concept for many.

[Sanguine]

Thanks, skeeter and abaraxas.

"... said it's irresponsible to say immigrants are taking advantage of the country's welfare system any more than native-born Americans."

IMMIGRANTS SHOULDN'T BE ON WELFARE!

[INVAR]

IMMIGRANTS SHOULDN'T BE ON WELFARE!

Anyone who supports "immigration" in the current environment and amidst the consequences already sown due to DECADES of open borders with COMMERCIALS being run in the third world for their unwanteds to come here and receive welfare and sustenance - is simply an advocate for national suicide on your dime.

End of sentence.

It's interesting where Jazz head's head is at in regards to matters most dire to the culture and the nation.

In short, I don't know where Pelosi ends and he begins.

[Jazzhead]

IMMIGRANTS SHOULDN'T BE ON WELFARE!

Why not?  Shouldn't anyone who pays taxes to support the welfare system be able to access it if they should someday need it?   

[Sanguine]

Why not?  Shouldn't anyone who pays taxes to support the welfare system be able to access it if they should someday need it?

If and when they become citizens.  Not while they're still immigrants. 

[Jazzhead]

It's interesting where Jazz head's head is at in regards to matters most dire to the culture and the nation.

I know where your head's at -

Importing third-world squatters who immediately go on welfare

I don't like to toss around the term loosely, because it's so often misused,  but it fits to a tee here - that's racist.

[Jazzhead]

If and whey they become citizens.  Not while they're still immigrants.

So they should pay the same taxes you do but not be able to receive the services those taxes pay for?

By the same logic, should immigrants be banned from public schools, even though they pay school taxes just as you do? 

[mountaineer]

Immigrants do jobs that Americans won't do.  And they show up on time and work hard.   

So they really don't need all the welfare benefits and entitlements we few remaining American taxpayers (white or otherwise)  are funding?

[Jazzhead]

So they really don't need all the welfare benefits and entitlements we few remaining American taxpayers (white or otherwise)  are funding?

Some "welfare" benefits target the working poor, such as food stamps or Section 8 housing.  If your position is to do away with such benefits for all, then fine.  But so long as these benefits are out there,  a tax-paying immigrant working hard at two crappy jobs to support his family should have the same access as a tax-paying citizen working hard at two crappy jobs to support his family.   

[dfwgator]

Some "welfare" benefits target the working poor, such as food stamps or Section 8 housing.  If your position is to do away with such benefits for all, then fine.  But so long as these benefits are out there,  a tax-paying immigrant working hard at two crappy jobs to support his family should have the same access as a tax-paying citizen working hard at two crappy jobs to support his family.

Get rid of the benefits for all and those Americans will suddenly be willing to do the jobs, that they aren't willing to do.

[Sanguine]

So they should pay the same taxes you do but not be able to receive the services those taxes pay for?

By the same logic, should immigrants be banned from public schools, even though they pay school taxes just as you do?

1. Yes
2. Apples and oranges.

[Jazzhead]

1. Yes

Well, in my opinion that's profoundly unfair.   At least let an immigrant pay less in taxes if he's not to be protected by the safety net his taxes are paying for.   

2. Apples and oranges.

Why?  Provide me with a principled distinction.   

[skeeter]

Well, in my opinion that's profoundly unfair.   At least let an immigrant pay less in taxes if he's not to be protected by the safety net his taxes are paying for.   
Why?  Provide me with a principled distinction.

What percentage of illegal immigrants pay payroll & property taxes? Sales tax doesn't count.

[Jazzhead]

What percentage of illegal immigrants pay payroll & property taxes? Sales tax doesn't count.

Neither Sanguine nor I are addressing illegals.   She says that immigrants shouldn't be permitted to receive welfare unless and until they become citizens.  I'm saying that's unfair because they pay the same taxes as you and I do to support the welfare system. 

[skeeter]

Neither Sanguine nor I are addressing illegals.   She says that immigrants shouldn't be permitted to receive welfare unless and until they become citizens.  I'm saying that's unfair because they pay the same taxes as you and I do to support the welfare system.

I see.

The time to screen out immigrants from welfare benefits is when they apply for entry. Show a skill or resources enough to guarantee you won't be a burden to society.

[Sanguine]

Well, in my opinion that's profoundly unfair.   At least let an immigrant pay less in taxes if he's not to be protected by the safety net his taxes are paying for.   
Why?  Provide me with a principled distinction.

Nope - it doesn't matter what I say, you just treat it as something to be argued over.  Not interested.

[Jazzhead]

Nope - it doesn't matter what I say, you just treat it as something to be argued over.

Sorry, I thought that was the point of a political discussion board.   

[Sanguine]

Sorry, I thought that was the point of a political discussion board.

Ah, ha!  I think we have discovered part of the problem!

[Jazzhead]

I see.

The time to screen out immigrants from welfare benefits is when they apply for entry. Show a skill or resources enough to guarantee you won't be a burden to society.

Well, folks lose their jobs,  or take jobs that pay squat.  If a tax-paying citizen can avail himself of welfare when times are tough, then it seems to me that so can a tax-paying immigrant. 

[Jazzhead]

Ah, ha!  I think we have discovered part of the problem!

I guess.  But I admit that I enjoy a good argument among smart people.  That's why I like participating here.   

[skeeter]

Well, folks lose their jobs,  or take jobs that pay squat.  If a tax-paying citizen can avail himself of welfare when times are tough, then it seems to me that so can a tax-paying immigrant.

A citizen who happens to be foreign born, sure.

But there is no moral imperative to avail a legal non-citizen all of the benefits US citizens have. If they don't like it they can choose not to come here.

I don't want immigrants seeking visas because its a great way to tap into taxpayer largess. Thats not how we attract the best and brightest.

[JustPassinThru]

It's no longer Dem-versus-Republican anymore, so much as it is Elite Government Class versus Traditional Americans.

Oh, there's some Party-Allegiance friction; and the Dems do march in lockstep.  But the reality is, the Elites want what the Elites want; and what they're fighting over is which claque gets to spend the money.

We're fighting for our COUNTRY here, and fat slobs like this poseur Kristol don't make it easy.

There's less difference, D versus R, than there is, sham-conservative Elites versus true conservatives.

FWIW, I stopped paying attention to Kristol's Never-Trump bleats when I saw the sort of ciphers he proposed to offer as alternatives.  He may not have been a Pillory operative, but couldn't have been more clumsily obvious if he had been, and openly.

[INVAR]

Why not?  Shouldn't anyone who pays taxes to support the welfare system be able to access it if they should someday need it?

No.  Absolutely not.    Benefits from taxpayers should only be available to bona-fide citizens.  The rest can go to private charities if in need.  There are plenty of them.

I don't like to toss around the term loosely, because it's so often misused,  but it fits to a tee here - that's racist.

You are most certainly welcome to join your Liberal/Leftist/LaRaza compatriots to belt out that repeating chorus of cacophony to your heart's content.

See if I care.  I wear such charges as badges of honor coming from people like you.

By the same logic, should immigrants be banned from public schools, even though they pay school taxes just as you do?

GOOD IDEA!  I LIIIKE IT!  If the schools actually taught American culture and focused on getting immigrants to assimilate along with doing the 3 R's like they used to, I could see the value of having immigrants attend public school.

But since they are Socialist/Marxist indoctrination camps, all they do is reinforce the Socialist/Marxist garbage immigrants already identify with given where they came from.  In fact if memory serves, a whole slew of public schools do not even teach English to migrants anymore.  Instead they do screwel in Spanish.  So I like your idea of banning immigrants from public schools.  Makes great sense.

a tax-paying immigrant working hard at two crappy jobs to support his family should have the same access as a tax-paying citizen working hard at two crappy jobs to support his family.

If YOU want to provide benefits to illegals - DO SO ON YOUR OWN DIME own your own effort.  Stop telling the rest of us what we ought to provide for non-citizens on our dime.

I'm saying that's unfair because they pay the same taxes as you and I do to support the welfare system.

We don't care that you think it is unfair.  You cannot go to any of the nations we are importing migrants from by the hundreds of thousands and millions and get ANY KIND of benefits or rights from their governments.   You can go be a bleeding heart Leftie to your heart's content on your own dime.