GOP Backing Trump's $1 Trillion Infrastructure Plan — For Now

[txradioguy]

That's fine.  If your position is that the federal government has no business building and maintaining an interstate highway system, then discussing whether more or less should be spent is not even relevant since you believe the amount should be zero.

Psst....that federal money isn't being spent on roads.

[Night Hides Not]

The entire package was sold as money for "shovel ready" jobs.  The only thing that got shoveled was a lot of BS by BHO in regards to what the money was used for...which was primarily a discretionary slush fund for the POTUS.

And now that "stimulus" is baked into the budget every year.  It wasn't a one time thing.  That $800B is now a permanent part of the budget.

If as you claim $50B went to this mythical infrastructure construction...how come we're STILL being told our bridges and roadways are in a sorry state of repair and even MORE money is needed yesterday before we have a major crisis?

And I hate to break it to you...the deficit IS blown wide open...it has been for years.  Exacerbated by 8 years of last second spending bills to keep the government afloat and kick the can down the proverbial road. 

The last budget that was passed and put into law by Congress was the last one GWB submitted for FY 2009.

For those who aren't aware of it, we are nearly two months into the new fiscal year, and appropriations bills have yet to be passed. Current funding runs out on December 9th.

[guitar4jesus]

    SHOVEL READY JOBS!

[txradioguy]

For those who aren't aware of it, we are nearly two months into the new fiscal year, and appropriations bills have yet to be passed. Current funding runs out on December 9th.

Just in time for them to pass another temporary resolution when Congress meets just before Christmas.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The entire package was sold as money for "shovel ready" jobs.

It was posted all over the place what they were spending it on.  To the extent that was their rhetoric, it's the fault of people who didn't pay attention.

And now that "stimulus" is baked into the budget every year.  It wasn't a one time thing.  That $800B is now a permanent part of the budget.

No, it isn't/wasn't.  You're passing misinformation that will get people embarrassed if they try passing it off elsewhere.  If you want to see what it was budgeted for, look here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009

If as you claim $50B went to this mythical infrastructure construction...how come we're STILL being told our bridges and roadways are in a sorry state of repair and even MORE money is needed yesterday before we have a major crisis?

First, I didn't say that $50B was actually spent on those projects.  I'm saying that's all that the bill even claimed would be spent on those projects.  Whether even that paltry sum out of the $800B was actually spent on that, who knows.  Check the link.  And my memory wasn't perfect -- here's what was to be spent on "Transportation", or which highway and bridge construction was only a small part:

Transportation

Total: $48.1 billion,[42] some in the form of Transportation Income Generating Economic Recovery (TIGER) Grants

$27.5 billion for highway and bridge construction projects
$8 billion for intercity passenger rail projects and rail congestion grants, with priority for high-speed rail
$6.9 billion for new equipment for public transportation projects (Federal Transit Administration)
$1.5 billion for national surface transportation discretionary grants
$1.3 billion for Amtrak
$1.1 billion in grants for airport improvements
$750 million for the construction of new public rail transportation systems and other fixed guideway systems.
$750 million for the maintenance of existing public transportation systems
$200 million for FAA upgrades to air traffic control centers and towers, facilities, and equipment
$100 million in grants for improvements to domestic shipyards
$1.1 billion in grants for airport improvements
$750 million for the construction of new public rail transportation systems and other fixed guideway systems.
$750 million for the maintenance of existing public transportation systems
$200 million for FAA upgrades to air traffic control centers and towers, facilities, and equipment
$100 million in grants for improvements to domestic shipyards

I have no idea, yet, what Trump's proposal is going to be.  I'm willing to wait to find out.  Don't understanding why that is so horrifying to so many people.

The last budget that was passed and put into law by Congress was the last one GWB submitted for FY 2009.

Budgets are useful, but ultimately toothless.  It's the actual appropriations and tax legislation that is passed that matters.  Look, Ryan is pretty much a deficit hawk.  Why no wait to see what his fingerprints are on the bill before condemning it as horrible?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Party of small government? 

[txradioguy]

It was posted all over the place what they were spending it on. To the extent that was their rhetoric, it's the fault of people who didn't pay attention.

The last parts of the bill were hand jammed and no one had time to read it before Hoyer and company passed it and sent it on to Reid in the Senate where it was immediately passed as well.

This was AFTER BHO promised unprecedented transparency and promised to put all new bills on the internet for no less than 48 hours for people to read.

Remind me again how that's working out?

Did you have a chance to read it?

No, it isn't/wasn't.  You're passing misinformation that will get people embarrassed if they try passing it off elsewhere.  If you want to see what it was budgeted for, look here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009

When I make a statement like that...unlike some people..I don't pull it out of my ass.  I make my statements rooted in fact.  The only ones that get embarassed are the ones that doubt me.

The Hard Fiscal Facts

Note, however, that federal spending remains at a new plateau of about $3.54 trillion, or some $800 billion more than the last pre-recession year of 2007. One way to think about this is that most of the $830 billion stimulus of 2009 has now become part of the federal budget baseline. The "emergency" spending of the stimulus has now become permanent, as we predicted it would.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323894704578113033115035920

First, I didn't say that $50B was actually spent on those projects.  I'm saying that's all that the bill even claimed would be spent on those projects.  Whether even that paltry sum out of the $800B was actually spent on that, who knows.  Check the link.  And my memory wasn't perfect -- here's what was to be spent on "Transportation", or which highway and bridge construction was only a small part:

Transportation

Total: $48.1 billion,[42] some in the form of Transportation Income Generating Economic Recovery (TIGER) Grants

$27.5 billion for highway and bridge construction projects
$8 billion for intercity passenger rail projects and rail congestion grants, with priority for high-speed rail
$6.9 billion for new equipment for public transportation projects (Federal Transit Administration)
$1.5 billion for national surface transportation discretionary grants
$1.3 billion for Amtrak
$1.1 billion in grants for airport improvements
$750 million for the construction of new public rail transportation systems and other fixed guideway systems.
$750 million for the maintenance of existing public transportation systems
$200 million for FAA upgrades to air traffic control centers and towers, facilities, and equipment
$100 million in grants for improvements to domestic shipyards
$1.1 billion in grants for airport improvements
$750 million for the construction of new public rail transportation systems and other fixed guideway systems.
$750 million for the maintenance of existing public transportation systems
$200 million for FAA upgrades to air traffic control centers and towers, facilities, and equipment
$100 million in grants for improvements to domestic shipyards

Your words...and I quote:

Only about $50B went towards things that actually needed it like roads and bridges.

I also quote accurately when I reply as well. 

You still managed to duck the question of why we need MORE billions wasted in these alleged infrastructure improvements when the bill in 2009 was supposed to fix them because they were in such a sorry state back then.

Because all of the money tossed at failed companies and money pits like Solyndra wasn't enough?

I have no idea, yet, what Trump's proposal is going to be.  I'm willing to wait to find out.  Don't understanding why that is so horrifying to so many people.

What horrifying to people is that Congress is spending like a drunken sailor and they don't care that they're bankrupting the country to do it.

Tossing good money after bad is a decidedly Liberal trait and wrong headed solution to America's problems.  It's never worked and just because someone who kinda sorta has an (R) by their name proposes it doesn't mean it will work any better than when the Dems do it.

THAT is what's so horrifying to Americans forced to bear the brunt of politicians who think they have a never ending credit card.

Budgets are useful, but ultimately toothless.  It's the actual appropriations and tax legislation that is passed that matters.  Look, Ryan is pretty much a deficit hawk.  Why no wait to see what his fingerprints are on the bill before condemning it as horrible?

Really?  I dare you to tell that to anyone you owe money to when your bills are due.

Those bills used to be separate individual pieces of legislation.  Haggled out in committee....not passed as some giant omnibus spending slush fund that no one is able to follow much less figure out if money is being spent properly or not.

If Donny and the Republican Congress Critters aren't going to wait to start talking about this crap in public then we the people don't have to wait to make our own comments on it.

[CSM]

Besides, we have always been at war with Eastasia.

@Hoodat Good reference! 

I'm certainly not opposed to government spending on roads and bridges.  State governments are more than capable of handling such projects.  This is not in the purview of the fed government in any way....well, unless one is a progressive.

[Hoodat]

Current funding runs out on December 9th.

What happened?  Did the printing presses break down?

[Hoodat]

Ugh...

Okay, do you disagree with the proposition that maintenance of roads and bridges is a legitimate function of government?

@Maj. Bill Martin

Not at all.  (See:  Article I, Section 8; Constitution of the United States of America)

But otherwise, just because we waste a crapload of money on other things does not mean that every dollar we spend is wasted. 

The word 'waste' did not come up.  My beef is that we are bypassing the borrowing process by simply issuing new money.  The effect of doing this is no different from a tax increase, except that it is a tax increase that no one voted on.

It is bad enough when you can't live within your means and have to borrow money each and every year to pay your bills.  But it is inexcusable when you borrow yet still can't live within your means, so you print up new money to pay your bills, which essentially makes old money less valuable.

This is the absolute worst of the Obama legacy.  For eight consecutive years, we have printed up money to the tune of $10 trillion in order to keep interest rates low.  And until that is addressed, we cannot afford to add $1 trillion to it regardless of how legitimate we deem the expense to be.

Cut foreign aid.  Take some of the money you spent on those things and fix up some roads and bridges.  Is that really so objectionable?

Eliminate Foreign Aid altogether, and you save $35 billion.  You are still $965 billion short for the Trump stimulus.  But if you want to save some real money, cut EITC.  Cut food stamps.  Cut Medicaid.  And most of all, cut social security.  Fully 30% of all Social security payments go to people below retirement age.  Cut that.  Then we can talk about fixing some bridges that were supposed to have been fixed in 2009.

Again, I don't see the logic in getting outraged before you actually know what is being proposed, and how they plan on paying for it.

Until they issue their proposal on how they are going to pay for the current $800 billion annual deficit, I am not willing to entertain any new spending.