The Entire Senior Management Team At The State Department Just Resigned; Tillerson wanted a clean slate, he just got it.

[HonestJohn]

Of course the Islamic terrorists had something to do with it, but who has it been who has been determining how we should deal with those Islamic terrorists?  The "Blame America First" crowd has been running the State Department for far too long, and were particular emboldened/strengthened by having one of their own in the White House these last 8 years.

The State Department determines US military policy against terrorists?

Really?

[HonestJohn]

Was it not Foggy Bottom that ran interference and hamstrung the military? Was it not Foggy Bottom that took part in forwarding Obama's open season shooting gallery that WAS the state of our military...with that military being the targets?

Ger, I get that you hate Trump. He's not my favorite person either. But don't let that obscure the reality here. The SD are POS and have been for DECADES going back to when Magnus was president. Even HE had to fight their cabal of leftist globalism.

Wow, you claim the State Department runs the US military.

And what does the DoD do, then?  Basket weaving?

[HonestJohn]

Here is a partial list of all the successes of the stripped pants crowd:

Helped Mao defeat General Chang in China

Helped China in North Korea leading to stalemate there

Undercut the government of SVN at a critical time allowing NVN to take over the place

Undercut the Contras in Nicaragua causing their defeat

Failed to do anything at all in support of the Green movement in Iran allowing the Mullahs there to remain in power.

Edit to add: Strongly aided the simple Agrarian Castro in coming to power in Cuba! Can't forget that little adventure!


What need do we have of that sort of institutional memory?

Helped Mao defeat General Chang in China

No.  Mao received all the Soviet armaments that they had moved into the Soviet Far East for their planned invasion of Japan.  Truman didn't give enough of a rat's patootie to order our DoD to send their leftover arms to the ROC. 

What does the State Department have to do with that?  They 'talked' all they could about how it should stop.

Helped China in North Korea leading to stalemate there

Are you saying they gave China arms?  What?

Undercut the government of SVN at a critical time allowing NVN to take over the place

Cutting US military arms to the SVN came from the President to the DOD, not the State Department.

Undercut the Contras in Nicaragua causing their defeat

The last I knew, the CIA were the ones who ran arms to the Contras.

Failed to do anything at all in support of the Green movement in Iran allowing the Mullahs there to remain in power.

They talked about how great the Green movement was.  Considering there is no US embassy in Iran, exactly what did you expect?

---

It really sounds like you've got no clue as to what the State Department does.

They talk.  That's their whole basis for existence.  To talk with foreign nations.

Anything else usually means another executive branch department.  Especially if it involves force or the transfer of goods.

[Bigun]

Helped Mao defeat General Chang in China

No.  Mao received all the Soviet armaments that they had moved into the Soviet Far East for their planned invasion of Japan.  Truman didn't give enough of a rat's patootie to order our DoD to send their leftover arms to the ROC. 

What does the State Department have to do with that?  They 'talked' all they could about how it should stop.

Helped China in North Korea leading to stalemate there

Are you saying they gave China arms?  What?

Undercut the government of SVN at a critical time allowing NVN to take over the place

Cutting US military arms to the SVN came from the President to the DOD, not the State Department.

Undercut the Contras in Nicaragua causing their defeat

The last I knew, the CIA were the ones who ran arms to the Contras.

Failed to do anything at all in support of the Green movement in Iran allowing the Mullahs there to remain in power.

They talked about how great the Green movement was.  Considering there is no US embassy in Iran, exactly what did you expect?

---

It really sounds like you've got no clue as to what the State Department does.

They talk.  That's their whole basis for existence.  To talk with foreign nations.

Anything else usually means another executive branch department.  Especially if it involves force or the transfer of goods.

Sorry! No time left for history lessons today! 

[Norm Lenhart]

Wow, you claim the State Department runs the US military.

And what does the DoD do, then?  Basket weaving?

Are YOU saying that the State Dept, which advises the president of foreign policy, has on effect on the actions taken by the president when directing the actions of the military in dealing with wars on foreign soil in concert with other foreign nations? Really?

The DOD has ALWAYS been a back bencher in the Obama admin. State has ruled the roost as we saw in Bhenghazi, with Yemen/piracy, with State's direct UN interaction and everything else. ALL of which is then used to determine what the military is ALLOWED to do.

[HonestJohn]

Are YOU saying that the State Dept, which advises the president of foreign policy, has on effect on the actions taken by the president when directing the actions of the military in dealing with wars on foreign soil in concert with other foreign nations? Really?

The DOD has ALWAYS been a back bencher in the Obama admin. State has ruled the roost as we saw in Bhenghazi, with Yemen/piracy, with State's direct UN interaction and everything else. ALL of which is then used to determine what the military is ALLOWED to do.

The State Department is *NOT* the only agency that advises the President on foreign policy.  However, they help carry out it out.

The National Security Council is the one that advises the President on that (and the State Department has only one seat on it).

And their mission is to talk to foreign governments... aka: diplomacy.

That's it.

They can make requests from the US military, most noteable being US military personnel as guards for embassies (and for ambassadors).  But it's up to the DoD to approve them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Security_Council

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The State Department determines US military policy against terrorists?

Really?

You left out the context of the quote to which I was responding, which was this:

I thought maybe Islamic terrorists had something to do with it, but apparently it's all Bush's, Obama's, Hillary's and now Foggy Bottom's fault.

So I wasn't claiming that everything was the fault of just the State Department - it was political leadership more generally.

[mystery-ak]

According to Hannity on his radio show this is fake news.....Trump fired all the political appointees.

[Bigun]

The State Department is *NOT* the only agency that advises the President on foreign policy.  However, they help carry out it out.

Yep! And they have been given FAR too much latitude for FAR too long in that mission!  LONG past time to trim their wings WAY back!

[Bigun]

According to Hannity on his radio show this is fake news.....Trump fired all the political appointees.

Doesn't make a damned bit of difference to me so long as they are gone from any positions of influence!

[HonestJohn]

You left out the context of the quote to which I was responding, which was this:

So I wasn't claiming that everything was the fault of just the State Department - it was political leadership more generally.

What I'm pointing out is that you're attributing it to the State Department, when it's far more accurate to say that the White House has been far less willing to use military force against terrorists (for the last eight years).

The State Department can't direct the use of US military forces.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The State Department is *NOT* the only agency that advises the President on foreign policy.  However, they help carry out it out.

The National Security Council is the one that advises the President on that (and the State Department has only one seat on it).

And their mission is to talk to foreign governments... aka: diplomacy.

That's it.

They can make requests from the US military, most noteable being US military personnel as guards for embassies (and for ambassadors).  But it's up to the DoD to approve them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_National_Security_Council

Careerists also can strategically leak information if an Administration takes actions they don't support.  Or they can disseminate messages locally, or to other governments, that are inconsistent with the policy preferences of the President.  Both of which have happened.  Here's a nice example:

After President Bush was elected to a second term in November 2004, Secretary of State Colin Powell called a town meeting of his employees. “We live in a democracy,” he said. “As Americans, we have to respect the results of elections.” Bush had received the most votes of any president in U.S. history. Everyone in this building was constitutionally obligated to serve him, he said.

As I recounted in my 2008 book, Shadow Warriors, one of Powell’s subordinates returned to her office suite, shut the door, and held a mini town meeting of her own. After indignantly recounting Powell’s remarks to her assembled staff, she commented: “Well, Senator Kerry receive the second highest number of votes of any presidential candidate in history. If just one state had gone differently, Sen. Kerry would be President Kerry today.”

The employees of her regional bureau owed no allegiance to the president of the United States, especially not to policies they knew were wrong, she told them. If it was legal, and it would slow down the Bush juggernaut, they should do it.


Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/29/state-department-nominee-must-tame-the-bureaucratic-beast/#ixzz4WuMOL4ev

Here's State undermining Bush's Mexico City policy:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/us-senate-staffer-reveals-state-department-undermining-bush-on-abortion

Here's a representative of State during Bush's tenure slamming "conservatives and Christians" to Labor and Palestinians in Israel

http://townhall.com/columnists/joelmowbray/2003/05/21/state_department_undermining_president_bush

Here's another guy letting his opinions slip to Al Jazeera:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/22/fernandez.statement/

I'm sure there are a great many professional career employees at State who faithfully and diligently execute the foreign policy vision of the elected President.  I'm also sure there are many whose personal views lead them to try to implement their foreign policy vision regardless of who is President.

That's all stuff I found in 15 minutes of googling.  The truth of what we don't see, and what guys like Bolton have railed about for years, is likely a lot more of the same, or worse.

[HonestJohn]

Careerists also can strategically leak information if an Administration takes actions they don't support.  Or they can disseminate messages locally, or to other governments, that are inconsistent with the policy preferences of the President.  Both of which have happened.

Yes... but that really doesn't seem to address the point I made.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Yes... but that really doesn't seem to address the point I made.

Fair enough given that your post didn't address the point I'd made.  I did not say, anywhere, that State controlled the military, or was primarily responsible for the growth of ISIS.  But they are part of the foreign policy apparatus, and therefore certainly do play a role in our relations with governments and groups in the region, as well as the image we present overseas, all of which can affect how we are perceived by our enemies, our allies, and those in the middle.

[Bigun]

Fair enough given that your post didn't address the point I'd made.  I did not say, anywhere, that State controlled the military, or was primarily responsible for the growth of ISIS.  But they are part of the foreign policy apparatus, and therefore certainly do play a role in our relations with governments and groups in the region, as well as the image we present overseas.

The entire role of the State Department is to carry out U.S. foreign policy!  The problem is that they have been taking it upon themselves to MAKE our foreign policy (edit to add) for far too long!

[Norm Lenhart]

The entire role of the State Department is to carry out U.S. foreign policy!  The problem is that they have been taking it upon themselves to MAKE our foreign policy!

Yup. Thats the only truth in this that matters. Because it IS the only truth.

[INVAR]

That Obama, Kerry and Clinton have lit the fuse on the world, it is necessary to get the hidden sticks of dynamite out of the trusses and footings.

[don-o]

I have to give the man his due. He has made some very good moves thus far. I hope that keeps up.

Easing back in here after hiatus...I allow myself to muse about where  we would be had the election had gone the other way. All I pinned on Trump was to stop Hillary. The howls of agony from the poo flinging simians, of all varieties, is a bonus.

Reminds me of Ali's rope-a-dope.

[EC]

Easing back in here after hiatus...I allow myself to muse about where  we would be had the election had gone the other way. All I pinned on Trump was to stop Hillary. The howls of agony from the poo flinging simians, of all varieties, is a bonus.

Reminds me of Ali's rope-a-dope.

Welcome back, my friend. Missed your wisdom and humor.

[don-o]

Here is a partial list of all the successes of the stripped pants crowd:

Helped Mao defeat General Chang in China

Helped China in North Korea leading to stalemate there

Undercut the government of SVN at a critical time allowing NVN to take over the place

Undercut the Contras in Nicaragua causing their defeat

Failed to do anything at all in support of the Green movement in Iran allowing the Mullahs there to remain in power.

Edit to add: Strongly aided the simple Agrarian Castro in coming to power in Cuba! Can't forget that little adventure!


What need do we have of that sort of institutional memory?

Well done.

And there's that whole Arab Spring thingie.

[Frank Cannon]

Well, in W's defense, he didn't really have a lot of free time to pursue the project after 9/11....

He had plenty of time to do it. It took Donny less than a week. Bush was always big on playing the "were all friends working for the same team" BS. The Left eviscerated him for his weakness and he still hasn't recovered 8 years after his term ended.

[don-o]

According to Hannity on his radio show this is fake news.....Trump fired all the political appointees.

That's even better.

[Puss-N-Boots]

The swamp is draining itself.

[Norm Lenhart]

The swamp is draining itself.

The side benefit is that every one that leaves, regardless of how they leave, diminishes the power of the Dems in congress/overall. And the media. Their little elves arent there to monkeywrench the works or feed inside info.

[Sanguine]

Easing back in here after hiatus...I allow myself to muse about where  we would be had the election had gone the other way. All I pinned on Trump was to stop Hillary. The howls of agony from the poo flinging simians, of all varieties, is a bonus.

Reminds me of Ali's rope-a-dope.

@don-o! Good to see you.