Author Topic: Breaking:Trump offers Jeff Sessions Attorney General post  (Read 6201 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Breaking:Trump offers Jeff Sessions Attorney General post
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2016, 10:38:09 am »
I'll be blunt.

What I'm noticing is that some of the folks who were NeverTrump - who argued that he was just another liberal and would be no different from Hillary Clinton - are now being very critical of actions they previously who have claimed were far too conservative for Trump.  It is a very obvious moving of goalposts.

I'm not saying that just being better than Hillary is the only standard we should apply for the next four years.  However, in terms of just coming out of the gate and putting together an Administration, these initial nominations/appointments are ones that should be providing at least some degree of reassurance to those who thought we were just getting Hillary 2.0.  To this point, they are all solid conservative choices even if not someone's ideal choice.

Instead, it's just pure negativity.  Jeff Sessions is one of the most conservative members of the Senate, and a decidely more conservative guy than early favorite Chris Christie.

ETA:. At some point, he may well select a head-scratcher, and there's nothing wrong with blasting him when/if he does.  But how about waiting for that to actually happen first?
How about we just measure his progress by the promises he made?

 Leave Hillary out of it. Measuring him by what we think she might have done is merely an exercise in speculation.

The only fair metric we have is Trump's own promises.

We can judge his picks on their own merits for the job, not on the basis of what some one else might have done if they had been appointed by someone who did not win the election.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 10:39:34 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Breaking:Trump offers Jeff Sessions Attorney General post
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2016, 10:47:04 am »
There you go again.  The truth just isn't your forte, is it?
Really.

@TomSea Just what do you hope to accomplish with the relentless attacks on Cruz? The primary General Election is over.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Longmire

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Re: Breaking:Trump offers Jeff Sessions Attorney General post
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2016, 02:42:01 pm »
Really.

@TomSea Just what do you hope to accomplish with the relentless attacks on Cruz? The primary General Election is over.

The same thing you folks hope to with your relentless attacks on Trump.   :nono:

Take the log out of your eye.


Offline catfish1957

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Re: Breaking:Trump offers Jeff Sessions Attorney General post
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2016, 02:47:06 pm »
The same thing you folks hope to with your relentless attacks on Trump.   :nono:

Take the log out of your eye.

Wow.  I thought this was a conservative forum.  Last I looked Cruz was a conservative.......   Trump, not so much.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Breaking:Trump offers Jeff Sessions Attorney General post
« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2016, 03:02:10 pm »
Wow.  I thought this was a conservative forum.  Last I looked Cruz was a conservative.......   Trump, not so much.

Which should write anyone paying attention a book on these people!
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Offline Longmire

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Re: Breaking:Trump offers Jeff Sessions Attorney General post
« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2016, 03:31:11 pm »
Wow.  I thought this was a conservative forum. 

 Lace'em up 8888crybaby

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Breaking:Trump offers Jeff Sessions Attorney General post
« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2016, 04:05:18 pm »
@Maj. Bill Martin

Prior to the 1930's Cruz would not even be a citizen of the USA. Did you get that? Had Cruz been born in the 1800's he would not even be a citizen. Had Cruz been born in 1930 he would not even be a citizen. There is no way in hell the Son of a Cuban born in Canada is a natural born citizen (NBC) of the USA. I don't give a damn what our corrupt anti-American Marxists Courts say. Courts say it is ok to murder unborn children, courts say a man can marry another man, courts say the government can come into my house and search it without a warrant and not even tell me they did that, courts say the government can seize my property with no due process even thou I never committed a crime. Screw the anti-American unjust courts. Ted Cruz is not a Natural Born citizen of the USA and everyone with a functioning brain knows that.

I have yet to see a Consular Report of Foreign Birth for Ted Cruz, without which Ted Cruz is not even a US citizen.

But go ahead an be a good little Marxist and change the definition of NBC so that just about  anyone born anywhere can be president. According to you a if an American woman gets raped by an ISIS fighter in Iraq and has a baby over there that baby is a NBC of the USA and eligible to serve as commander in chief of the US military? Really? Let's see how that works out for the American people. 

There is a reason the founders put in the NBC clause, unfortunately some here are to dense to see it. You would think after the election of our first not NBC president people would learn their lesson.

You've got it bad, don't you?

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Breaking:Trump offers Jeff Sessions Attorney General post
« Reply #57 on: November 19, 2016, 06:39:57 pm »
The same thing you folks hope to with your relentless attacks on Trump.   :nono:

Take the log out of your eye.
Ohhhhh Kay. Cite my "relentless attacks" on Trump--post election, please. Link it.

While the rest of us have tried to come up with a standard by which to evaluate the performance of a candidate we neither supported nor voted for, to be fair about that standard, and to still hold the Office of the President to some fixed standard of behaviour as well, we have had to fend off the relentless attacks and snark of his supporters sycophants vengeful worshipers. I have news for y'all, you won the election. If this is the way you act when you win, it's going to be interesting if you lose next time when the Democrats run someone besides a felonious old hag in ill health. Alienating us further is not the way to win the next one, nor is it the way to gain support for your boy.

We have  a RIGHT to critique his appointments, his actions, and his policy. I didn't vote for Obama, either, and I sure as hell critiqued his. I even criticized the actions of Presidents I voted for. Imagine that. You didn't elect Jesus Christ, even if y'all worship Trump like that. So, I'm not going to cut Trump any slack.

He made a pile of promises during the campaign, and those are the metric by which I will judge his performance. He made those promises to YOU, his fawning supporters, so you shouldn't give him a pass, either, if you have a lick of sense.

An awful lot of us "nevertrumpers" are trying to be fair and give credit where credit is due, but at the same time we are left fighting off the flying feces from the monkey house. Just quit. Back off. Grow up.

Enough of your childish nonsense. How can we move forward when you "supporters" keep dragging us back with a load of crap and spew? If you don't have anything to add, just STFU and let the grownups talk about politics.

Or is it as we suspected, that you are just liberals in drag, trying to push the GOP over the Leftist edge?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Breaking:Trump offers Jeff Sessions Attorney General post
« Reply #58 on: November 19, 2016, 07:53:18 pm »
How about we just measure his progress by the promises he made?

 Leave Hillary out of it. Measuring him by what we think she might have done is merely an exercise in speculation.

The only fair metric we have is Trump's own promises.

Well, it depends what you're trying to determine.  If the question is "were we right to vote for this guy over the alternative", then it is perfectly fair to compare his actions to reasonable projections of what Hillary might have done.  For example, I don't think she's likely to have made any of the three nominations/appointments Trump has made so far.  We'd have been far more likely to have gotten another term of Loretta Lynch than a first term of Jeff Sessions.

But if the question is "does this guy deserve to be supported if he runs again", then I still don't think the proper question is fulfillment of promises, because I didn't support some of his promises, so I hope they aren't fulfilled.  I mean, is it seriously fair to downgrade him because he didn't follow-through on a campaign promise you didn't support anyway?

Truth is, the "reelection" metric will be as variable as are each of our own individual views.  The more you like what he does, the better.  I don't really see how keeping score on "promises kept" alone makes sense unless you supported every single one of those promises.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2016, 07:56:38 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Breaking:Trump offers Jeff Sessions Attorney General post
« Reply #59 on: November 19, 2016, 08:20:18 pm »
@Maj. Bill Martin

Prior to the 1930's Cruz would not even be a citizen of the USA. Did you get that?

You ducked my point.  You said that he would never be President because he's not an NBC. I pointed out that it is not your opinion that will determine that, but rather that of the courts.  Whether your interpretation of the Constitution is correct isn't relevant to whether or not he will be elected.

Quote
I don't give a damn what our corrupt anti-American Marxists Courts say.

Well you shoud, because it will be the courts, not you, that will determine whether or not he appears on the ballot and is legally qualified.

Quote
But go ahead an be a good little Marxist....

What does Marxism have to do with interpretation of the NBC clause?

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Breaking:Trump offers Jeff Sessions Attorney General post
« Reply #60 on: November 20, 2016, 02:01:49 am »
Well, it depends what you're trying to determine.  If the question is "were we right to vote for this guy over the alternative", then it is perfectly fair to compare his actions to reasonable projections of what Hillary might have done.  For example, I don't think she's likely to have made any of the three nominations/appointments Trump has made so far.  We'd have been far more likely to have gotten another term of Loretta Lynch than a first term of Jeff Sessions.

But if the question is "does this guy deserve to be supported if he runs again", then I still don't think the proper question is fulfillment of promises, because I didn't support some of his promises, so I hope they aren't fulfilled.  I mean, is it seriously fair to downgrade him because he didn't follow-through on a campaign promise you didn't support anyway?

Truth is, the "reelection" metric will be as variable as are each of our own individual views.  The more you like what he does, the better.  I don't really see how keeping score on "promises kept" alone makes sense unless you supported every single one of those promises.
Maj. Bill, there are three real and somewhat approaching consistent standards by which he may be measured.

No. 1: That which he does compared to what was expected of Hillary.
Not real consistent, because everyone has their own take on the potential for a horrorshow that is Hillary Clinton. So, depending on your fear of Hillary, trump gunning down schoolchildren on 5th Avenue might be an improvement...

No. 2: The set of Conservative (with a capital 'C') standards across all the hyphenations of Conservative, a set of principles predicated on smaller government, Constitutional compliance, fiscal responsibility, the rule of law, and moral uprightness.

Needless to say, Trump's ardent supporters will cry "Foul!!" and blame all that on being #nevertrump, yadda yadda yadda, and say it is just because we never liked him in the first place. While the latter would be true (the part about not liking him), the obvious objections are that we would in no wise be fair out of some claimed "hatred".  Not only is that summarily unfair, it creates problems when assessing his actions, and even more infighting. If the Democrats get their feces consolidated and come up with a likable candidate with low negatives (among Democrats) who can energize their base (compared to the dismal turnout this past time), getting elected to a second term will be problematical unless the squabbling and backbiting stops.

So, let's just not go there. We'll maintain our principles and standards, they'll still be in play next time, but for now, these are the cards we have been dealt. Attempting to move forward is hard enough without being swarmed with the trollery of the EVERtrump faction over our standards, more, again, ad infinitum. Not only is that expenditure of energy tedious, it's counterproductive, and it won't change what is going on in Washington, good or bad.

I agree there are things Trump promised that I don't want to see become law or policy. That is part of why I could not, in good conscience, support him. (As a preemptive strike, no, I didn't support that felonious b'tch either, and I'm bloody tired of hearing the two-bit Svengalis fail at mind reading, so I thought I'd just get that out.)

No. 3: The only inarguable standard that exists is the set of promises Donald Trump made to his supporters on the campaign trail. Those were his words, those were his promises, those were the statements which convinced all but those who quailed in terror of Hillary to vote for him. Those are the standards he set for himself.

Using those isn't a matter of whether I supported him or not. It isn't a matter of what Hillary might have done given the opportunity. Instead, it is what he said he'd do.

There is your unbiased scorecard, and the only unbiased metric by which his progress may be measured. I'm content to use that to keep score.

Obviously, if he does something unConstitutional, something stupid, or something patently illegal or immoral, I'll weigh in on that, too. That, after all is my Right, as an American Citizen, and I'll damn sure exercise that.  But the real scorecard is written in his own promises, not my expectations, nor a comparison to my expectations of the defeated Democrat.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis