Author Topic: Hysterical Fruitbag Lindsey Graham Indicates Active Investigations of Trump Administration Over Russian Ties  (Read 7869 times)

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HonestJohn

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Why do people keep bringing up The Crimea. The Crimea has belonged to Russia for 250 years. Russia fought the Ottoman Empire and the British to keep the Crimea.  Russia was not going to allow the Crimea to fall into unfriendly hands. No freakin way, Russia largest naval base is located there. The Crimea is vital to Russian security. Only neocon fools would think Russia would allow a NATO friendly Ukraine to take over the Crimea.

And Moscow was a Kievan colony as well.

Return Moscow and it's territory back to it's rightful owners.


HonestJohn

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Yeah, that's kind of the difficulty with the whole thing.  No, we don't want one country taking part of another country by force.  But the truth is that the Crimea was historically a part of Russian, the people were overwhelming Russian, not Ukrainian, and wanted to be part of Russia.  So the principles of national sovereignty and self-determination collided.

We need to get over that one in a way that looks reasonable.

No, Crimeans were historically Tatars.  It wasn't until the Russian empire built a naval base in the peninsula did large numbers of Russians suddenly appear.

Offline Cripplecreek

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Why not just sell weapons and training packages to them?

Why does it always end up as an either-or situation, where we *MUST* either ignore them or put soldiers in place to defend them?

It's a false dichotomy.

This isn't the same as putting troops in an active war zone like Afghanistan or Iraq. We won't be shooting at Russian troops and they won't be shooting at us. Its not like we'll be sending troops to try to drive the Russians out of the Crimean peninsula. Once Russia seized the Crimea is was gone and won't be regained by force. Unfortunately Russia is making expansionist moves again like screwing with the Ukrainian elections (With Paul Manafort having a pro Russian role there)

I have friends who served in places like west Germany during the cold war. He called it show and tell where Americans and Europeans would conduct war games while the Soviets watched then the Soviets, Czechs, East Germans etc would conduct war games while we watched. Our troops are probably in greater danger in Turkey than they ever were while guarding the iron curtain.

I'm seeing a lot of wildly overblown hyperbole out of the pro trump crowd about starting a new cold war or how millions will die. The simple fact is that the Russian attempt to screw with our election was a massive escalation in hostilities on the part of the Russians.

At the end of the day, Obama's weakness has encouraged Russian aggression just like we knew it would. Lets not forget, this whole operation to manipulate our election happened during Obama's feckless watch.

Offline sneakypete

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Well, you're not outinghim.  You're just deducing that he is gay from publicly known facts.   And I'd if it is that obvious, then a blackmailer doesn't have anything over which to blackmail him, because people already know he's gay anyway.

The only time the blackmail works is if people already don't know.

@Maj. Bill Martin

I'm betting that people didn't know that when he first ran for office and was elected.

Now that he is in office,the Party People that voted for him  will never believe he is homosexual,not even if he shows up as a Prom Queen at a Fire Island party.

None of which means he doesn't have a public image he wants to protect. Even Barney from Mass denied he was a homosexual until his boyfriend was caught pimping young men out at their townhouse,and he was a Dim from Mass. Lady Lindsey is from South Carolina,and has a military pension to protect,also. IIRC,he is a Colonel in the USAF. He's a JAG Lawyer,not a zoomie.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline uglybiker

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I thought Trump Ties were made in China?  22222frying pan
nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-BATMAN!!!

Wingnut

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I thought Trump Ties were made in China?  22222frying pan

Those ties don't bind.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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I am trying to remember that I am not a politician when I answer to this.  I know I am just a mere citizen.  But I know that Russia invading the Ukraine was wrong.  At least in my mere citizen mind. 

Now I am no Lindsey Graham fan and certainly not Joke John McCain.  But Russia did just try to manipulate our election.  Trump said it had no affect, and I don't know.  But I don't live in Russia and they need to butt the hell out. 

Everyone gung hoe on fighting terrorism with our greatest buddies are not really thinking.  Try doing some research on who Russia's top buddies are.

http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/12/russia-picks-nuclear-allies-imminent-war-nato/

https://www.rt.com/news/373146-iran-russia-uranium-shipment/
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 05:44:52 am by Chosen Daughter »
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline uglybiker

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Those ties don't bind.
Unless you have a kinky girlfriend. :smokin:
nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-BATMAN!!!

Offline Frank Cannon

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Unless you have a kinky girlfriend. :smokin:

Then the ties might also chafe.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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I am trying to remember that I am not a politician when I answer to this.  I know I am just a mere citizen.  But I know that Russia invading the Ukraine was wrong.  At least in my mere citizen mind.

I personally see a distinction between what happened in the Crimea, and what happened in the post-Crimean Ukraine.  Neither was "right" according to international law, but the truth is that Crimea should never have been part of the Ukraine in the first place.  That's just a reality, and if we decide to hang on to that bone like a rapid dog into the indefinite future, it's not going to be in our national interests.

What is needed is some sort of comprehensive resolution where the Russians agree to butt-out of the rest of the Ukraine in exchange for both sides agreeing to respect the results of an independent plebiscite in the Crimea.  The plebiscite would be won easily by the ethnic Russian majority, but would at least add a stamp of legitimacy/legality of transferring it to Russian control.  there would then be a basis to normalize relations again.

Offline sneakypete

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Quote
I am trying to remember that I am not a politician when I answer to this.  I know I am just a mere citizen.  But I know that Russia invading the Ukraine was wrong.  At least in my mere citizen mind. 

It is a lot like the North invading the south during our own Civil War. Ukraine and Russia were both settled by the same Viking tribe,the Rus,and Ukraine basically annexed Russia. Yup. Originally Ukraine was the top dog in that situation,and Russia was ruled out of Kiev. I think the common phrase of today that best describes this is "Ukraine was Russia's baby daddy". This unity lasted until the 12th Century. Since then it has been a on-again,off-again marriage.

The prime difference is unlike America,Ukrainians and Russians are both Slavs. Their languages are even very similar,and every Russian I have ever met considers Ukraine to be a part of Russia,like most Americans consider South Carolina is a part of America,but a relationship going back to pre-history. Many Ukrainians have a different point of view on that,and many agree with that POV. The ones who disagree are mostly the one who are tired of Ukraine being ruled by forces from outside like Genghis Khan,Poland,and Soviets. They are not necessarily anti-Russia,but they are damn sure anti-Soviet,and therein lies the problem. They are in effect 98 lb weaklings who don't trust the 300 lb gym rat on steroids that lives next door,and for good reason. It's easy for US to accept that Russia is no longer the Soviet Union,but considerably more difficult for many Ukrainians to accept that as being true.

 
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Now I am no Lindsey Graham fan and certainly not Joke John McCain.  But Russia did just try to manipulate our election.

Yeah,just like WE tried to manipulate their election.  This is what nations do. ALL nations. All governments do this for the very basic reason that "Job Number 1" for every government is to make sure that government stays in power and safe from being taken over by other nations. It ain't nothing personal,it's just normal government business at work.

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Trump said it had no affect, and I don't know.
Where was the DNC and the 'murikan lefties when FDR and the DNC was basically controlled by the Soviet Politburo? You never heard them complaining about that,did you? Right now they hate Russia because unlike the DNC and the 'murikan left,Russia gave up on Communism as a failed system and political philosophy.

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But I don't live in Russia and they need to butt the hell out. 

More correctly,WE need to butt the hell out. What would you think if Texas decided to secede from the Union,and Russia and China wanted to start building military bases in Russia to help protect the newly sovereign nation of Texas
?


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Everyone gung hoe on fighting terrorism with our greatest buddies are not really thinking.

Anyone who CAN'T see the advantages to that needs a seeing eye dog to both see AND think for them. It such an obvious step to make that Stevie Wonder has to wear shades to look at it.

 
Quote
Try doing some research on who Russia's top buddies are.

Russia,like every other sovereign nation,including the US,doesn't have "buddies". They/we/everyone has "allies of convenience".  WHY am I having to explain this?



Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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I personally see a distinction between what happened in the Crimea, and what happened in the post-Crimean Ukraine.  Neither was "right" according to international law, but the truth is that Crimea should never have been part of the Ukraine in the first place.  That's just a reality, and if we decide to hang on to that bone like a rapid dog into the indefinite future, it's not going to be in our national interests.

@Maj. Bill Martin

BINGO!

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What is needed is some sort of comprehensive resolution where the Russians agree to butt-out of the rest of the Ukraine in exchange for both sides agreeing to respect the results of an independent plebiscite in the Crimea.  The plebiscite would be won easily by the ethnic Russian majority, but would at least add a stamp of legitimacy/legality of transferring it to Russian control.  there would then be a basis to normalize relations again.

Not really sure that would work,but I am pretty sure that every other suggestion I have heard put forward will NOT work. It's damn sure worth a try.

One thing I am POSITIVE about,and that is building permanent US military bases on Ukrainian soil is a recipe for disaster. How would WE take Russia building permanent military bases in Canada and Mexico? Bases that would inevitably end up having fighter bombers with nuclear missiles and bombs? How would THAT contribute to "an atmosphere of trust and understanding for peace now and in the future"?

Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Wingnut

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Then the ties might also chafe.

You have to separate the wheat from the chafe......  or the chaff from the oatmeal poultice?

Offline sneakypete

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You have to separate the wheat from the chafe......  or the chaff from the oatmeal poultice?

@Wingnut @Frank Cannon

HUH? How did a discussion about a fruit (Lindsey Graham) turn into a discussion about grain.

Getting back to Lady Lindsey,if you have any questions about what is best to use to tie someone up,I suspect he may just happen to be an authority on that subject,and it might be best to just address him directly?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline truth_seeker

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At what time in history, and according to what code of laws, does an outsider arrange the borders of a very complex region?

For true students of history,  Denmark and Norway mainly look westward, but Sweden (Varangians) looked more eastward--Poland, Finland, Russia etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varangians

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Wingnut

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@Wingnut @Frank Cannon

HUH? How did a discussion about a fruit (Lindsey Graham) turn into a discussion about grain.


@Frank Cannon @sneakypete @Once-Ler @Cyber Liberty

Grain?   Actually it was bondage restrtaints  and lubes...but what the hell. :smokin:
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 05:39:50 pm by Wingnut »

Offline kevindavis007

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I think it is warranted..
Join The Reagan Caucus: https://reagancaucus.org/ and the Eisenhower Caucus: https://EisenhowerCaucus.org

Ronald Reagan: “Rather than...talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems and make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit…earning here they pay taxes here.”

Offline Cripplecreek

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I think it is warranted..

@kevindavis

Of course it is. It resulted from the weakness of the Obama administration and republicans resisting doing anything about it makes them look weak at the very least.

Despite user claims that only democrats were hacked we have no real reason to believe that republicans weren't hacked.

Offline sneakypete

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At what time in history, and according to what code of laws, does an outsider arrange the borders of a very complex region?

@truth_seeker

Ever since the dawn of time,and there became such a thing as multiple nations. That doesn't mean it's right though,and we need to STOP that crap,NOW! This is the kind of crap that leads to all-out wars.The people who profit from war may be overjoyed at the thought,but wars are hard on everyone else.


Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline kevindavis007

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@kevindavis

Of course it is. It resulted from the weakness of the Obama administration and republicans resisting doing anything about it makes them look weak at the very least.

Despite user claims that only democrats were hacked we have no real reason to believe that republicans weren't hacked.


@Cripplecreek


I think that both sides were hacked..
Join The Reagan Caucus: https://reagancaucus.org/ and the Eisenhower Caucus: https://EisenhowerCaucus.org

Ronald Reagan: “Rather than...talking about putting up a fence, why don’t we work out some recognition of our mutual problems and make it possible for them to come here legally with a work permit…earning here they pay taxes here.”

Online libertybele

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I am trying to remember that I am not a politician when I answer to this.  I know I am just a mere citizen.  But I know that Russia invading the Ukraine was wrong.  At least in my mere citizen mind. 

Now I am no Lindsey Graham fan and certainly not Joke John McCain.  But Russia did just try to manipulate our election.  Trump said it had no affect, and I don't know.  But I don't live in Russia and they need to butt the hell out. 

Everyone gung hoe on fighting terrorism with our greatest buddies are not really thinking.  Try doing some research on who Russia's top buddies are.

http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/12/russia-picks-nuclear-allies-imminent-war-nato/

https://www.rt.com/news/373146-iran-russia-uranium-shipment/

I agree with your assessment; Russia tried to manipulate our election.  Regardless of reason or outcome, we should be concerned and we should utilize the utmost extreme caution in considering Russia a 'partner' in fighting terrorism.  Russia's main allies are China, India, Syria, and Iran!  Hopefully the security and military advisers that Trump nominated have a handle on this and hopefully he'll listen.  Personally, where Putin is concerned IMHO, I think Trump is in for a rude awakening; if Trump thinks he just going to waltz in and re-negotiate trade deals with China and it affects Russia, it's not going to happen.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 07:05:25 pm by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

HonestJohn

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I agree with your assessment; Russia tried to manipulate our election.  Regardless of reason or outcome, we should be concerned and we should utilize the utmost extreme caution in considering Russia a 'partner' in fighting terrorism.  Russia's main allies are China, India, Syria, and Iran!  Hopefully the security and military advisers that Trump nominated have a handle on this and hopefully he'll listen.  Personally, where Putin is concerned IMHO, I think Trump is in for a rude awakening; if Trump thinks he just going to waltz in and re-negotiate trade deals with China and it affects Russia, it's not going to happen.

China's not an ally to Russia.  Any documents of friendship aren't worth the paper they are printed on. 

That said, the Russian far east is filled with raw materials China needs.  China plays nice with Russia to gain access to them.  Russia accepts this as they need the money China has... and because they know that the Russian populaton and military strength in their far east is very thin.  That China can easily take half of Russia in a heartbeat... and only nukes could stop it.

China hasn't forgotten the Russian annexation of Chinese territories.  Both Khabarovsk and Vladivostok are in former Chinese territory.  Nor of the Russian occupation of the Liaodong peninsula.

Or of the unequal treaties Russia forced China to sign.

China didn't forget Britain's actions (the Opium Wars... Hongkong, etc).  They didn't forget the French.  They haven't forgotten the Japanese. 

And they haven't forgotten Russia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li–Lobanov_Treaty
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Intervention
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amur_Acquisition
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_of_Peking
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Aigun

---

Out of the historic western players in China...America is the only one of which they have a positive memory.  We really only wanted to trade.  And we had no national level issue with Chinese immigration.  (At least, in the beginning)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 08:03:58 pm by HonestJohn »

Offline sneakypete

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@Cripplecreek


I think that both sides were hacked..

@kevindavis

I'm not a betting man,but I'd bet money on that one.

The thing to focus on is how DEEPLY were both sides hacked. When it came to Bubbette! and her DNC accomplices,not much hacking was needed. Your typical Jr High School geek could have read all their mail. A  high,and not in the GOOD way,government official with access to damn near everything uses "password" as his password,and then Bubbette! herself sending out emails in the clear with TS info in there??????? Gimme a freaking break!

My best guess is the Russians had a lot more trouble hacking into Trumps data.He has to be conscious of security or he would go bankrupt.
That's not saying they didn't get SOMETHING from someone attached to his campaign,though.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline truth_seeker

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I guess the typical low-information people can be stirred up over something they know very little about.

In "The Art of War," Sun Tzu writes about successful strategies and tactics for warfare; including espionage, deception etc.

Espionage, deception, have been around for a very long time.

Anybody coming up today "shocked" over Russia doing what everybody has been doing, is naïve.

When Eisenhower ordered CIA operative Gary Powers to fly over the USSR in 1960 and take photos, I doubt that "Republicans" would quickly condemn the President, or Powers.

The point: Both sides have been and will CONTINUE doing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Gary_Powers

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Offline Chosen Daughter

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I personally see a distinction between what happened in the Crimea, and what happened in the post-Crimean Ukraine.  Neither was "right" according to international law, but the truth is that Crimea should never have been part of the Ukraine in the first place.  That's just a reality, and if we decide to hang on to that bone like a rapid dog into the indefinite future, it's not going to be in our national interests.

What is needed is some sort of comprehensive resolution where the Russians agree to butt-out of the rest of the Ukraine in exchange for both sides agreeing to respect the results of an independent plebiscite in the Crimea.  The plebiscite would be won easily by the ethnic Russian majority, but would at least add a stamp of legitimacy/legality of transferring it to Russian control.  there would then be a basis to normalize relations again.

As we  reported earlier this week, Russia has been massing troops, tanks and other military hardware in Ukraine on northern border of the Crimea Peninsula of Ukraine, and closing crossing points.



On Thursday, Russia’s FSB (successor to the KGB) issued this explanation:


FSB Russia prevented the commission in the Republic of Crimea of terrorist attacks prepared by the Chief Directorate of Intelligence of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine

The Federal Security Service prevented the commission of terrorist attacks in the Republic of Crimea prepared by the General Directorate of the Ministry of Intelligence of Defense of Ukraine, the targets of which have been identified as critical infrastructure and livelihood of the peninsula.

The purpose of the sabotage and terrorist attacks is to destabilize the social and political situation in the region during the preparation and conduct of elections of the federal and regional authorities.



As a result of operational search activities on the night of the 6th of August 7th, 2016, in the region of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea discovered a group of saboteurs. During the arrest of the terrorists, a firefight occurred and a Russian FSB officer died. At the site of clashes, investigators found 20 improvised explosive devices with a total capacity of more than 40 kilograms of TNT, ammunition and special means of initiation, regular and anti-magnetic mines, as well as grenades and special weapons, consisting of armed special units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

We have now had several years of statements by Putin and Russia’s government about Ukraine and Syria that turned out to be total lies, so we can reasonably assume that most of the FSB statement is a total lie. I’m not saying that everything that Ukraine’s government says is truth. All I’m saying is that, after several years of an unending stream of total lies and hundreds of Russian internet trolls paid to lie, we can be certain that anything that comes from Russia’s government is total BS, with no relation to the truth except by accident.

Large quantities of Russian military hardware are being deployed in Crimea, far more than would be justified by a single gunfight, or even a single terrorist attack. Columns of armored personnel carriers, military ambulances, fuel tankers, trucks, signals and engineering vehicles have been video-recorded in the port town of Kerch, which handles ferry arrivals from Russia. They have also been spotted in the Crimean regional capital of Simferopol, and outside a military training range near the southern town of Feodosia. Internet services have been cut in northern Crimea, with no explanation.



Ukraine is denying Russia’s accusations, but in reaction to Russia’s actions, Ukraine’s army is reinforcing units in Kherson, the region just across the Crimean border.

One possible target of a new Russian invasion would be an attack on the port city of Mariupol. As you can see from the above map, Kerch is separated from the Russian mainland by a narrow body of water that links the Sea of Asov with the Black Sea. In 2014, Russia had announced the intention to build a land bridge connecting Kerch with the mainland, but that has never happened, and so people, supplies, and military equipment have to depend on ferries to reach Crimea from Russia.

From Russia’s point of view, the best solution would be a new invasion of Ukraine targeting Mariupol, and then to take control of the entire land border with the Sea of Asov. That would allow Russia to deliver people, supplies and military equipment overland in cars, trucks and buses. From there, Russian forces could continue westward to Odesa and then on to Transnistria, an enclave in eastern Moldova with a heavy Russian population. ( “5-Nov-14 World View — Russian troops approach Ukraine’s border, threaten port city Mariupol”)



It’s always wise to remember that Russian troops are still occupying eastern Ukraine, and Russian separatist leaders in 2014 repeatedly threatened a complete secession of the region from Ukraine, so that Russia can annex the entire region just as Crimea was annexed.

Nobody knows what Russia is planning, and not a word they say can be believed, but there is something going on, and we’ll have to wait and see what it is. Daily Beast and VOA and Guardian (London)


http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2016/08/12/12-aug-16-world-view-fears-grow-new-russian-invasion-ukraine-imminent/




I Don’t think Russia is in Syria to fight ISIS they are there gaining a foothold in the ME protecting Basher Al Assad.  Creating a union  of armies Syria, Russia, Iraq and Iran against Israel.  Guess what? They are noticing.  The news in the last couple days show Russia supplying Iran with Uranium. 

This is why I am wondering when reading through this forum when Russia became credible and Lindsey Graham became hysterical? We should worry about Russia.  We should worry about them inserting themselves into a United States election.  And we should be on alert as to what they are up to.  Instead of pretending they are our newest BFF.

Skim through the Times of Israel news and  you can see what Russia is up to.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/topic/iran-russia-relations/
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 04:00:46 am by Chosen Daughter »
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.