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Author Topic: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!  (Read 4947 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2017, 05:44:31 pm »
Quote from: TomSea on January 25, 2017, 05:00:55 pm
In a sense, the place is a disaster area at this time,

Like Hurricane Katrina, the Feds went in.
Bush was crucified in the media for not sending in the National Guard to help--BUT the request for assistance must originate with the Governor of the State for them to even come in and assist. Normally, that happens, but in the case of Louisiana after Katrina it took over a week for the Governor (D) to do so. Then the media blamed Bush.

Chicago is suffering the long term effects of disarming the populace and stripping people of the ability to defend themselves.
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How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2017, 05:48:42 pm »
Quote from: TomSea on January 25, 2017, 05:11:44 pm
Oklahoma City got bombed; maybe some said just let the state or city officials handle it, it's fine with me if the Feds go into some areas. That innocent people, 4 year olds seem to get killed with flying stray bullets may indicate a bit more of a problem than usual. Yes, that happens in most big cities from time to time.
The building bombed in Oklahoma City was a Federal building. Even if it wasn't the use of a destructive device in violation of Federal Law invokes the mission tasking of the BATFE, to investigate the use of something considered a 'destructive device' in Federal Law. The FBI gets involved because victims of the assault are Federal Officers and Employees.
Federal jurisdiction is pretty clear in that instance, although that did not preclude investigation by local and State authorities as well.
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How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online kevindavis007

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2017, 05:50:50 pm »
Quote from: Smokin Joe on January 25, 2017, 05:41:07 pm
We are asking the Federal Government to clean up the international border with Mexico, not to clean up the border between Texas and New Mexico.

If Federal Laws are not being broken, If interstate criminal activity is not involved, if Federal property (military bases, National parks/monuments, federal buildings, for instance) is not involved, the jurisdiction falls to the State and Local Governments.


I guess you don't like the concept of Federalism...
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Offline TomSea

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2017, 05:59:49 pm »
Quote from: Smokin Joe on January 25, 2017, 05:48:42 pm
The building bombed in Oklahoma City was a Federal building. Even if it wasn't the use of a destructive device in violation of Federal Law invokes the mission tasking of the BATFE, to investigate the use of something considered a 'destructive device' in Federal Law. The FBI gets involved because victims of the assault are Federal Officers and Employees.
Federal jurisdiction is pretty clear in that instance, although that did not preclude investigation by local and State authorities as well.

Are Citizens of Chicago, citizens of the US? Touche; there are probably many connections that can be had.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2017, 06:00:38 pm »
You've got headstart money in Chicago, Federal funds to schools, federal funds to transit I'd think, you will have the Federal Government everywhere.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2017, 06:03:27 pm »
Quote from: Smokin Joe on January 25, 2017, 05:44:31 pm
Bush was crucified in the media for not sending in the National Guard to help--BUT the request for assistance must originate with the Governor of the State for them to even come in and assist. Normally, that happens, but in the case of Louisiana after Katrina it took over a week for the Governor (D) to do so. Then the media blamed Bush.

Chicago is suffering the long term effects of disarming the populace and stripping people of the ability to defend themselves.

Chicago may be suffering from that; but it's a lot bigger than making a gun control issue about it, most shootings are between gangs; they probably have illegally purchased firearms to begin with and drugs are a part which once again, make it part of a national issue.

Since sending the feds in can be as innocuous as the way Bush 41 sent in lawyers to investigate a possible civil rights violation in Florida when a black man was killed by police, I think both sides of the argument are not sure exactly what sending the feds in means.

It could be as simple as amplifying FBI efforts, they are surely, already there.

I'm sure police departments often receive federal funding too.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2017, 06:10:05 pm »
Quote from: kevindavis on January 25, 2017, 05:50:50 pm

I guess you don't like the concept of Federalism...
I'm not sure what you mean. The federal government is not tasked with issuing speeding tickets, either. As it should be. Local matters, local laws, local police, State laws, state police. It is a legitimate function of the federal Government to pursue interstate criminal acts, matters relating to federal laws and federal property.

Chicago is not Federal property. The problems Chicago has, although exacerbated by Federal money, are violations of state and local laws. It isn't Federal Law that makes it illegal for me to carry a concealed weapon in Chicago, it is local law,  even though I can go around Illinois and have reciprocity with my CCW permit. In areas where people can legally defend themselves, there is a lot less murder.

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How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline beandog

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2017, 06:11:03 pm »
I'm not sure how I feel about this.  If they want to keep killing each other why should I care.  Chicago continues to elect Rats to run the show so they must want more of this.

I do know one thing.  We should not in any way, shape or form send them more money,
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Offline INVAR

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #33 on: January 25, 2017, 06:11:14 pm »
Stop the war on cops - put BLM in it's place (since they advocate violence, riots, mayhem and killings), encourage the police and their duty and watch the problem become less widespread.

But the Grievance and Race Pimping Industry will not allow that to happen.
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Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline TomSea

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2017, 06:13:37 pm »
So, the Federal Government is likely going to threaten Sanctuary Cities with witholding Federal Funds, so now, we only have people trying to find a loophole as to why now it is okay for the Feds to do this.  Well, that's federal money, lots of Federal Money goes to Chicago, over a billion? Also, Civil Rights may well be violated and whether I like it or not, the Federal Government can step in when Civil Rights are violated.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2017, 06:14:31 pm »
Quote from: INVAR on January 25, 2017, 06:11:14 pm
Stop the war on cops - put BLM in it's place (since they advocate violence, riots, mayhem and killings), encourage the police and their duty and watch the problem become less widespread.

But the Grievance and Race Pimping Industry will not allow that to happen.

Exactly, this is what Officers of the CPD have said. BLM etc. has made cops less active in law enforcement.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2017, 06:22:33 pm »
Seems like some people think this is like the National Guard, a police action moving into Chicago, setting up check points, etc.

We don't really know what this means, it could easily mean the Federal Government looking at the situation and saying, if you don't fix this, you won't get federal funds.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2017, 06:27:02 pm »
Quote from: TomSea on January 25, 2017, 06:00:38 pm
You've got headstart money in Chicago, Federal funds to schools, federal funds to transit I'd think, you will have the Federal Government everywhere.
Federal highways crisscross the United States, but that doesn't mean the FBI is out writing speeding tickets, either. Nor should it be.
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How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline TomSea

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2017, 06:31:40 pm »
Quote from: Smokin Joe on January 25, 2017, 06:27:02 pm
Federal highways crisscross the United States, but that doesn't mean the FBI is out writing speeding tickets, either. Nor should it be.

And Sanctuary Cities get federal monies, that doesn't mean because it is a city in a state, the Feds should just decide it's not their business.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2017, 06:34:34 pm »
Quote from: TomSea on January 25, 2017, 06:31:40 pm
And Sanctuary Cities get federal monies, that doesn't mean because it is a city in a state, the Feds should just decide it's not their business.
Hey, Tom, consider that is because those are Federal Laws against illegal immigration (defending our borders) which are being (defiantly) broken. Withhold the funds until the local areas come into compliance with the well known Federal Laws.
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How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline TomSea

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2017, 06:35:45 pm »
Law Enforcement already works together, FBI, State Police, City and County.  Pretty simple. If one of these is failing to do their job, another could step up.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2017, 06:39:04 pm »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

The Governor of Ohio sent in National Guard to Kent State.

I don't expect anything this severe; and if it is about "well known" Federal Laws like immigration,  that opens up quite a bit of leeway as to what could be done by the federal government.

The Federal Government might be able to hold back funds to Chicago, etc.

In fact, the Feds already should if Chicago is a sanctuary city.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 06:39:26 pm by TomSea »
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HonestJohn

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2017, 09:02:48 pm »
Quote from: TomSea on January 25, 2017, 04:50:26 pm
Alright, we compare a murder epidemic to coal plants. Good luck with that.

So you're saying that the federal government interfering with state issues is okay?
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HonestJohn

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2017, 09:04:23 pm »
Quote from: TomSea on January 25, 2017, 05:11:44 pm
Oklahoma City got bombed; maybe some said just let the state or city officials handle it, it's fine with me if the Feds go into some areas. That innocent people, 4 year olds seem to get killed with flying stray bullets may indicate a bit more of a problem than usual. Yes, that happens in most big cities from time to time.

A federal building in Oklahoma City got bombed.

At least get the story right, for pete's sake!
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Offline Night Hides Not

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2017, 09:06:03 pm »
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that President Trump is not a big fan of the Tenth Amendment.   22222frying pan
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HonestJohn

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #45 on: January 25, 2017, 09:07:32 pm »
Quote from: TomSea on January 25, 2017, 06:22:33 pm
Seems like some people think this is like the National Guard, a police action moving into Chicago, setting up check points, etc.

We don't really know what this means, it could easily mean the Federal Government looking at the situation and saying, if you don't fix this, you won't get federal funds.

When the National Guard does things like that, it's usually because the state governor activated the guard units within the state.
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HonestJohn

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2017, 09:08:31 pm »
Quote from: TomSea on January 25, 2017, 06:39:04 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

The Governor of Ohio sent in National Guard to Kent State.

I don't expect anything this severe; and if it is about "well known" Federal Laws like immigration,  that opens up quite a bit of leeway as to what could be done by the federal government.

The Federal Government might be able to hold back funds to Chicago, etc.

In fact, the Feds already should if Chicago is a sanctuary city.

Ahem.  Reread the bolded part of your post.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2017, 09:09:58 pm »
Quote from: HonestJohn on January 25, 2017, 09:02:48 pm
So you're saying that the federal government interfering with state issues is okay?

City, Chicago.

If we are talking about violations of human or civil rights, yes.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #48 on: January 25, 2017, 09:12:11 pm »
Quote from: HonestJohn on January 25, 2017, 09:08:31 pm
Ahem.  Reread the bolded part of your post.

Noted, thank you. I do believe I said Ohio Governor.

But then, say in 1963, '62, US troops, FBI agents as we know were sent to Mississippi.
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Offline ConstitutionRose

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Re: If Chicago doesn't fix the horrible "carnage" going on, 228 shootings in 2017 with 42 killings (up 24% from 2016), I will send in the Feds!
« Reply #49 on: January 25, 2017, 09:19:41 pm »
Quote from: geronl on January 25, 2017, 04:50:45 pm
What exactly does he think the federal government can do about it?

I'm clueless on that.  In one of the cities I lived in a Federal task fotce came in to give local law enforcement help with a gangs cleanup.  They did a good job of providing assistance.  Prosecuted and sent away a lot of gang members.  Even more left town and the ones left got very quiet.  Federal and local PARTNERSHIP can be very effective.
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