Author Topic: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?  (Read 1811 times)

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Offline corbe

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Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« on: January 29, 2017, 08:00:11 pm »
Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?

By David Thornton  |  January 29, 2017, 02:23pm  |  @captainkudzu


One of the big criticisms of Donald Trump from the right during the campaign is that he wasn’t a conservative. Trump embraced many policies, such as his proposal for a new childcare entitlement and his promise to outspend Hillary on an infrastructure stimulus, that made him seem somewhat liberal to many of us. After a week in office, it’s still hard to tell whether Trump is a conservative, a liberal or something in between. Now, however, there is a new question: Does it matter?

Donald Trump was definitely not the most conservative candidate in the Republican Primary. With the exception of John Kasich, it’s hard to identify any of the candidates that I would have considered less conservative than Mr. Trump. This may have actually helped him win.

Many of us have argued for years that the Republican Party needed to appeal to moderate and independent voters to win. As evidence of this, consider the fact that John Kasich, considered by many to be a “RINO,” polled better in head-to-head matchups with Hillary Clinton than any other candidate. Kasich could not bring together the GOP base to win the primary, however. Trump, for all his faults, managed to eke out a primary victory and then win 88 percent of Republicans and 46 percent of independents in the general election according to CNN exit polling.

Could any other candidate who could have won the Republican nomination succeeded in winning Ohio and Florida, not to mention Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin? There is no way to know for sure. What is certain is that Trump, with his moderate to liberal background on many issues, did do exactly that.

Trump’s performance in the first week of his presidency is undoubtedly preferable to Hillary Clinton. In spite of some missteps, President Trump seems genuinely interested in paying back the people who put him in office. Can anyone seriously argue that President Clinton would have restored the Mexico City Policy or the Keystone and Dakota pipelines? Would Hillary have instructed HHS not to enforce the Obamacare mandate? Certainly not.

The flip side is that President Clinton may not have withdrawn from the Trans-Pacific Partnership, even though she professed opposition to the trade deal. President Clinton definitely would not have adopted policy and made comments that would place the United States on the verge of a trade war with its second largest trading partner.

The rub is that Donald Trump’s protectionist position on trade cannot be blamed solely on lack of conservatism.  Numerous polls show that about half of Republican voters believe that free trade deals have hurt their communities. Over the past ten years, party views on free trade have flipped to the point where more Democrats are now in favor of free trade than Republicans.

Much of the Republican angst over trade can be traced to the stagnation of the Obama era, the loss of jobs to automation and a lack of spirited defense of trade by Republican and conservative leaders. In contrast to the 1970s when economist Milton Friedman was able to describe the benefits of free trade and economic freedom of choice to the common man in a witty and entertaining way, there seem to be no voices today answering the charge that “America never wins anymore.”

Likewise, Trump’s unconservative promise to spend billions on an infrastructure stimulus draws support from Republicans as well as Democrats and independents. A Public Policy Poll from September found that 72 percent of Americans favored more federal spending on roads and bridges. The traditional conservative view is that such projects should be the responsibility of state and local governments.

The problem on many issues isn’t so much that Donald Trump isn’t conservative, it’s that many Republican voters aren’t conservative on many issues. It is difficult to fault President Trump for being insufficiently conservative when he ran on a moderate platform and was elected by voters who knew exactly what he stood for.

Regardless of Trump’s personal beliefs on policy and issues like abortion, he seems willing to work toward the beliefs of the people who put him in office. Does it really matter what Trump believes about abortion if he is willing to pass pro-life legislation and roll back the Obama Administration’s pro-abortion policies?

At this point, with the Trump Administration established in the White House, it matters less whether he is a true believer in conservative principles than if he is willing to use his position to advance conservative ideas. Where liberals often seem to feel that motives are more important than results, I would be happy to have a president who enacts good, practical, conservative ideas even if it goes against some of his own beliefs.

A positive thing about Donald Trump is that he is a dealmaker, not an ideologue. He realizes that deals require give and take. In that sense, it is even possible that more conservative reforms can be enacted under President Trump than under a conservative version of President Obama, an ideologue who refused to compromise to get things accomplished for the good of the country. With a slim majority in the Senate, cloture votes will require deal-making with Senate Democrats to pass almost any legislation and break the partisan stalemate.


<..snip..>

http://theresurgent.com/is-donald-trump-conservative-does-it-matter-if-he-isnt/

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Offline EasyAce

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2017, 08:54:27 pm »
From the essay:

Quote
With respect to the issues where Donald Trump does not take the conservative position, such as free trade and
the Keynesian belief in stimulus spending, it will be up to Republican leaders and conservative thinkers to convince
both the president and the members of the party’s base to take the conservative tack. The right shouldn’t just oppose
centralized government planning and micromanagement when it is done by Democratic administrations, it should
oppose the expansion of government under Trump as well.

Add to that that the right shouldn't just oppose executive overreach when done by Democratic administrations, it
should oppose executive overreach by Donaldus Minimus and Republican administrations as well. (You'd have
thought the right would have learned that lesson from the era of George W. Bush, the era which opened the
door for His Excellency Obama, but then there's a fair argument to make that the right doesn't learn until someone
hits it in the head with a 2x4. This time, the 2x4 is Donaldus Minimus, blissfully unaware of the Constitution's
delineation of legislative supremacy and disinclination to make Congress into a president's rubber stamp, and
the head is a legislative branch that surrendered its legislative supremacy [and cojones] long before he entered
the picture.)


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2017, 10:22:42 pm »
Quote
Is Donald Trump Conservative?

Is the Kennedy Compound dry?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2017, 10:25:15 pm »
Quote
The problem on many issues isn’t so much that Donald Trump isn’t conservative, it’s that many Republican voters aren’t conservative on many issues.

Correctamundo!
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline corbe

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2017, 10:34:20 pm »

Quote
The problem on many issues isn’t so much that Donald Trump isn’t conservative, it’s that many Republican voters aren’t conservative on many issues.

Correctamundo!

   And therefore keep electing RINO's to Washington to continue this madness, there isn't a dime's bit of difference between the most of them.
   I'm not ready to declare the Conservative movement in America dead but the fat lady's been warming up behind the curtain for quite a while.

  Repealing the 17th would be a GREAT Start as I'm sure you'll agree.

@Hoodat
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2017, 11:19:55 pm »
On November 8, 2017 there was a magnitude 10 political earthquake in the United States--and nothing is as it was before.

Conservatives would do well to hold a "Council of Trent" and figure out where the "conservative" brand now fits.  That it should be the superior and ruling political philosophy is not enough of a strategy to breath life into the struggling "conservative" agenda.




« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 11:21:10 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2017, 11:35:43 pm »
Repealing the 17th would be a GREAT Start as I'm sure you'll agree.

Sign me up.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2017, 11:42:21 pm »
It matters to the extent that some of his supporters have felt the need to tear down actual conservatives in an effort to make the Orange Baboon king look better.

So far I've been informed that Calvin Coolidge was a klansman, Reagan hated veterans, and Thomas Jefferson wanted to use the law to silence the press. That crap sounds like the sort of thing a soviet schoolkid would be taught.

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2017, 12:38:57 am »
So far I've been informed that Calvin Coolidge was a klansman . . .
Allegedly, at least two presidents were Klan members at one time: Warren G. Harding and Harry S. Truman:

* Harding actually never was a Klansman, but there's evidence that people tied to the Klan spread speculation that he
was a member because he spoke frequently against the Klan.

* Similar speculation may have gone forth about Coolidge, especially considering the Klan was a hot issue in the 1924
presidential campaigns, after his Democratic opponent, John W. Davis (a segregationist), asked Coolidge to speak at
some event at a time when Coolidge's son was dying, which of course devastated the president. Not long after he
buried his son, Coolidge gave a speech before a Catholic Holy Name Society parade in which he pled for
racial and religious tolerance---at a time when he rejected an invitation from the Klan to appear at a parade of their
own.

* Truman did pay a Klan membership fee in 1924, when he was running for a judgeship, but he did it for political
expediency; the Klan was powerful in his home state and two opponents had Klan support. Truman went far enough
to be inducted, but never took any known active role in the organisation or among the membership and, in fact,
demanded the return of his membership fee after a Klan demand that he agree not to hire Jews or Catholics if
he was re-elected. (The demand hit Truman where he lived personally: he'd commanded a World War I squad most of
whom were Catholic men.)

. . . Reagan hated veterans . . .
He hated veterans so much that he signed the legislation changing the original Veterans Administration into the
Cabinet-level Department of Veterans Affairs before he left office, though it took effect after the inauguration of
George H.W. Bush.

. . . and Thomas Jefferson wanted to use the law to silence the press.
Jefferson became disenchanted with the press during his presidency---he was buffeted by a number of newspapers
over such matters as Thomas Paine's return to America after the French Revolution imploded, the Sally Hemings affair
(hammered at particularly by a disgruntled former ally who'd been a) the last newspaper editor released when the original
Sedition Act expired and Jefferson pardoned those convicted under it, and b) spurned for a job in the Jefferson Administration,
though it seems from most readings that that wasn't half as hammered away at as the Paine return), among other matters---
but there's little to no indication that Jefferson, however disillusioned, sought to use the law to silence the press. Indeed,
for all the battering he sometimes took in the press, he could still write:

Quote
I deplore . . . the putrid state into which the newspapers have passed, and the
malignity, the vulgarity and mendacious spirit of those who write them . . . These ordures
are rapidly depraving the public taste. It is however an evil for which there is no remedy;
our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being
lost.

p.s. Something both sides seem at times to forget:

Sorry, Journalists: Trump Isn’t The First President To Threaten The Press

« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 12:39:35 am by EasyAce »


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline goatprairie

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2017, 01:08:46 am »
If after four or eight years of Trump the American electorate believes Big Government led by a would-be, populist strongman is the way to solve our problems, then you can kiss the future of the country goodbye.

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2017, 01:22:11 am »
If after four or eight years of Trump the American electorate believes Big Government led by a would-be, populist strongman is the way to solve our problems, then you can kiss the future of the country goodbye.

It matters because so many so called conservatives are using trump as an excuse to abandon conservatism and replacing it with much easier ends justify the means progressivism.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2017, 02:07:57 am »
Conservatives would do well to hold a "Council of Trent" and figure out where the "conservative" brand now fits.


Conservatism isn't  a brand.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2017, 04:23:37 am »


  Repealing the 17th would be a GREAT Start as I'm sure you'll agree.

@Hoodat
Yes!
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2017, 04:27:03 am »
It matters because so many so called conservatives are using trump as an excuse to abandon conservatism and replacing it with much easier ends justify the means progressivism.
Conservatism is a set of principles. It matters, especially in that one who possesses those principles and holds them sacrosanct will make the right decision, not by accident, but for the right reasons as well.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline INVAR

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2017, 04:39:20 am »
Conservatism is a set of principles. It matters, especially in that one who possesses those principles and holds them sacrosanct will make the right decision, not by accident, but for the right reasons as well.

They don't care about principles.  They want tangible results no matter the means to achieve them.

That is why the allegories to political earthquakes and 'branding' dominate their lexicon.

They can care less about principles - except those that give them power to enact playback and whatever other empowerments they think are needed.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2017, 05:03:00 am »
They don't care about principles.  They want tangible results no matter the means to achieve them.

That is why the allegories to political earthquakes and 'branding' dominate their lexicon.

They can care less about principles - except those that give them power to enact playback and whatever other empowerments they think are needed.
Conservatism isn't about "payback", it's about setting things right. I believe the distinction is lost along the line somewhere.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline EC

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2017, 05:14:01 am »
Does it matter if he isn't?

It depends HOW he isn't. Is he an ideologue or not? An ideologue will pursue an agenda. A person who doesn't care much one way or the other won't.

It's like a sociopath. (I said LIKE, not that he is, before some moron jumps on it). A sociopath has no real reason not to kill you, literally or metaphorically. They also have no real reason to kill you. Chances are, they aren't going to kill you, especially if you treat them decently in their view.

Trump is not a conservative. He's also no progressive. He's Trump. No fixed political core. So, there's nothing to stop him going full on left. There is also nothing to stop him acting conservatively.

If he acts conservatively, that is good enough for me. So far, he mostly is.
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Offline montanajoe

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2017, 05:37:32 am »
Doesn't matter if you are a political conservative. Matters a hell of a lot if you live your life as a Conservative and that is what you are to the core of your being.


Offline Hondo69

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Re: Is Donald Trump Conservative? Does It Matter If He Isn’t?
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2017, 08:47:39 am »
Quote
Likewise, Trump’s unconservative promise to spend billions on an infrastructure stimulus draws support from Republicans as well as Democrats and independents. A Public Policy Poll from September found that 72 percent of Americans favored more federal spending on roads and bridges. The traditional conservative view is that such projects should be the responsibility of state and local governments.

Since this portion of the article is a little more straightforward than the rest I'll toss in my two cents here.  For one, I disagree with the assumption.  In my opinion having a stable and reliable infrastructure is vital to conservative principles.

[1] Without a reliable infrastructure our capitalistic and free enterprise system would grind to a halt.  Our roads and bridge literally provide the structure on which our entire economic engine resides.  And just for fun try Hondo Theorem #114 on for size: Russia lost the cold war because they had an inferior system of roads and highways.

[2] It is untrue that the traditional conservative view is that such projects should be soley the responsibility of State and local governments.  In 1956 Dwight D. Eisenhower instituted a national highway system (interstates) that has become an integral part of the American way of life.  This Republican president embarked on a project to work in conjunction with State governments to connect the nation via highways.

[3] Liberal politicians use federal highway funding dollars as part of their carrot and stick approach toward whipping those ungrateful little States into toeing the line.  For examples, see seat belts, ethanol, and a hundred other nasty examples of federal overreach.

[4] Congress gave Obama and his band of thieves nearly a trillion dollars to stimulate the economy.  They promised to spend the money wisely on shovel ready jobs such as bridges, roads and schools.  Instead, they made it rain for the unions and other groups they rely upon for campaign dollars.  Most Americans view this wasted money as long gone never to return.  If it were up to me, I'd demand Democrats repay that trillion dollars now.  We want our money back.  And before Democrats are allowed to so much as twitch a muscle regarding any ongoing issues going forward, cough up the cash.  I'm 100% serious about this and would advise Trump to adopt another motto, "We going to rebuild our roads and make Democrats pay for it".

It is entirely within Conservative principles to have the federal government assist the States to maintain roads and bridges.  But they must provide tax dollars with no strings attached.  It is in our national interest.  Just as it is in our national interest to provide certain tax dollars for schools of all types - no strings attached.

We can return power to the States where it belongs by cutting the size of federal government (for one thing).  Instead of the 634 government agencies we have now let's lop off a few digits - I'll give you 6.  This remaining 6 may operate on functions only the national government can do effectively such as the military.  At the same time they may also apportion money to the States for roads and schools no strings attached.  Our new 7% consumption tax that replaces the income tax will provide plenty of tax dollars for just such State apportions.

It is possible to have a less intrusive federal government.  Yet our society has become accustomed to being the boiling frog and most assume an autocratic, oppressive and heavy handed government is just a way of life.  I prefer liberty as do most Conservatives I know.