Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!

[HonestJohn]

Personally..... I'm fine with making burning the American flag an act of treason for US Citizens.....   It's not speech.... it's an action intended to elicit a response...... but then I'm fine with a law that says a couple of marines can beat the cr*$ out of Kapernick and make him stand during the national anthem too..... so I'm out of touch I know.

I find this offensive.  We need a law that says that anyone saying this would be stripped of their US citizenship and put in jail for a year.

After all, such a thing is not free speech', it's an action intended to elicit a response.

(As an addendum, I should be the only person in this country that it allowed to determine what sort of speech is allowable or punishable.  For one, I will replace half of the 'American' language with the word "aladeen'.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3BakHgvfdQ

[HonestJohn]

Burning anything is a form of destruction and should be considered arson.  Those that are protesting religion should be kicked out of the church and likewise those that burn the American flag should be kicked out of the country. We have the right to assemble and protest, but once you start destroying property, then it becomes a crime.  Burning the flag should be no different...it is an attack on our country period.

Flags are something that can be bought.  So burning your own flag is burning your own property.

If you outlaw the burning of personal property, you would also outlaw outdoor barbeques... as the charcoal briquettes are personal property as well.

Of course, you may be indicating that the US flag is something that the ordinary citizen should not be allowed to own, only the federal government.  In which case, that would be the destruction of government property.

[HonestJohn]

Here is my little rant on the issue....

In the US, we don't ascribe any magical properties or even religious properties to our flag. Outside of obvious uses as a government standard, the power of the flag is what the flag represents. Those who died for the flag, didn't literally die for a piece of cloth, they died for the freedoms and liberties that the flag represents. Freedoms which (should) make us a unique nation. Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom from tyranny, putting the rights of the individual above the power of the State. That's what the flag represents.

Some people will abuse those freedoms, but that does not mean those freedoms should be stripped?

Someone abuses the right to own a firearm, an abuse that literally results in the deaths of others. Not just a flag being burned but people dying. Does that mean that we should strip 2nd Amendment rights from everyone because someone abuses the right?

If we ban burning the flag as now a non-protected form of speech, are we not changing the flag's meaning?  We now are putting the physical piece of cloth at a higher level than the rights it represents. We are putting the government's power over the individual.  The rights and freedoms are now less important than the single object.

But let's go back full circle, because the flag isn't just a symbol of our freedom. As I mentioned before, it is also the government standard. A physical representation in an ancient sense, of the ruling authority. Just like how a flag flies over an embassy to let citizens know this is our sovereign territory or a soldier wears it to show what nation he represents. It is an entirely different meaning than just a representation of our freedoms.

Sometimes the government opposes the freedom the flag represents to us. Long before the history of our country, when citizens stood up to an oppressive government, they tore down her flag and often burned it as a symbol.

It isn't just burning the flag, for many, flying the flag upside-down, as a sign of distress over the government, is just as offensive if the context is not known. Should that disrespecting the flag also be banned in the same manner? 

And one more point if I may. What about religious symbols?  For many of faith, religion is a higher priority than government. God comes first in their lives, then family, then country/community. If we hold religious symbols on an even higher level than we do national symbols like the flag, should we ban burning those? Should we ban burning of the Bible? How about the Koran?

If we've gotten to the point where the government threatens free citizens with prison or revocation of citizenship for simply burning a flag, ask yourself, what is the government afraid of with the citizens having that freedom?

[driftdiver]

If there's a silver lining in any of this...it's taht once he's sworn in...his personal phone will vanish into a box for at least 4 years and he won't have direct access to the POTUS or WH twitter accounts.  That's handled by other people.

@txradioguy

You mean like Hillarys Dept of State server.  The one with emails from Obama using a gmail account.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@txradioguy

"That's handled by other people."  That would be the case if the President was normal.  Trump sees himself as King, and no one will be allowed to change him in any way.
"Mr. President, you can't post on twitter and give us that phone as it is not secure."  "I am King and don't you touch my personal phone or my personal pad or my personal computer.  You are dismissed."

Is it only Kings who have control over their own phones, pads, and computers?  I thought we did that....Didn't Obama refuse to give up his Blackberry?

[guitar4jesus]

Here is my little rant on the issue....

In the US, we don't ascribe any magical properties or even religious properties to our flag. Outside of obvious uses as a government standard, the power of the flag is what the flag represents. Those who died for the flag, didn't literally die for a piece of cloth, they died for the freedoms and liberties that the flag represents. Freedoms which (should) make us a unique nation. Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom from tyranny, putting the rights of the individual above the power of the State. That's what the flag represents.

Some people will abuse those freedoms, but that does not mean those freedoms should be stripped?

Someone abuses the right to own a firearm, an abuse that literally results in the deaths of others. Not just a flag being burned but people dying. Does that mean that we should strip 2nd Amendment rights from everyone because someone abuses the right?

If we ban burning the flag as now a non-protected form of speech, are we not changing the flag's meaning?  We now are putting the physical piece of cloth at a higher level than the rights it represents. We are putting the government's power over the individual.  The rights and freedoms are now less important than the single object.

But let's go back full circle, because the flag isn't just a symbol of our freedom. As I mentioned before, it is also the government standard. A physical representation in an ancient sense, of the ruling authority. Just like how a flag flies over an embassy to let citizens know this is our sovereign territory or a soldier wears it to show what nation he represents. It is an entirely different meaning than just a representation of our freedoms.

Sometimes the government opposes the freedom the flag represents to us. Long before the history of our country, when citizens stood up to an oppressive government, they tore down her flag and often burned it as a symbol.

It isn't just burning the flag, for many, flying the flag upside-down, as a sign of distress over the government, is just as offensive if the context is not known. Should that disrespecting the flag also be banned in the same manner? 

And one more point if I may. What about religious symbols?  For many of faith, religion is a higher priority than government. God comes first in their lives, then family, then country/community. If we hold religious symbols on an even higher level than we do national symbols like the flag, should we ban burning those? Should we ban burning of the Bible? How about the Koran?

If we've gotten to the point where the government threatens free citizens with prison or revocation of citizenship for simply burning a flag, ask yourself, what is the government afraid of with the citizens having that freedom?

[ABX]

Is it only Kings who have control over their own phones, pads, and computers?  I thought we did that....Didn't Obama refuse to give up his Blackberry?

Usually it is adults in leadership positions who can be trusted to be wise with their communications and technology. We don't often have to treat adults like tweens and children who are still learning basic social skills.

[massadvj]

Here is my little rant on the issue....

In the US, we don't ascribe any magical properties or even religious properties to our flag. Outside of obvious uses as a government standard, the power of the flag is what the flag represents. Those who died for the flag, didn't literally die for a piece of cloth, they died for the freedoms and liberties that the flag represents. Freedoms which (should) make us a unique nation. Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom from tyranny, putting the rights of the individual above the power of the State. That's what the flag represents.

Some people will abuse those freedoms, but that does not mean those freedoms should be stripped?

Someone abuses the right to own a firearm, an abuse that literally results in the deaths of others. Not just a flag being burned but people dying. Does that mean that we should strip 2nd Amendment rights from everyone because someone abuses the right?

If we ban burning the flag as now a non-protected form of speech, are we not changing the flag's meaning?  We now are putting the physical piece of cloth at a higher level than the rights it represents. We are putting the government's power over the individual.  The rights and freedoms are now less important than the single object.

But let's go back full circle, because the flag isn't just a symbol of our freedom. As I mentioned before, it is also the government standard. A physical representation in an ancient sense, of the ruling authority. Just like how a flag flies over an embassy to let citizens know this is our sovereign territory or a soldier wears it to show what nation he represents. It is an entirely different meaning than just a representation of our freedoms.

Sometimes the government opposes the freedom the flag represents to us. Long before the history of our country, when citizens stood up to an oppressive government, they tore down her flag and often burned it as a symbol.

It isn't just burning the flag, for many, flying the flag upside-down, as a sign of distress over the government, is just as offensive if the context is not known. Should that disrespecting the flag also be banned in the same manner? 

And one more point if I may. What about religious symbols?  For many of faith, religion is a higher priority than government. God comes first in their lives, then family, then country/community. If we hold religious symbols on an even higher level than we do national symbols like the flag, should we ban burning those? Should we ban burning of the Bible? How about the Koran?

If we've gotten to the point where the government threatens free citizens with prison or revocation of citizenship for simply burning a flag, ask yourself, what is the government afraid of with the citizens having that freedom?

I'd like to add my name to the "fan club" you have accumulated with this post.

[Cripplecreek]

Usually it is adults in leadership positions who can be trusted to be wise with their communications and technology. We don't often have to treat adults like tweens and children who are still learning basic social skills.

I'm pretty good at ignoring people but if I were in Trump's position I would hire a filter.

In fact (I want credit for this) I would create some software to be used in unison with social media sites where VIPs could post in real time but the posts wouldn't appear till they were approved by the human filter hired by the VIP. The VIP would post, the post would immediately go to the human filter who would approve, edit, or reject the post.

It would have made a mint off of Anthony Weiner.

[TomSea]

Scalia said similar, Scalia and Trump are both geniuses per the Constitution. Trump may have been letting off steam.

[Sanguine]

Scalia said similar, Scalia and Trump are both geniuses per the Constitution. Trump may have been letting off steam.

@TomSea, this is a very strange comment.   

[guitar4jesus]

@TomSea, this is a very strange comment.

Aye.

[geronl]

gay marriage and abortion are "settled law" but this is what the moron decides to declare

wow.

[geronl]

Scalia said similar, Scalia and Trump are both geniuses per the Constitution. Trump may have been letting off steam.

I don't think Trump has ever read the Constitution. He seems to oppose most of it. He's a moron to boot.

[Silver Pines]

Scalia said similar, Scalia and Trump are both geniuses per the Constitution. Trump may have been letting off steam.

This is a textbook example of what happens when someone becomes too confident of his trolling skills, and veers over the line into obvious parody.

Good trolling is subtle, not comedic.

[Wingnut]

I don't think Trump has ever read the Constitution. He seems to oppose most of it. He's a moron to boot.

His Constitution is every other day.  The man can't even shit regularly.

[Smokin Joe]

On this, I stand with Trump.  The U.S. flag represents our country and its citizens.  I see burning the flag as an attack on this country. I disagree with Scalia that burning the flag is a form of expression; is burning down someone's house a form of expression?  No, then don't burn down my flag, insulting my country or my fellow Americans!  There are many who have died so that we can still fly our flag.  Waving, or flying our flag is a demonstration of patriotism and love of country. I am extremely proud to be an American and I deeply love this country. Desecrating our flag is a demonstration of anti-Americanism and hatred of our country.  You want to burn the U.S. flag, then you give up the right to be a citizen of this country.

I have been reading down this thread, and not one person has mentioned the disposal of a flag that has been wind damaged or just worn out. So, let me do that.

That flag is burned. Respectfully, but burned. Otherwise, I suppose it could just go to the landfill with the dirty diapers and household garbage.

So let's round up the American Legion Posts and Boy Scout Troops who perform this service and ship 'em out? People need to take a deep breath and consider what they say.

I take great umbrage when people desecrate our flag, a flag many of my friends and relatives have served under in our Armed Forces, but part of what that flag stands for is the freedom of expression, including the freedom to disagree with me, with us, with others. Many people near and dear to me fought under that flag for that right, and every oil rig I was ever on flew the American Flag. To me, it is the greatest flag in the world, but taking away the Right to burn it, respectfully or otherwise, would diminish what it stands for. YMMV

[Cripplecreek]

I don't think Trump has ever read the Constitution. He seems to oppose most of it. He's a moron to boot.

A Trump surrogate declares that it isn't speech because it isn't words.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/trump-surrogate-steve-cortes-burning-a-flag-isnt-speech-because-it-isnt-words/

[txradioguy]

Is it only Kings who have control over their own phones, pads, and computers?  I thought we did that....Didn't Obama refuse to give up his Blackberry?

He made a fuss about it but WH Comms won the battle and gave him a Gov issued BB.  Which was recently switched out for an iPhone with the latest in DoD approved and installed Mobile Iron security software. 

[ABX]

Does anyone think the end goal of this is almost a publicity stunt? Trump knows this will provoke protestors to burn the flag. He wants the optics of his opponents. He is Captain America, his enemies are anti-American flag burners.

Maybe he is writing a script.

[Sanguine]

Maybe he's channeling Hillary?

One final thing on popularity of anti-flag-burning laws. Hillary Clinton SPONSORED one in 2005 that featured a one-year prison sentence.

Charles C. Cooke on Twitter

[Emjay]

Flags are something that can be bought.  So burning your own flag is burning your own property.

If you outlaw the burning of personal property, you would also outlaw outdoor barbeques... as the charcoal briquettes are personal property as well.

Of course, you may be indicating that the US flag is something that the ordinary citizen should not be allowed to own, only the federal government.  In which case, that would be the destruction of government property.

That is a really odd argument and has no meaning.  It's a ridiculous convoluted argument.  If I buy a dog and own it, can I abuse the dog?  No.

[Emjay]

I have been reading down this thread, and not one person has mentioned the disposal of a flag that has been wind damaged or just worn out. So, let me do that.

That flag is burned. Respectfully, but burned. Otherwise, I suppose it could just go to the landfill with the dirty diapers and household garbage.

So let's round up the American Legion Posts and Boy Scout Troops who perform this service and ship 'em out? People need to take a deep breath and consider what they say.

I take great umbrage when people desecrate our flag, a flag many of my friends and relatives have served under in our Armed Forces, but part of what that flag stands for is the freedom of expression, including the freedom to disagree with me, with us, with others. Many people near and dear to me fought under that flag for that right, and every oil rig I was ever on flew the American Flag. To me, it is the greatest flag in the world, but taking away the Right to burn it, respectfully or otherwise, would diminish what it stands for. YMMV

ummmm ... NO.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Rick Wilson ‏@TheRickWilson 17 hours ago

Nobody should be allowed to tweet this picture - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!

[DB]

ummmm ... NO.

You don't have a right not to be offended. That is what the 1st amendment is about, protecting unpopular speech. When you cross the bridge that you're willing to put someone in prison for burning a symbol, where does it end? In time it will be burning a picture of dear leader. It doesn't end well. Liberty has costs and this is one of them, putting up with offensive speech.