The Good and Bad Of The Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act

[Smokin Joe]

A cat waltzing around downtown Philly carrying a longgun is neither protecting his abode nor seeking to oust tyrants.   If the local jurisdiction wants to regulate such activity, then it should have the right to do so.  It certainly has the Constitutional right;  and I that basis I oppose this mandatory reciprocity bill.     

A cat walking around downtown Philly with a long gun is a far cry from carrying concealed.

That is the issue here, should the Feds pass a law mandating the recognition of concealed carry permits across all state boundaries.

The side points, simply enough stem mainly from the question of by doing so is the Federal Government upholding the Second Amendment, and second does the Federal Government have the authority to impose the RKBA on State and local jurisdictions.

If we are to accept the Constitution as the Supreme Law of the land, and the RKBA as extending to all citizens, no infringement is to be tolerated. The acceptance of that as law is a given.

While I would like, as a practical matter, full faith and credit for what amounts to a license to carry a concealed weapon, the very act determining that that license is valid in all states also sanctifies the idea that I would need such a permit in the first place to engage in a fundamental Right that "...shall not be infringed."

In simple terms, it legitimizes the local/State infringement of the RKBA at the Federal Level, in opposition to, and not in harmony with, the RKBA.

In reality, if the Second Amendment were upheld, there would be no need for nor a system of permits, the Right would exist, prima facie, only lost in the event it was removed for the reasons of punishment for acts which had been adjudicated and for which the individual had been found guilty, in compliance with no loss of "...life, liberty, or property without due process of law."

The proposed law would not uphold the Second Amendment, but codify the infringements imposed by those who require permits by making them acceptable everywhere.

Unfortunately, so would requiring full faith and credit for that license to carry concealed, when Constitutional carry should be the only standard for law-abiding citizens.

[Smokin Joe]

Nope.  The constitutionally-protected right is one's natural right of self-defense.   Guns have other uses, of course,  including hunting and recreational shooting,  but I highly doubt these uses fall under the rubric of constitutional protection.  (I've heard some liberals claim that only sportsmen should have guns.  That's back-assward, of course - guns are protected under the Constitution because they are means by which one may protect one's person and property.)

The primary reason for the second Amendment was to guarantee that the American People could defend themselves against tyranny, from whatever source. In what may seem odd to folks today, one of those warily eyed sources of possible tyranny was a standing army--especially poignant when one considers they had just overthrown what amounted to be military governorships over the several states.
Reading the Federalist,  especially when discussing a standing army, makes it evident that that was a deep concern, but the thought was to keep the army small and the people armed, that even in the absence of martial training, their overwhelming preponderance of armed citizens would be able to resist tyranny.

Self defense is just as obvious in the day and age of hostile frontiers, highwaymen, and miscellaneous brigands as the ability to hunt--not even in question. Duels were conducted to defend honor, and that was acceptable then--but not quibbling over whether a man had the right to keep and bear arms.

[Smokin Joe]

Your gracelessness is palpable.  Damn right I don't want folks waltzing around downtown Philly totin' rifles.   You go right ahead with that hillbilly shit if you wanna,  just don't pass a law forcing my town to put up with it.   

All I'm saying is local communities shouldn't be forced to compromise the safety of their citizens as they see it.  No CC reciprocity.    You want to carry a gun here,  obey the law here.   

How is waltzing around downtown Philly totin' rifles carrying concealed?

Legally carrying concealed weapons in all jurisdictions by those permitted in their home jurisdictions is the topic of the thread.

[Cripplecreek]

How is waltzing around downtown Philly totin' rifles carrying concealed?

Legally carrying concealed weapons in all jurisdictions by those permitted in their home jurisdictions is the topic of the thread.

The ability to carry concealed or openly is one of the reasons I consider Detroit superior to most American cities. Detroit may be a dangerous place but its surprisingly free in many respects.

[Jazzhead]

I just want reciprocity, the full faith and credit for a license I possess in one state to be good in another, one which does not intimately rely on the geology, geography, or laws of that state. For instance, with a ND CCW permit:
I can travel in any of the states in blue, and my permit is considered 'good'.

However, cross the border into Illinois, or go to any of the states in red and I immediately become (by definition) a felon. I didn't check my principles at the border, nor did I become some sort of homicidal maniac just crossing a State line, only the recognition of my status as one who can carry a concealed weapon changed by virtue of the laws of that state.

Drive a car into any of those states, and my driver's license is accepted as valid, why not my CCW?

Thanks for the substantive responses.

You make a good point.   The case I read about was a poor guy who traveled in his car to New York and got hit with a slew of charges for having a gun locked in his glove compartment.   All kosher when he started out on his journey and a felony rap once he crossed the NY border. 

[thackney]

Because I'm not  resident of Pennsylvania, I am not eligible to apply for a license in that state.  I can't get a Penn drivers license for the same reason.  Without reciprocity, or a uniform law, I can't carry there even if I want to.

People who are not residents of Pennsylvania may apply for and receive a Non-Resident License To Carry Firearms in Pennsylvania. The process is exactly the same as it is for residents except that non-residents must possess a similar permit in their home state per the following statute:

18 Pa.C.S. § 6109: Licenses
http://www.pafoa.org/law/carrying-firearms/concealed-carry/non-residents/

[thackney]

I just want reciprocity, the full faith and credit for a license I possess in one state to be good in another, one which does not intimately rely on the geology, geography, or laws of that state. For instance, with a ND CCW permit:
I can travel in any of the states in blue, and my permit is considered 'good'.

However, cross the border into Illinois, or go to any of the states in red and I immediately become (by definition) a felon. I didn't check my principles at the border, nor did I become some sort of homicidal maniac just crossing a State line, only the recognition of my status as one who can carry a concealed weapon changed by virtue of the laws of that state.

Drive a car into any of those states, and my driver's license is accepted as valid, why not my CCW?

...non-residents who have a valid CCW permit from their own state may have a concealed firearm in their car.  By definition of the Act, this would include a loaded handgun in the passenger compartment of their car, but only in their car.  So they can “carry concealed” in Illinois within their vehicle.  When leaving the vehicle, the gun would have to either be left in the car:

- in a container, and
- either the container or the car itself must be locked

or, the gun would have to be unloaded and removed from the car.

http://www.illinoisgunpros.com/illinois-concealed-carry-for-non-residents/

[Just_Victor]

People who are not residents of Pennsylvania may apply for and receive a Non-Resident License To Carry Firearms in Pennsylvania. The process is exactly the same as it is for residents except that non-residents must possess a similar permit in their home state per the following statute:

18 Pa.C.S. § 6109: Licenses
http://www.pafoa.org/law/carrying-firearms/concealed-carry/non-residents/

Interesting they provided for that.  Texas has reciprocity with Penn, so my CHL class didn't cover getting a license in state.

[thackney]

Interesting they provided for that.  Texas has reciprocity with Penn, so my CHL class didn't cover getting a license in state.

Many states provide non-resident permits.  Some allow everything done without visiting the state, such as filling out the work online then taking the oath before a notary.

For example:
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_NonresidentConcealed.shtm

[Smokin Joe]

Many states provide non-resident permits.  Some allow everything done without visiting the state, such as filling out the work online then taking the oath before a notary.

For example:
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_NonresidentConcealed.shtm

This may be a technicality, but that non-resident permit is going to cost you a couple hundred bucks by the time you are done with the fingerprints, passport photos, $100 fee, etc.
The net effect of states digging in your pocket to bear arms is an infringement.

If I have a CCW in my home state, I have already been checked out, FBI background checked, State DCI background checked, fingerprinted, etc. All else is makework redundancy and expense to practice a fundamental Right.

[Cyber Liberty]

This may be a technicality, but that non-resident permit is going to cost you a couple hundred bucks by the time you are done with the fingerprints, passport photos, $100 fee, etc.
The net effect of states digging in your pocket to bear arms is an infringement.

If I have a CCW in my home state, I have already been checked out, FBI background checked, State DCI background checked, fingerprinted, etc. All else is makework redundancy and expense to practice a fundamental Right.

As with a driver's license, you should be good to go in all 50 states and territories (the required training is actually less than with a driver's license, the law part is more).  Stupid little people call us hillbillies for thinking otherwise.  (I saw a lil' feller up there apologize to y'all for calling me a "hillbilly" but he didn't apologize to me.)