Author Topic: "A most dreadful inaugural address"  (Read 4950 times)

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Offline INVAR

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2017, 12:10:23 am »

President Trump may not have used the words from your textbook @INVAR , but he spoke of individual liberty and constitutional limits on government a few times.

Okay, let us be brutally honest here.

It does absolutely NO SERVICE to the cause of Constitutional Principled Conservatism to apply what we want to hear onto words that do not expressly state Conservative principles.   Because to do so illustrates devotion to a man, and not to the principles you say you are governed by.

Trump spoke in Nationalistic Populist language that any Leftist could have easily said themselves and received applause for from their own acolytes.

"We are one nation -- and their pain is our pain. Their dreams are our dreams; and their success will be our success. We share one heart, one home, and one glorious destiny."

How is that any different than Bill Clinton telling the country he 'feels their pain'??

Their Pain is 'our pain'???  Their 'dreams' are 'our dreams?'  Their success will be 'our success'???  That is raw, unadulterated Collectivism from a slightly different perspective than what Hillary would have spoken from.  The last 8 years have illustrated with perfect clarity that not everyone's 'dream' is my dream.  LaRaza's 'dream' is certainly not MY dream.  BLM's 'Dreams' are not 'our dreams'.  HALF the population of this land does NOT have the same dreams Americans used to have. 

The plights and poverties of those groups Trump listed are the results of Collectivist government handouts and interventions - picking winners and stealing from producers to give to a chosen Constituency.  Trump did not speak about those, or Individual Liberty - but rather he spoke of THE COLLECTIVE, and that IS NOT Conservative. 

REAGAN spoke about getting the monkey of Government OFF OUR BACKS, thereby creating OPPORTUNITY to forge our own destinies.  Reagan did not speak of using the government to create a 'shared destiny'.  The 'shared destiny' was simply that we had the opportunity and risk to craft our own.  Trump never touched that truth.

Quote
The oath of office I take today is an oath of allegiance to all Americans.

Trump's oath was supposed to be to the Constitution - NOT to the people.   WHICH people will Trump be beholden?  HIS people?  Obama said as much in his inaugurals.

Quote
spent trillions of dollars overseas while America's infrastructure has fallen into disrepair and decay.

2009 Stimulus anyone??  Anyone??? Buehler?  Buelher? 

They had APPROPRIATED and SPENT BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS for "infrastructure".  Where did it all go?  Why did Trump insinuate that all the money was spent on overseas adventures while not spending anything for infrastructure??

Trump did not discuss WHY companies have shuttered their doors and WHY a lot of industry has to operate outside the country. He did not discuss the punitive regulations, taxes, and government red tape that created a hostile environment for business.  He spoke about bringing all the jobs and businesses back here - simply by demanding everyone buy American.

Well what if I don't want to buy American and I want to buy something made in Japan, or Germany or Russia???  Do I have the liberty to do that or not anymore - or do I get to be punished for wanting to?

The power to force companies to build and operate here or face punitive tariffs is NOT pursuit and protection of individual liberty.  Trump was talking Protectionism, Nationalism - and those things tend to lead to world wars.


He spoke of this not as a preacher or an "I know better than you pseudo-intellectual", but in a way that reaches the American heart; and this is something conservatives would do well to learn and understand.

Trump spoke to the heart of Collectivist Nationalism, which has apparently become the 'American heart'.    He spoke to a people who are ignorant of, or by and large see no use for Constitutional Conservatism or Christian Principles and morality.  To a large segment of the population who thinks pragmatic 'government should be empowered to do this' and 'punish those'.  They are in many ways, no different than the Left - they simply differ on which prism to see things through - but act in much the same way.

Quote
At the bedrock of our politics will be a total allegiance to the United States of America, and through our loyalty to our country, we will rediscover our loyalty to each other.

That there is one of the most alarming things he said. 

The bedrock of our nation was the bible and the Christian religion that birthed the entire concept of individual liberty via a civil society.  Without that bedrock you have an uncivil society and liberty cannot exist.  As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of Masters, and thus begets Big Government Statism which a corrupt and vicious people will applaud in whatever hues it is offered.

A total allegiance to the state is blasphemy.   

My total allegiance and loyalty is to God alone, first and foremost, then family and then the Constitution.  Demanding loyalty to country in such manner is no different than other dictators demanded in the past.  A nation that abides in the confines of the Constitution and the Moral Law, rightly deserves my loyalty.  A nation that does not - will not.

Loyalty to one another comes OUT of a shared community of faith and belief that once forged our politics - not this bass awkwardness Trump spoke of.  Demanding fealty to country in the aims of unifying a people is how hard tyrannies are established.

Quote
When you open your heart to patriotism, there is no room for prejudice.

Really?  We are to open our hearts to God - not to a flag.   When you make Patriotism and Nationalism your religion - you commit Idolatry as far as God is concerned.  And, nationalism always breeds the worst kind of prejudices. Realizing we are all of God, and that His justice and His Righteousness are what makes life a blessing, is what eliminates prejudice.

It's beyond  stupefying how so many well-intentioned conservatives have so quickly succumbed to the very ideas and concepts that are anathema to a Constitutional Republic much less whatever biblical religion or tradition they assert they abide by.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline goatprairie

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2017, 12:30:50 am »
Trump will certainly be more conservative than the Bushes.
Well, I guess I would challenge that. His top advisor, other than himself, will be Ivanka....she's an out and out liberal. We shall see, but I doubt Trump will be much conservative. For one thing, his trade positions aligns with Bernie the Red's position. How is that conservative?

Offline goatprairie

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2017, 12:33:24 am »
I can't put my finger on it, actually: as I said on a different thread, the tone just makes me really uneasy.  Read the speech for yourself, without your blinders.  At the very least, he's promising a trade war, which things never end well.  If you take it at face value, it sounds like something ... well, like something a Putin or a Juan Peron might have said.  The best that can be said is that hopefully he didn't mean what he said.
My image of Trump is still that of puffed-up blowhard who is not nearly as smart as he thinks he is....and I voted for him....to avoid Hillary.

Wingnut

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2017, 02:28:11 am »
Okay, let us be brutally honest here.

It does absolutely NO SERVICE to the cause of Constitutional Principled Conservatism to apply what we want to hear onto words that do not expressly state Conservative principles.   Because to do so illustrates devotion to a man, and not to the principles you say you are governed by.

Trump spoke in Nationalistic Populist language that any Leftist could have easily said themselves and received applause for from their own acolytes.

"We are one nation -- and their pain is our pain. Their dreams are our dreams; and their success will be our success. We share one heart, one home, and one glorious destiny."

How is that any different than Bill Clinton telling the country he 'feels their pain'??

Their Pain is 'our pain'???  Their 'dreams' are 'our dreams?'  Their success will be 'our success'???  That is raw, unadulterated Collectivism from a slightly different perspective than what Hillary would have spoken from.  The last 8 years have illustrated with perfect clarity that not everyone's 'dream' is my dream.  LaRaza's 'dream' is certainly not MY dream.  BLM's 'Dreams' are not 'our dreams'.  HALF the population of this land does NOT have the same dreams Americans used to have. 

The plights and poverties of those groups Trump listed are the results of Collectivist government handouts and interventions - picking winners and stealing from producers to give to a chosen Constituency.  Trump did not speak about those, or Individual Liberty - but rather he spoke of THE COLLECTIVE, and that IS NOT Conservative. 

REAGAN spoke about getting the monkey of Government OFF OUR BACKS, thereby creating OPPORTUNITY to forge our own destinies.  Reagan did not speak of using the government to create a 'shared destiny'.  The 'shared destiny' was simply that we had the opportunity and risk to craft our own.  Trump never touched that truth.

Trump's oath was supposed to be to the Constitution - NOT to the people.   WHICH people will Trump be beholden?  HIS people?  Obama said as much in his inaugurals.

2009 Stimulus anyone??  Anyone??? Buehler?  Buelher? 

They had APPROPRIATED and SPENT BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS for "infrastructure".  Where did it all go?  Why did Trump insinuate that all the money was spent on overseas adventures while not spending anything for infrastructure??

Trump did not discuss WHY companies have shuttered their doors and WHY a lot of industry has to operate outside the country. He did not discuss the punitive regulations, taxes, and government red tape that created a hostile environment for business.  He spoke about bringing all the jobs and businesses back here - simply by demanding everyone buy American.

Well what if I don't want to buy American and I want to buy something made in Japan, or Germany or Russia???  Do I have the liberty to do that or not anymore - or do I get to be punished for wanting to?

The power to force companies to build and operate here or face punitive tariffs is NOT pursuit and protection of individual liberty.  Trump was talking Protectionism, Nationalism - and those things tend to lead to world wars.


Trump spoke to the heart of Collectivist Nationalism, which has apparently become the 'American heart'.    He spoke to a people who are ignorant of, or by and large see no use for Constitutional Conservatism or Christian Principles and morality.  To a large segment of the population who thinks pragmatic 'government should be empowered to do this' and 'punish those'.  They are in many ways, no different than the Left - they simply differ on which prism to see things through - but act in much the same way.

That there is one of the most alarming things he said. 

The bedrock of our nation was the bible and the Christian religion that birthed the entire concept of individual liberty via a civil society.  Without that bedrock you have an uncivil society and liberty cannot exist.  As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of Masters, and thus begets Big Government Statism which a corrupt and vicious people will applaud in whatever hues it is offered.

A total allegiance to the state is blasphemy.   

My total allegiance and loyalty is to God alone, first and foremost, then family and then the Constitution.  Demanding loyalty to country in such manner is no different than other dictators demanded in the past.  A nation that abides in the confines of the Constitution and the Moral Law, rightly deserves my loyalty.  A nation that does not - will not.

Loyalty to one another comes OUT of a shared community of faith and belief that once forged our politics - not this bass awkwardness Trump spoke of.  Demanding fealty to country in the aims of unifying a people is how hard tyrannies are established.

Really?  We are to open our hearts to God - not to a flag.   When you make Patriotism and Nationalism your religion - you commit Idolatry as far as God is concerned.  And, nationalism always breeds the worst kind of prejudices. Realizing we are all of God, and that His justice and His Righteousness are what makes life a blessing, is what eliminates prejudice.

It's beyond  stupefying how so many well-intentioned conservatives have so quickly succumbed to the very ideas and concepts that are anathema to a Constitutional Republic much less whatever biblical religion or tradition they assert they abide by.

I just noticed.   You like to talk.  A lot. 

Offline INVAR

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2017, 02:47:29 am »
I just noticed.   You like to talk.  A lot.

My bad.  I thought this was a discussion forum, not a Twitter account.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Wingnut

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2017, 02:54:07 am »
My bad.  I thought this was a discussion forum, not a Twitter account.

Just pointing out to you that you do have a tendency to run your mouth....  A whole lot...and not say anything.    But what do I know.   :shrug:

Offline txradioguy

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2017, 03:17:49 am »
Washington Post, favored source for once fairly good Republican Conservative Political Forum.

Soooooo glad you found another way to complain about TBR and insult members besides sounding like a Puritan over the word "fellatio".

Do you find enjoyment in telling kids Santa doesn't exist too?

Because you seem to be incapable of just enjoying g your moment with Donny and letting it stop there.

If you want to be this sour on a regular basis go over to TOS and trash us.

« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 03:18:17 am by txradioguy »
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2017, 03:19:50 am »
Trump will certainly be more conservative than the Bushes.

Yeah...sure he will.  :silly:
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline TomSea

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2017, 03:25:44 am »
Just pointing out to you that you do have a tendency to run your mouth....  A whole lot...and not say anything.    But what do I know.   :shrug:

@Wingnut
You know a lot, I apologize if we and Frank Cannon, all got in a tussle the other day. I really respect all of you and follow your posts closely.

Offline TomSea

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2017, 03:28:19 am »
This is 2016,

At least for me, in 2001 after 911; one could suspect about anything.

Different times. We are definitely in dangerous times again as well.

The specter of Terrorism, secure borders, these 2 simple issues by themselves did a lot for Trump, one can talk about checklist conservatism.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2017, 03:31:05 am »
This is 2016,

At least for me, in 2001 after 911; one could suspect about anything.

Different times. We are definitely in dangerous times again as well.

The specter of Terrorism, secure borders, these 2 simple issues by themselves did a lot for Trump, one can talk about checklist conservatism.

Now the trick is going to be holding his feet to both of those issues.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline TomSea

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2017, 03:44:04 am »
TxRadioGuy expresses himself well; I apologize for anytime I offended him and thank him for his service to our country.

I came over here not from TOS, not from there really, I read it ever so often, but from another website, where they really keep people in line per conduct; it almost made me paranoid of saying the wrong thing.

@Sanguine too; if things got a bit verbal the other night. A real asset to this forum.



I was born down there, I can go on, I had relatives killed by Comanches down there but like Buddy Holly, sometimes the wayward wind takes us to other places.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2017, 03:47:13 am »
My bad.  I thought this was a discussion forum, not a Twitter account.

Some people talk a lot and have nothing to say. You fall under that category.

BTW, Will was a huge Howard Baker supporter in '80. When that campaign collapsed he hitched his wagon to another POS loser, George Bush. Reagan was practically elected before Will supported him. Will should just devote his worthless life writing long winded tomes on how baseball is the true meaning of life and skip political analysis all together because he stinks at it.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 03:48:32 am by Frank Cannon »

Offline txradioguy

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2017, 03:53:28 am »
TxRadioGuy expresses himself well; I apologize for anytime I offended him and thank him for his service to our country.

I came over here not from TOS, not from there really, I read it ever so often, but from another website, where they really keep people in line per conduct; it almost made me paranoid of saying the wrong thing.

@Sanguine too; if things got a bit verbal the other night. A real asset to this forum.



I was born down there, I can go on, I had relatives killed by Comanches down there but like Buddy Holly, sometimes the wayward wind takes us to other places.

 :beer:
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline INVAR

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2017, 03:54:30 am »
Just pointing out to you that you do have a tendency to run your mouth....  A whole lot...and not say anything.    But what do I know.   :shrug:

My apologies.

Comprehension of grammatical English is not everyone's skill set.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline INVAR

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2017, 03:58:00 am »
Some people talk a lot and have nothing to say. You fall under that category.

I know.

Discussing principles oftentimes sails right over the heads of those who cannot grasp the concepts.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Wingnut

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2017, 04:05:49 am »
My apologies.

Comprehension of grammatical English is not everyone's skill set.

You are always a gentleman and I see you do understand brevity.  Please endeavor to employ it more often in your posts.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 04:06:33 am by Wingnut »

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2017, 04:13:48 am »
I know.

Discussing principles oftentimes sails right over the heads of those who cannot grasp the concepts.

Principles? All I hear from you pearl clutching NeverTrumps is bashing based on sophistry and bullshit. I actually own a business. I and other business owners have been dumped on for the last 8 years to the point that I and some of my compatriots in the area had to let people go, had the govt up our ass for stupid shit and just getting affordable healthcare for our own families has become a dream. Now there is a new President doing better things for us right off the bat and I have nattering nebobs of negativism spamming the boards with high minded bullshit that defies the real world. Under your warped rubric Reagan would be considered a Lib Rat.

Here's a tip Jackson. Get out of your mother's basement, get a real job and grow the eff up.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2017, 04:15:45 am »
TxRadioGuy expresses himself well; I apologize for anytime I offended him and thank him for his service to our country.

I came over here not from TOS, not from there really, I read it ever so often, but from another website, where they really keep people in line per conduct; it almost made me paranoid of saying the wrong thing.

@Sanguine too; if things got a bit verbal the other night. A real asset to this forum.



I was born down there, I can go on, I had relatives killed by Comanches down there but like Buddy Holly, sometimes the wayward wind takes us to other places.

Tom, not sure what happened, but it's nice.

 :beer:

Wingnut

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #44 on: January 22, 2017, 04:25:12 am »
@Wingnut
You know a lot, I apologize if we and Frank Cannon, all got in a tussle the other day. I really respect all of you and follow your posts closely.

It's all good.  Some times we all need to "lighten up".....even this Francis! 

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2017, 04:33:06 am »
@Wingnut
You know a lot, I apologize if we and Frank Cannon, all got in a tussle the other day. I really respect all of you and follow your posts closely.

Tommy, you shouldn't follow anything I post. It's all stream of consciousness garbage from a slumlord in PA. There is only one guy here with the intellectual heft that deserves following. @massadvj .

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2017, 04:49:15 am »
Principles? All I hear from you pearl clutching NeverTrumps is bashing based on sophistry and bullshit. I actually own a business. I and other business owners have been dumped on for the last 8 years to the point that I and some of my compatriots in the area had to let people go, had the govt up our ass for stupid shit and just getting affordable healthcare for our own families has become a dream. Now there is a new President doing better things for us right off the bat and I have nattering nebobs of negativism spamming the boards with high minded bullshit that defies the real world. Under your warped rubric Reagan would be considered a Lib Rat.

Here's a tip Jackson. Get out of your mother's basement, get a real job and grow the eff up.

Dadgum, Frank!   That was so splendid...I'm gonna read it again!

 :beer:
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Offline INVAR

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2017, 04:50:18 am »
You are always a gentleman and I see you do understand brevity.  Please endeavor to employ it more often in your posts.

Depends on how passionate I am in regards to the subject matter or point I'm attempting to articulate.

In an effort to avoid the appearance of snark and Richard, I'm attempting to take the time to explain principles.

I will be the first to admit I am not a soul of wit. 

Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2017, 04:55:19 am »
Tommy, you shouldn't follow anything I post. It's all stream of consciousness garbage from a slumlord in PA. There is only one guy here with the intellectual heft that deserves following. @massadvj .

Yep.... our own 'John Houseman'   :beer:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

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Re: "A most dreadful inaugural address"
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2017, 04:55:47 am »
Tom, not sure what happened, but it's nice.

 :beer:

Should I take him off ignore (again) and see what happens?  I'll sleep on that.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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