Author Topic: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?  (Read 2052 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline CSM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 558
What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« on: January 18, 2017, 04:46:38 pm »
OK, I'm making my first attempt at posting an article for discussion.  I have no idea what I am doing, but I hope that some find this interesting.

-snip-

The phrase "border adjustment tax" has been in the news recently, with it being a part of the GOP’s “A Better Way” Blueprint (available here). What exactly, though, is a border adjustment tax?

-snip-

In a nutshell, a border adjustment tax means that a tax is levied on imports (goods made overseas but sold in the United States) and exports are not taxed (goods made in the United States but sold elsewhere).

-snip-

Border adjustments would be new for U.S. taxation; but, it’s not a novel concept in taxation generally. Many countries have taxes known as “value-added taxes” (VATs). At bottom, a value-added tax is a consumption tax (meaning its effectively borne by the end consumer), which is generally collected as a percentage of sales price. In effect, then, the tax is levied at each stage of production.

-end snip-

Source link:  http://www.forbes.com/sites/timtodd/2017/01/17/what-is-a-border-adjustment-tax/#1f03117d1d47


Offline CSM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 558
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2017, 04:49:05 pm »
My apologies if I did not post this properly.  However, I thought the information is important for my fellow Conservatives.

The left has been pushing for a VAT for decades and the "right" is about to give it to them.

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2017, 05:51:50 pm »
Great first post CSM.

And you're right about what is about to happen.

I had to deal with the VAT for 6 years in Germany. It is a favorite tax tool of the Euro weenie governments.

Everything from electricity for my house to a chair I bought at IKEA were subject to it.

We could get exemption forms. But they cost $$$ to aquire from the MWR office.

And I know you know this stuff  just saying it for the rest of the folks that don't know that.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 05:55:47 pm by txradioguy »
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Online libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 58,057
  • Gender: Female
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2017, 06:07:23 pm »
My apologies if I did not post this properly.  However, I thought the information is important for my fellow Conservatives.

The left has been pushing for a VAT for decades and the "right" is about to give it to them.

Link please...what bill are they trying to pass?
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2017, 06:10:50 pm »
Link please...what bill are they trying to pass?

He did link to it.

Gotta read all the way to the bottom of the OP.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,826
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2017, 06:18:00 pm »
Right now we have a thing called the Corporate Income Tax in this country!  What it is in reality is a subtraction method VAT that puts everything produced in this country at a competitive disadvantage in the world marketplace because there is literally NO way to back out the taxes and all of the compliance costs it imposes at the border.  THAT is a VERY bad thing and what the article linked to is talking about is trying to fix that!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,826
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2017, 06:25:26 pm »
The way it should work, using Forbes'example, is the exporter of a $5 mil. product costing $4mil would pay no business tax, but the $1mil profit would flow through and be taxed as income on the personal return, preferably at a low rate of 13%. All undistributed business income, wages, dividends, are taxed at the same rate so workers and shareholders pay the same rate. If the same product was imported for $4mil and sold for $5mil, the first buyer from the port doesn't deduct the $4mil purchase FOR TAX PURPOSES ONLY. The business side pays 13% on 4mil. Profit and loss are still calculated the same way for accounting purposes (the tax calculation changes only one line item on the income statement: federal tax due) so the 1mil profit is paid on the personal return at 13%. Compared to a domestic good, it is the same taxation. A domestic good will have the 13% tax already embedded (at every stage of production) in the $4mil cost. This doesn't disadvantage imports, it puts them on an even playing field with domestic goods.

As long as investment is exempt, both scenarios create incentives at the margin to locate and invest here.

The root of the problem is that exports are double taxed (US tax code embedded in its cost structure plus a VAT in country of destination) and imports are non taxed (free of VAT in country of origin and not taxed bu US).

If investment is exempt, this is a step toward a consumption tax.  A GOOD thing IMHO!

If investment is not exempt, then it won't have much juice.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,127
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2017, 06:59:43 pm »
"In a nutshell, a border adjustment tax means that a tax is levied on imports (goods made overseas but sold in the United States) and exports are not taxed (goods made in the United States but sold elsewhere)."

Exports might not be taxed by the US, but they sure as heck would be taxed as much as imports.
My avatar shows the national debt in stacks of $100 bills.  If you look very closely under the crane you can see the Statue of Liberty.

Offline CSM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 558
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2017, 07:49:08 pm »
@Bigun

I strongly favor a consumption tax, specifically the FairTax.  The problem that I see here is that this proposal does not eliminate any tax, but is adding a new form of taxation that is very similar to a VAT.  I think this is a very dangerous tool to establish for the future use by another set of Marxists!


Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,826
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2017, 07:53:11 pm »
@Bigun

I strongly favor a consumption tax, specifically the FairTax.  The problem that I see here is that this proposal does not eliminate any tax, but is adding a new form of taxation that is very similar to a VAT.  I think this is a very dangerous tool to establish for the future use by another set of Marxists!

It fully depends on what it actually looks like when they get around to actually voting on it! I HOPE it looks something like what I described above!

If it doesn't I will not support it!

"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline rodamala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,534
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2017, 09:41:04 pm »

...a value-added tax is a consumption tax (meaning its effectively borne by the end consumer)...


ALL taxes are "borne by" the end user.

Offline ABX

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 900
  • Words full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2017, 09:49:45 pm »
ALL taxes are "borne by" the end user.

All of this reminds me of an old episode of The Simpsons where the President had to 'sell' a hugh tax hike. They came up with 'Temporary Refund Adjustment' because everyone likes refunds.

The names may change, but who gets the shaft stays the same.

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,826
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2017, 09:55:58 pm »
ALL taxes are "borne by" the end user.

An incontrovertible fact!

Which is why we ought to end the subterfuge of the income tax system permanently and return to the form of taxation our founders universally endorsed!

Taxes on articles of consumption only!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,127
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2017, 01:59:41 am »
An incontrovertible fact!

Which is why we ought to end the subterfuge of the income tax system permanently and return to the form of taxation our founders universally endorsed!

Taxes on articles of consumption only!

Any thoughts on how to do that without screwing over seniors (in particular)?

Consumption based taxation is nice in theory.  But if you've already been primarily taxed on your income, and now all taxes are levied on consumption, you're getting hit from both directions.
My avatar shows the national debt in stacks of $100 bills.  If you look very closely under the crane you can see the Statue of Liberty.

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,826
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2017, 02:08:38 am »
Any thoughts on how to do that without screwing over seniors (in particular)?

Consumption based taxation is nice in theory.  But if you've already been primarily taxed on your income, and now all taxes are levied on consumption, you're getting hit from both directions.

I am myself a senior and strongly favor the fairtax.

https://fairtax.org/index
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 02:13:04 am by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Cripplecreek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,718
  • Gender: Male
  • Constitutional Extremist
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2017, 02:33:28 am »
Great first post CSM.

And you're right about what is about to happen.

I had to deal with the VAT for 6 years in Germany. It is a favorite tax tool of the Euro weenie governments.

Everything from electricity for my house to a chair I bought at IKEA were subject to it.

We could get exemption forms. But they cost $$$ to aquire from the MWR office.

And I know you know this stuff  just saying it for the rest of the folks that don't know that.

Its sad that so many Americans are apparently clueless about what import tariffs will do to costs. Even Trump has said that costs would go up "a little" but what he thinks of as a little is probably a whole different animal than what most of us think of as a little.

I've had a few particularly dense individuals suggest that I just don't buy foreign made goods if I don't want to pay the extra costs. These are the simple morons who believe there are 100% American made cars.

Offline rodamala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,534
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2017, 04:53:10 am »
Any thoughts on how to do that without screwing over seniors (in particular)?

Consumption based taxation is nice in theory.  But if you've already been primarily taxed on your income, and now all taxes are levied on consumption, you're getting hit from both directions.

200% tax on Pumpkin Spice Lattes.  Hipsters and Liberal Arts Majors hardest hit.

Offline CSM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 558
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2017, 01:21:32 pm »
200% tax on Pumpkin Spice Lattes.  Hipsters and Liberal Arts Majors hardest hit.

"OK, that there is funny!  I don't care who you are!" -Larry the cable guy

Online DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,281
  • Gender: Male
  • "...and the winning number is...not yours!
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2017, 02:05:54 pm »
It's sorta like an attitude adjustment.     :smokin:


...for manufacturers.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 02:06:42 pm by DCPatriot »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2017, 02:20:06 pm »
Conceptually, I like the idea of a "border adjustment tax".    As I understand it,  it would be coupled with a reduction in the corporate tax rate from its current uncompetitive 35% (I think) to, say, 20%.   However,  a company would be denied a deduction from gross income in calculating its corporate income tax by the value of imported materials/components.  It would effectively encourage corporations to utilize U.S.- made materials/components in order to lower their corporate tax liability.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

HonestJohn

  • Guest
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2017, 06:05:00 pm »
200% tax on Pumpkin Spice Lattes.  Hipsters and Liberal Arts Majors hardest hit.

And also...

200% tax on gasoline and diesel.  Farmers and truckers hardest hit.

Offline rodamala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,534
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2017, 07:05:37 am »
And also...

200% tax on gasoline and diesel.  Farmers and truckers hardest hit.

@HonestJohn

I live in PA...

"The following rates are effective Jan. 1, 2017, and apply to tax periods through calendar year 2017. The tax rates will be indicated on future Motor Fuel Tax Reports issued by the department."

Aviation gasoline   $0.055/gallon
Jet fuel   $0.016/gallon
Liquid fuels (motor gasoline and gasohol)   $0.582/gallon
Fuels (undyed diesel and undyed kerosene)   $0.747/gallon

At the start of 2017, every time I would fill up the Dodge, 99.1 cents on every gallon (33% of the current price... in the town the goddamned diesel was refined, mind you... was state and Federal tax.

I have solved this problem, however, much in the same way as I have solved the cigarette tax problem...

I give the Senecas up in NY State wampum, and in return they give me tax-free smokes and diesel fuel.

Offline Hondo69

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,673
  • The more I know the less I understand
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2017, 11:15:46 am »
It's sorta like an attitude adjustment.     :smokin:


...for manufacturers.

 :beer:

I've been self employed for over 20 years and I could use one king hell of an attitude adjustment.  Somehow I don't think me and the government will ever get on the same page on this however.

I could make a strong case for deducting my booze expenses, for example.  Keeps me semi-sane.


Online DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46,281
  • Gender: Male
  • "...and the winning number is...not yours!
Re: What Is A Border Adjustment Tax?
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2017, 11:38:21 am »
:beer:

I've been self employed for over 20 years and I could use one king hell of an attitude adjustment.  Somehow I don't think me and the government will ever get on the same page on this however.

I could make a strong case for deducting my booze expenses, for example.  Keeps me semi-sane.



I feel ya, @Hondo69 

Been self-employed for over 50 years.

Maybe that's why it was so simple to understand...get behind...and support Donald Trump's candidacy.  And to be able to predict with confidence that we'd be here today, sipping champagne, in victory.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald