Author Topic: Texas Man Holds ‘You Belong’ Sign Outside of Mosque: ‘I Needed to Do Something’  (Read 5389 times)

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Offline Sanguine

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What I know is what I believe.  And I believe is that religious bigotry is wrong and un-American and should be denounced.  While I don't disagree that Islamofascists have a "hateful anti-Christian, anti-Jew, anti-women, anti-civilization mentality", the statement I objected to was, based on my plain reading of it within its context,  ostensibly directed at ordinary Americans.   
 

So, that's a "no".

Offline rodamala

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Well, bless his heart.

Offline Jazzhead

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So, that's a "no".

It is madness to convert a war against Islamofascism into a war against a billion Muslims.   Muslims have been some of our greatest allies in combatting terrorism (and, not co-incidentally, far more Muslims have been victimized by Islamofascism than non-Muslims.)

Attributing without a scintilla of evidence a "hateful anti-Christian, anti-Jew, anti-women, anti-civilization mentality" to a religious community of Americans in Irving, Texas is not only ignorant but foolish if we seek to be safe from the terrorists.   Indeed, the terrorists are hoping you won't distinguish between them and peaceable Muslims - they point to such willful ignorance and use it to recruit.     

« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 07:36:30 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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It is madness to convert a war against Islamofascism into a war against a billion Muslims.   Muslims have been some of our greatest allies in combatting terrorism (and, not co-incidentally, far more Muslims have been victimized by Islamofascism than non-Muslims.)

Attributing without a scintilla of evidence a "hateful anti-Christian, anti-Jew, anti-women, anti-civilization mentality" to a religious community of Americans in Irving, Texas is not only ignorant but foolish if we seek to be safe from the terrorists.   Indeed, the terrorists are hoping you won't distinguish between them and peaceable Muslims - they point to such willful ignorance and use it to recruit.     
Have you read a Koran or the verses I posted from it, or do you have selective hearing? A book that says kill everybody who is not a Muslim and Allah will bless you is one big mountain of evidence.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 07:58:34 pm by Idaho_Cowboy »
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Sanguine

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It is madness to convert a war against Islamofascism into a war against a billion Muslims.   Muslims have been some of our greatest allies in combatting terrorism (and, not co-incidentally, far more Muslims have been victimized by Islamofascism than non-Muslims.)

Attributing without a scintilla of evidence a "hateful anti-Christian, anti-Jew, anti-women, anti-civilization mentality" to a religious community of Americans in Irving, Texas is not only ignorant but foolish if we seek to be safe from the terrorists.   Indeed, the terrorists are hoping you won't distinguish between them and peaceable Muslims - they point to such willful ignorance and use it to recruit.     

It's OK, @Jazzhead.  We understand that you have not read the quran and are going solely on your feelings on the subject.  And, by understanding that, we are better able to evaluate the strength of your argument. 

Offline driftdiver

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What I know is what I believe.  And I believe is that religious bigotry is wrong and un-American and should be denounced.  While I don't disagree that Islamofascists have a "hateful anti-Christian, anti-Jew, anti-women, anti-civilization mentality", the statement I objected to was, based on my plain reading of it within its context,  ostensibly directed at ordinary Americans.   
 

@Jazzhead @Idaho_Cowboy

Religious bigotry?    Islam is the definition of bigotry.    Non-muslims aren't even allowed in Mecca.    A Christian cannot legally carry a bible into Saudi Arabia.   The Quran denounces all non-believes and says they should be converted or killed.  That its ok to lie to, beat, murder, rape a non-believer.

The history of Islam is long and quite bloody.   They make war upon the West and have since their prophet started murdering people in the name of his "religion".  Are some muslims 'peaceful', yes about 80% are.    Its the 20% who are not that turn the ground red with blood.  The other 80% are either afraid of them or support Sharia law which is simply adhering to Islamic law as defined by the Quran and their other doctrinal texts.

Perhaps you want to be an apologist for the people seeking to spread their religion of hate and death to America.  To FORCE their will upon us by using our freedoms and laws against us.    I will not.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline driftdiver

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It is madness to convert a war against Islamofascism into a war against a billion Muslims.   Muslims have been some of our greatest allies in combatting terrorism (and, not co-incidentally, far more Muslims have been victimized by Islamofascism than non-Muslims.)

Attributing without a scintilla of evidence a "hateful anti-Christian, anti-Jew, anti-women, anti-civilization mentality" to a religious community of Americans in Irving, Texas is not only ignorant but foolish if we seek to be safe from the terrorists.   Indeed, the terrorists are hoping you won't distinguish between them and peaceable Muslims - they point to such willful ignorance and use it to recruit.     

@Jazzhead

Greatest allies?  Yes they lie to infidels with ease.   Yes they kill more muslims then non-muslims.   Those they (the radicals) generally target are the muslims who are not true believers.  So while Qatar and the Saudi's have allowed us to use their land to fight the radicals, they also give the radicals money and weapons to use against us.

They worship death and aren't concerned if a bunch of muslims die if it furthers their cause of bringing the Caliphate back.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 07:53:19 pm by driftdiver »
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Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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@Jazzhead @Idaho_Cowboy

Religious bigotry?    Islam is the definition of bigotry.    Non-muslims aren't even allowed in Mecca.    A Christian cannot legally carry a bible into Saudi Arabia.   The Quran denounces all non-believes and says they should be converted or killed.  That its ok to lie to, beat, murder, rape a non-believer.

The history of Islam is long and quite bloody.   They make war upon the West and have since their prophet started murdering people in the name of his "religion".  Are some muslims 'peaceful', yes about 80% are.    Its the 20% who are not that turn the ground red with blood.  The other 80% are either afraid of them or support Sharia law which is simply adhering to Islamic law as defined by the Quran and their other doctrinal texts.

Perhaps you want to be an apologist for the people seeking to spread their religion of hate and death to America.  To FORCE their will upon us by using our freedoms and laws against us.    I will not.
Amen. I realize we have a first amendment and these folks in America have a right to their belief's just like the KKK and the skinheads, but all have serious serious issues with their core beliefs. You can't escape that fact.
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Offline truth_seeker

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It is madness to convert a war against Islamofascism into a war against a billion Muslims.   Muslims have been some of our greatest allies in combatting terrorism (and, not co-incidentally, far more Muslims have been victimized by Islamofascism than non-Muslims.)

Attributing without a scintilla of evidence a "hateful anti-Christian, anti-Jew, anti-women, anti-civilization mentality" to a religious community of Americans in Irving, Texas is not only ignorant but foolish if we seek to be safe from the terrorists.   Indeed, the terrorists are hoping you won't distinguish between them and peaceable Muslims - they point to such willful ignorance and use it to recruit.     

I think it is madness to be so naïve as to pursue this conflict as we have been doing for over 15 years, losing lives, limbs and treasury for no gain.

We fought Germany, Italy and Japan and won in under four years.

We intentionally killed enough civilians, to warn them we really, really meant business.

We interned Japanese, Germans and Italians. 

WWII = total lasting victory in under 4 years.

This WOT = No progress in over 15 years.

The major reason we fail to go all out, is naïve western guilt, our relative security, etc.

If all of these countries with all of their good muslims feared us enough, they would be giving the President of the United States weekly reports of how many of their terrorists were jailed, or killed.

But they don't do that, do they?

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline driftdiver

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I think it is madness to be so naïve as to pursue this conflict as we have been doing for over 15 years, losing lives, limbs and treasury for no gain.

We fought Germany, Italy and Japan and won in under four years.

We intentionally killed enough civilians, to warn them we really, really meant business.

We interned Japanese, Germans and Italians. 

WWII = total lasting victory in under 4 years.

This WOT = No progress in over 15 years.

The major reason we fail to go all out, is naïve western guilt, our relative security, etc.

If all of these countries with all of their good muslims feared us enough, they would be giving the President of the United States weekly reports of how many of their terrorists were jailed, or killed.

But they don't do that, do they?

@truth_seeker

One quibble, we have not gone 15 years with no progress.   We made a lot of progress.   Peace was breaking out in both Iraq and Afghanistan.   Then Obama abandoned the peace and gave weapons to our enemies.
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Offline TomSea

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And do they say Muslims don't like dogs? That may not be absolute. Even if one is for diversity, this shows the clash of cultures. One finds a lot of info on this topic; so I am not real familiar with it though I've heard this. I may have read about it first here. It is just a lot of the way they see things and we see things are just the opposite.

Offline driftdiver

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And do they say Muslims don't like dogs? That may not be absolute. Even if one is for diversity, this shows the clash of cultures. One finds a lot of info on this topic; so I am not real familiar with it though I've heard this. I may have read about it first here. It is just a lot of the way they see things and we see things are just the opposite.

@TomSea Dogs are considered unclean by devout Muslims.   They can be used for hunting or as livestock guards but not kept as pets.  Nor can they be kept for security in cities as there is no livestock.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 09:24:09 pm by driftdiver »
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline Jazzhead

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It's OK, @Jazzhead.  We understand that you have not read the quran and are going solely on your feelings on the subject.  And, by understanding that, we are better able to evaluate the strength of your argument.

The Bible, especially the Old Testament, has some nasty, violent stuff in it too.  I see folks as individuals,  and despise arbitrary enmity based on assumptions that all Muslims (or Christians) are fundamentalist arseholes. 

Look, I know your going to focus on sentences and paragraphs in ancient holy books, take those words out of context and proclaim all followers of a religion that's not yours to be antithetical to civilization.  My approach is to differentiate between terrorists who warp a religion and its peaceable adherents.   To each his own - but bigotry ain't going to make you safer; to the contrary, I think you're creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Hatred begets hatred.   

Personally,  I believe in God but have little use for religion.  I pray to my Maker every day but haven't set foot in a church in decades.  Religion is a creation of man, and is the greatest source of conflict and enmity in the history of civilization.  I think God laughs at us for our obsession with tribalism in His name.  Go ahead - wallow in it.  I hope it makes you feel better to think all Muslims bear the dark mark.   I'll go on respecting the individual,  and assume an attitude of goodwill until shown otherwise.     
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Offline GrouchoTex

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Well, bless his heart.

 :amen:

also glad I don't live in Dallas.

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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The Bible, especially the Old Testament, has some nasty, violent stuff in it too.
8detect8
Nowhere, but nowhere does the Bible give anyone carte blanche to kill unbelievers. No where.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Offline Jazzhead

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8detect8
Nowhere, but nowhere does the Bible give anyone carte blanche to kill unbelievers. No where.

That's your view, and I agree with it.  But there are some who claim that's exactly what the Bible says (e.g., 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 or Deuteronomy 17:2-5).   That's how it goes when folks hostile to a religion take passages in holy books out of context to justify enmity.   And that's what folks with an agenda do with selected verses of the Koran.

We must defeat and delegitimize the Islamofascists.   And we can do so while preserving what makes us worthy of God's grace as Americans.   I reject bigotry, utterly and without exception.   
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Offline chae

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Jesus-  do unto others as you would have them do unto you, love your neighbors and even your enemies
Mohammed: Kill all Jews, kill or enslave infidels.

Yeah that sums it up.

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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The Sith are really a religion of peace... :smokin:
We should try to understand what Alderan did to cause such an angry reaction from the Sith.

Sorry not buying it folks.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

HonestJohn

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One of the Golden ages of Jewish philosophy was in Sepharad, the Jewish name for Islamic Spain.

"Friend, lead me through the vineyards, give me wine
And to the very brim shall joy be mine . . .
And should I pre-decease you, friend, select
Some spot where vineyards twist, my grave to sink."

Samuel ibn Nagrela
שמואל הלוי בן יוסף הנגיד‎‎
Sh'muel HaLevi ben Yosef HaNagid

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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That's your view, and I agree with it.  But there are some who claim that's exactly what the Bible says (e.g., 2 Chronicles 15:12-13 or Deuteronomy 17:2-5).     
Only by people, like yourself that are unwilling to read the books and instead take a stab in the dark based on what they feel. God operates with a surgeon's precision in book filled with the call to love you enemies (even in the OT).

Islam calls for the slaughter of all who will not bow the knee to Allah.

There's simply no comparison.
“The way I see it, every time a man gets up in the morning he starts his life over. Sure, the bills are there to pay, and the job is there to do, but you don't have to stay in a pattern. You can always start over, saddle a fresh horse and take another trail.” ― Louis L'Amour

Wingnut

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Yes, that's the point.  He's lecturing/hectoring the wrong group.

Amen Sister!