Author Topic: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban  (Read 9371 times)

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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban
« Reply #125 on: December 16, 2016, 10:29:23 pm »
. Most involved in the right for life are on the front lines in the crisis centers helping one woman and one baby at a time.

That's admirable and selfless work.  God bless 'em.  Because being knocked up and alone IS a crisis.   
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 10:30:04 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban
« Reply #126 on: December 16, 2016, 10:45:22 pm »
Well, yeah, IMO that's a brutal and sexist thing to say.  Why do you think women get abortions?   Perhaps they are responsible and practice birth control, but it fails.   But mostly,  the man who couldn't keep his pants zipped tells the woman he wants no part of her or "her problem",  and abandons the woman to the harsh reality of being knocked up and alone.   Women don't get abortions as a form of birth control,  they get abortions because they've been left high and dry with no support from partner and/or family.   

I'm going to repeat this in response to your comment:
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Yeah, that's it, women are too damned stupid to figure out to not get pregnant, so in order to "liberate" them, they have to be able to abort the person they couldn't figure out how to avoid conceiving. Makes perfect sense.

I guess that makes me brutal and sexist.  Oh, well.

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban
« Reply #127 on: December 16, 2016, 10:59:38 pm »
Well, yeah, IMO that's a brutal and sexist thing to say.
Good, I was afraid I was losing my touch. Don't worry I have just as brutal and sexist view of men that can't keep their pants zipped. 

I know this probably sounds righteous. People make mistakes, I get it. I've made my share. We pay the consequences for those. If life has taught me anything it's that the only way to handle a problem is to grab it by the horns and tackle it. You have those moments when you find out who your friends are you do the best you can. But you don't back down and you don't cut and run and you sure as shooting don't take it out on the only innocent party. It's just part of my code: defend the defenseless.

As for the stereotype you might be interested in this:
http://prospect.org/article/demographics-abortion-its-not-what-you-think
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban
« Reply #128 on: December 16, 2016, 11:03:47 pm »
Well, yeah, IMO that's a brutal and sexist thing to say.  Why do you think women get abortions?   Perhaps they are responsible and practice birth control, but it fails.   But mostly,  the man who couldn't keep his pants zipped tells the woman he wants no part of her or "her problem",  and abandons the woman to the harsh reality of being knocked up and alone.   Women don't get abortions as a form of birth control,  they get abortions because they've been left high and dry with no support from partner and/or family.   
There's always adoption that least gives them a fighting chance. Imagine if you get a puppy and then lose your job and have to downsize to an apartment that doesn't take pets. Is it okay to take the dog out to the back forty and put a bullet through its brain?
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

geronl

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Re: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban
« Reply #129 on: December 16, 2016, 11:09:36 pm »
The left's extremism is a reaction to the right's extremism.  And vice versa.  It's a vicious cycle that will continue ad infinitum.   And meanwhile babies will continue to die.   

Warfare kills babies.  The blood's the hands of those who'd rather fight than reconcile.

One side kills babies and one side does not. I know which side has bloody hands.

geronl

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Re: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban
« Reply #130 on: December 16, 2016, 11:10:59 pm »
That's admirable and selfless work.  God bless 'em.  Because being knocked up and alone IS a crisis.   

Those are crisis centers that the left wants to ban

Offline musiclady

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Re: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban
« Reply #131 on: December 16, 2016, 11:45:51 pm »
That's admirable and selfless work.  God bless 'em.  Because being knocked up and alone IS a crisis.   

And the only people really helping them are those Crisis Pregnancy Centers made up of pro-life people who actually care about women.

Leftists and PP just want to kill their babies and scar them for life.

You are sadly, sadly mistaken in that you have been fooled into thinking that the left cares about women.

If you are truly interested in women's freedom, you cannot be neutral about abortion.

It's devastating to women in every single way, @Jazzhead .

If I were to be brutally honest, I might ask you what you have against women that you continue to argue against the lives of babies and the health, dignity and worth of women.....

Why are you arguing the case for harming women??

Why??
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban
« Reply #132 on: December 16, 2016, 11:48:07 pm »
Those are crisis centers that the left wants to ban

Exactly.

They would shut down every single crisis center that actually helps young women, physically, emotionally and in every aspect of their lives.

Abortion is devastating in every regard to women.

It is the biggest lie of the left.... that to be FOR women, you must be for harming them by having them kill their unborn children.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban
« Reply #133 on: December 16, 2016, 11:51:11 pm »
Well, yeah, IMO that's a brutal and sexist thing to say.  Why do you think women get abortions?   Perhaps they are responsible and practice birth control, but it fails.   But mostly,  the man who couldn't keep his pants zipped tells the woman he wants no part of her or "her problem",  and abandons the woman to the harsh reality of being knocked up and alone.   Women don't get abortions as a form of birth control,  they get abortions because they've been left high and dry with no support from partner and/or family.   

The only sexist here is you, @Jazzhead.

Asking women to be responsible and moral is not harmful at all.

Ripping their children from their bodies and allowing them to have emotional and physical scars for the rest of their lives is what's brutal.

Takes men off the hook, though, doesn't it?

Abortion is sexist.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban
« Reply #134 on: December 17, 2016, 02:48:21 am »
Well, yeah, IMO that's a brutal and sexist thing to say.  Why do you think women get abortions?   Perhaps they are responsible and practice birth control, but it fails.   But mostly,  the man who couldn't keep his pants zipped tells the woman he wants no part of her or "her problem",  and abandons the woman to the harsh reality of being knocked up and alone.   Women don't get abortions as a form of birth control,  they get abortions because they've been left high and dry with no support from partner and/or family.   

Yes sometimes men leave women high and dry and usually family is either non-existent or non-supportive; it's a shame really. Yes sometimes birth control fails, but as far as men not being able to keep their pants zipped; well, it takes two to tango. When one has sexual intercourse there always is the chance of pregnancy; sometimes even with birth control in place and the two consenting adults should always be willing to bear the responsibility.
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban
« Reply #135 on: December 17, 2016, 02:53:40 am »
The only sexist here is you, @Jazzhead.

Asking women to be responsible and moral is not harmful at all.

Ripping their children from their bodies and allowing them to have emotional and physical scars for the rest of their lives is what's brutal.

Takes men off the hook, though, doesn't it?

Abortion is sexist.

Best post of this entire thread; so true and perfectly stated!   



Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban
« Reply #136 on: December 17, 2016, 03:01:52 am »
Please point me to the section in the Constitution that grants rights to a fetus vis a vis its mother.   
Even Hillary says the fetus is a person.  http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/3/hillary-clinton-unborn-person-has-no-constitutiona/

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We all know where the abortion right is grounded - in a woman's natural right to privacy and self-determination.

What is a 'natural right'?

And exactly where does the ones on privacy and self-determination come from?

Our rights, whether you believe or not, are given to us by God (read the Declaration of Independence which our Founding Fathers used to write ur Constitution). 
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban
« Reply #137 on: December 17, 2016, 03:05:50 am »


This is the toughest issue in the world.  Anyone who thinks that it is black and white is not being serious.  You cannot ignore the woman's fundamental liberty, just as you cannot ignore the reality that a fetus represents a potential human life.   

Make it easy by believing in a God that gave us clear rules to obey.  Works for me.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline musiclady

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Re: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban
« Reply #138 on: December 17, 2016, 03:58:17 am »
Best post of this entire thread; so true and perfectly stated!   

Thank you, @libertybele .

I get sick of the argument that abortion is good for women and that it has anything to do with anyone's freedom.

Abortion is the worst thing that's happened to women in the history of this country, and defending it on the basis of women's "liberty" is inane.

Even if you take the death of millions of innocent human beings out of the equation (which one, of course, cannot do), abortion is still 100% horrific.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban
« Reply #139 on: December 17, 2016, 04:00:35 am »
Understood. I don't disagree.  But the woman's body is the vessel - for nine long months - for the production of that life.  Why should the state have the power to compel her to carry a child she does not want?   

Yes, abortion is wrong and a terrible thing.  But the solution must be persuasion and support, not compulsion.   

Bad argument.  A child is a child in the womb or out.  It isn't any less human or alive if it is in the womb rather than out.  Once the child is born can a woman murder her child because it is an unwanted burden, inconvenience that she doesn't want to carry for the life of the child?  Of course not.  But it happens.  Women that still couldn't make up their minds abandoning their children in garbage cans.  It happens. You are merely trying to dehumanize a living human being simply because it is inches away from outside the womb.

This is an incredible video.  Life is incredible.  A miracle.  Watch it unfold.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAJNGhZBGnI
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 04:01:29 am by Chosen Daughter »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban
« Reply #140 on: December 17, 2016, 09:54:19 pm »
I appreciate that you think I'm a good person (I think you are too),  but as for "brainwashed", well, all I can say is that I sincerely believe that the last 40 years of warfare between the pro-life and pro-choice "sides" hasn't saved many unborn babies.   That struggle has largely taken place on the battlefield of legal rights, and that's simply no way to get folks to come together in common cause.   
Elsewhere on this forum we have discussed the fundamental Rights, and in the Declaration of Independence, the first listed unalienable right is the Right to Life. Without that right, all other rights are moot. You don't need them, if it is decided it is legal to snuff someone. For now the battle is within the womb, but how long until it shifts to nursing homes and hospitals? With State-run health care, it is always easy to say that someone's treatment is too expensive, or simply not budget for the necessary equipment or personnel.
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And there should be common cause - no one defends abortion,  but when a legal right has existed for generations, a threat to take that right away causes folks to become angry and uncompromising and to lose sight of the larger issue - saving lives.   
whoa, there, that doesn't make sense. The people doing the murdering are going to do what ? Get pissed off and kill people because they are being denied some right to kill people who have a right to live?? "Rights that existed for generations included the ius primae noctis (later known as the droit du seigneur), or perhaps the Right to own slaves, a concept known to Old Testament times and earlier.
Such concepts can be and are dispensed with because their conflict with the most basic Rights (Life, Liberty, Property) became evident as civilization developed.
I don't see the adoption of infanticide by the Courts as a step forward for Civilization.
At any rate, if you want to save lives, start with the ones being prematurely ended.
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I believe that far more babies would be saved if we could all -left and right - agree to move from warfare to reconciliation.   The left's preferred non-coercive solution to abortions -  contraception - can save lives,
The purpose of contraception is not to save lives, but to prevent them. Abortion is not contraception.  The purpose of abortion is to end lives.
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...and the right's preferred non-coercive solution to abortions - moral persuasion and support for adoption - can save lives too.  Just think of the progress that could be made if half of us didn't fear and demonize the other half and its motives.     
It was so-called 'progress' that guaranteed the outcome of every successful 'procedure' would be at least one dead human. You can quibble about definition all you want, but that is the end result. One less kid on the school bus, one less diploma, one less consumer/worker, one less person paying into social security, and one less person raising their own children.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Gov. John Kasich vetoes Heartbeat Bill, signs 20-week abortion ban
« Reply #141 on: December 17, 2016, 09:57:26 pm »
The only sexist here is you, @Jazzhead.

Asking women to be responsible and moral is not harmful at all.

Ripping their children from their bodies and allowing them to have emotional and physical scars for the rest of their lives is what's brutal.

Takes men off the hook, though, doesn't it?

Abortion is sexist.
It 'relieves' them of any choice in the matter.  If the woman decides to kill his child the man has no say. Yep. That's sexist.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis