Author Topic: Obama creates new national monuments in Utah, Nevada  (Read 1460 times)

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Obama creates new national monuments in Utah, Nevada
« on: December 29, 2016, 12:06:39 am »

Obama creates new national monuments in Utah, Nevada

By Darius Dixon

12/28/16 05:31 PM EST

Updated 12/28/16 06:19 PM EST


President Barack Obama created two new national monuments on Wednesday, setting aside 1.65 million acres in southeastern Utah and southern Nevada, a move sure to anger Republicans who have sought to curb the power the outgoing president has wielded to protect record amounts of sensitive and historic lands and waters.

Obama's aggressive use of the Antiquities Act to create national monuments has drawn scathing criticism from Republicans, who say the White House has abused the law to override local opposition and restrict development and usage of the lands. The new Bears Ears monument in Utah, in particular, has been at the center of those complaints, with local officials and conservative groups decrying pressure from conservationists and tribes on the White House to protect the site.

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http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/obama-national-monuments-utah-nevada-233016
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Obama creates new national monuments in Utah, Nevada
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2016, 12:24:01 am »
Congress in conjunction with the new POTUS needs to overturn this blatant land grab.

Sadly we already know that won't happen.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Obama creates new national monuments in Utah, Nevada
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2016, 01:38:29 am »
Congress in conjunction with the new POTUS needs to overturn this blatant land grab.

Sadly we already know that won't happen.
You know, there is doubtless old stuff in the vicinity of Washington DC. Maybe we should declare Parts of MD, NoVA and DC a National Monument. Run those critters out of the swamp.

In the meantime, people in Nevada and Utah get to pick up the tab for another 1.65 million acres of nonproductive land. I wonder what resources were tied up this time?
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Obama creates new national monuments in Utah, Nevada
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2016, 02:34:45 am »
There is absolutely no reason to justify naming these national monuments other than to restrict the rights of mineral owners, both private and state, to mine useful minerals from these lands.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Obama creates new national monuments in Utah, Nevada
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2016, 05:06:24 am »
There is absolutely no reason to justify naming these national monuments other than to restrict the rights of mineral owners, both private and state, to mine useful minerals from these lands.
That's about what I figure. Quartz vein gold deposits are the sort that can be mined by a small operation, especially when the gold is free milling. Most of the deposits in Nevada (think Newmont) are disseminated and recovered by heap leaching methods.

From the article, Obama has shut down 757,578 square miles of land to development and use for non-recreational purposes. At 640 acres a square mile, 484,849,920 acres that American taxpayers get to shell out to lie fallow.

I do not buy that this is done to preserve cultural sites: the best way to do that is to keep yer mouth shut about them. All the hoopla just draws attention, and those who may go diddy-bopping about such places who have no ties to the land nor appreciation for it might put their mark over the marks of those who left theirs centuries ago. If you want to protect petroglyphs, you don't tell, document them, have the locations written down, but don't advertise.

As for the mines, yes, they are history, but there are a significant number of buildings in any eastern city older than those mines. No one is shutting them down.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Re: Obama creates new national monuments in Utah, Nevada
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2016, 04:47:37 pm »
There is absolutely no reason to justify naming these national monuments other than to restrict the rights of mineral owners, both private and state, to mine useful minerals from these lands.

@IsailedawayfromFR That would be the typical Dem motive to go with this MO.

@Smokin Joe, do you know what resources might be in the areas?  Are you saying that you know that there's gold there, or was that just a general speculation?  I haven't looked into the areas.
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Re: Obama creates new national monuments in Utah, Nevada
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2016, 05:41:25 pm »
There is absolutely no reason to justify naming these national monuments other than to restrict the rights of mineral owners, both private and state, to mine useful minerals from these lands.
Also denies any private property rights as well as making sure the states receive no tax revenues.
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Re: Obama creates new national monuments in Utah, Nevada
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2016, 06:04:35 pm »
Quote
Real estate mogul Donald Trump would not let states take control of federal lands, the Republican presidential candidate said in a recent interview.

"I don't like the idea because I want to keep the lands great, and you don't know what the state is going to do," Trump said during a talk with Field & Stream magazine earlier this week.

"I mean, are they going to sell if they get into a little bit of trouble?" Trump asked. "I don't think it's something that should be sold."

He added: "We have to be great stewards of this land. This is magnificent land. And we have to be great stewards of this land."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-dont-hand-federal-lands-to-states/

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The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Obama creates new national monuments in Utah, Nevada
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2016, 07:23:20 pm »
@IsailedawayfromFR That would be the typical Dem motive to go with this MO.

@Smokin Joe, do you know what resources might be in the areas?  Are you saying that you know that there's gold there, or was that just a general speculation?  I haven't looked into the areas.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Butte,_Nevada

Quote
The Gold Butte Mining District includes the territory south of Gold Butte lying between the Nevada-Arizona state line to the east and the Virgin River (now Lake Mead) to the west. Mining began in the 1880s. The total production from the district has been about $75,000. There has been prospecting and small-scale mining for gold, mica, magnesite, copper and zinc. No significant deposits were found.[3]

Gold Butte is within the proposed Gold Butte National Conservation Area.[4] The BLM's Jumbo Springs Wilderness is south of the Gold Butte townsite.
Yes, there is gold there. The question is (as always) one of how much and whether it can be economically extracted. The gold there occurs in quartz veins, which makes it lode (hydrothermal, free milling) gold. Mine the vein, crush the rock, recover the gold by physical means (density separation). This can be done without using or releasing a lot of 'nasty' chemicals.
The significance of a deposit depends on economics and known reserves. When the geological situation is correct, there may be more reserves than are proven. I cannot attest to the presence or absence of any such untapped mineralization.

From the same source, 
Quote

The Bundy standoff, which pertains in part to the Gold Butte area, was caused in spring 2014 as the result of a 20-year-old land use disagreement between the Bureau of Land Management and Cliven Bundy, a local rancher.

The advance of prohibited lands toward (or even over) the agricultural efforts of someone who has pissed off the US Federal Government is nothing new. Look at whose farm Arlington Cemetary was founded on.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Obama creates new national monuments in Utah, Nevada
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2016, 11:36:12 pm »
Also denies any private property rights as well as making sure the states receive no tax revenues.

Not just state tax revenues on any resources mined from the property.  Also denies the tax revenues from all the ancillary services used to mine the resource, as well as jobs, and ad valorem property tax assessments to the state. Since the state undoubtedly is a mineral interest owner in some of the lands, they are denied royalties too.

And this is not even talking about the loss of federal revenues in royalties, taxes, etc.


we are so indebted as a nation, that it makes a lot of sense to fiscalize some of the federal holdings and return them to the private sector to pay down the debt.  This is exactly the opposite.
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Re: Obama creates new national monuments in Utah, Nevada
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2016, 02:38:27 am »
Good summary,  @IsailedawayfromFR
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