Author Topic: Is Donald Trump a Pragmatist? Trump Comes to the Presidency with No Coherent Ideology  (Read 1387 times)

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Offline EasyAce

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By Ben Shapiro
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/442221/donald-trump-pragmatist-not-conservative

Quote
What will Donald Trump be?

It’s too early to tell. For now, Trump’s a Rorschach test, an ink blot — he has multiple positions on the same issues, advisers with
conflicting worldviews, and no practical experience in government upon which to rely. That means that his supporters will call him
conservative, his detractors will call him leftist, and those trying to honestly characterize his administration have been relegated to
doing play-by-play commentary on the unfolding chaos.

In reality, though, Trump has no thoroughgoing ideology. He is not, as Newt Gingrich says, a “mainstream conservative.” In fact,
Trump has explicitly rejected such an idea; months ago, he explained, “This is the Republican party, it’s not called the Conservative
party.” Trump’s own philosophy, if he can be said to hold one, most closely mirrors that of the European populist far-right: Western
civilization can only be protected by erecting walls and closing borders, and those within the walls and borders can be protected
by a large, intrusive government providing vast social services. Trump rarely speaks of liberty or freedom, and never speaks about
the Constitution unless prodded to do so by others.

The most accurate appraisal of Trump actually came courtesy of President Barack Obama this week: “I also think that he is coming
to this office with fewer set hard-and-fast policy prescriptions than a lot of other presidents might be arriving with. I don’t think he
is ideological. I think ultimately, he’s pragmatic in that way. And that can serve him well.”

This should be troubling for conservatives. Philosophy matters. It’s long been a leftist trope that the president who governs best
simply “does what works.” That sentiment goes back to Woodrow Wilson, who stated in his first inaugural address in 1913 that he
wouldn’t govern based on a set philosophy, but rather based on “the facts as they are.. . . Step by step we shall make [our economic
system] what it should be in the spirit of those who question their own wisdom and seek counsel and knowledge.” Decisions would
be made based on “our time and the need of our people.”

Wilson, of course, was no pragmatist. He was a progressive.

That’s because pragmatism is a progressive philosophy. There is no clear consensus on “what works.” This is why elections matter,
and why political ideology matters. It’s an empty conceit of arrogant politicians that they alone can determine, based on expert reading
of facts, the best solution; they can’t. How we view facts — our worldview — determines our action. There is no dispassionate problem-
solver. There are only people who believe certain things about the world and masquerade as dispassionate problem-solvers.

Those people are almost invariably leftists. They believe that virtually all problems can be solved at the governmental level by a team
of geniuses who can gaze into a crystal ball and determine the proper solution to America’s ills. They don’t need any coherent set of
principles, or any root beliefs about human nature. The answers will appear to them if they simply look at the facts hard enough.

Barack Obama governed under such a theory. Harvard law professor Cass Sunstein, one of Obama’s boosters, cast Obama as a man
who preferred “solutions that can be accepted by people with a wide variety of theoretical inclinations.” Why, then, did Obama have
to ram Obamacare through Congress without a single Republican vote? Because pragmatism isn’t ideology-free — it’s an approach
to government that suggests governmental expertise rules the roost.

Trump appears to be cut from the same cloth. “Donald is a pragmatist,” said Businessman Carl Icahn months ago. “He’s going to do
what’s needed for this economy.” Trump supporter and hedge-fund manager Anthony Scaramucci said something similar at the Wall
Street Journal
: “Mr. Trump would be the greatest pragmatist and deal maker Washington has ever seen.” As Christopher Scalia,
Justice Antonin Scalia’s son, wrote at the Washington Post, “‘Whatever works’ is the unofficial slogan of pragmatists. It also sounds
a lot like Trump, who has promised to fix everything from health care to trade with China by making ‘great deals for this country.’”
Trump’s most ardent followers praise him for freeing himself from ideological constraints. In a piece predicting Trump’s victory, UC–
Berkeley professor George Lakoff explained:

Quote
Trump is a pragmatic conservative, par excellence. And he knows that there are a lot of Republican voters who are like him in their
pragmatism. There is a reason that he likes Planned Parenthood. There are plenty of young, unmarried (or even married) pragmatic
conservatives, who may need what Planned Parenthood has to offer — cheaply and confidentially. Similarly, young or middle-aged
pragmatic conservatives want to maximize their own wealth. They don’t want to be saddled with the financial burden of caring for
their parents. Social Security and Medicare relieve them of most of those responsibilities. That is why Trump wants to keep Social
Security and Medicare.

Ad hoc policymaking is not the mark of a conservative — nor should conservatives expect Trump to mirror conservatism. Most important,
conservatives, while honestly assessing the merits and demerits of President Trump’s policies, should not fall into the trap of trying to
fit them all within the conservative rubric. Trump is largely ideology-free. That means he’ll do some good things and some bad things.
But conservatives should feel under no obligation to promote Trumpism as conservatism.

Ben Shapiro is the editor in chief of the DailyWire.com.


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Does "Pragmatist" mean dumb ass?

Offline EasyAce

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Does "Pragmatist" mean dumb ass?

There have been times when it meant precisely that!


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Does "Pragmatist" mean dumb ass?

Okay, I'll admit you're the smartest, wittiest poster on Al Gore's wonderful Internet.

Hopefully, now you'll give it a rest and take some time to revel in your accomplishment.   :smokin:

Online Free Vulcan

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Quote
rump supporter and hedge-fund manager Anthony Scaramucci said something similar at the Wall
Street Journal: “Mr. Trump would be the greatest pragmatist and deal maker Washington has ever seen.” As Christopher Scalia, Justice Antonin Scalia’s son, wrote at the Washington Post, “‘Whatever works’ is the unofficial slogan of pragmatists. It also sounds a lot like Trump, who has promised to fix everything from health care to trade with China by making ‘great deals for this country.’”

Pretty much nails it.

Buckle up, it's going to be a wild ride.
The Republic is lost.

Offline LMAO

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It isn't so much as someone just having a conservative philosophy but implementing and promoting conservative policies from the conservative philosophy

Conservatives favor a free market. We do because free market policies have shown to lift the standard of living of more people than any government program can.

Conservatives favor free trade. Policies that promote free trade are good for consumers and the overall economy. History has shown what punitive tariffs can do.

Conservatives also favor fiscal responsibility. We can see what happens here and abroad when government policies lead to high deficits and debt.

Conservatives favor more personal responsibility. Getting more people dependent on government, even if it's done for good intentions, have very serious ramifications. We see that in many European Nations and places like Venezuela but also here with the Great Society. Conservative philosophy favors policies that discourage dependency. Reagan said something once to the effect that Liberals measure success by how many people are on government assistance. Conservatives measure success by how many people come off assistance

My conservatism  wasn't the result of waking up one day and saying "I'm a conservative." It was a result of people like Goldwater, Milton Friedman, and a nerdy interest in economics and history

It's very easy to envision Trump becoming another Nixon or Schwarzenegger
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 06:26:27 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline EasyAce

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It's very easy to envision Trump becoming another Nixon or Schwarzenegger

Or a George W. Bush---more big government, less coherence, and more erosion of our diminishing rights.


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline LMAO

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Or a George W. Bush---more big government, less coherence, and more erosion of our diminishing rights.

@EasyAce

Yup


Him, too.

The reality is we are not going to see a Coolidge Conservative in the WH for the next 4 or 8 years
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline EasyAce

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@EasyAce

Yup


Him, too.

The reality is we are not going to see a Coolidge Conservative in the WH for the next 4 or 8 years

If you set aside the conservatism-vs.-liberalism argument, the reality is, unfortunately, that we are not going to see
a properly-construed presidency until or unless two things happen: 1) the American people quit looking at the
presidency as something between an elected monarchy and a saviourship; and, 2) presidential candidates quit
seeing themselves not as prospective chief executives but as temporal saviours.

America needs positive, optimistic leadership to kind of turn this country around, to see a revival of our
national soul
---Mike Schmuckabee, announcing his bid for the 2008 electoral season.

[Theodore Roosevelt] liberally interpreted the constitutional authority of the office [and] nourished the soul
of a great nation.
---John McCan't, also on the 2008 campaign trail, in clear admiration of TR.

You who strive in a spirit of brotherhood for the betterment of our nation, to you who gird yourselves for
this great new fight in the never-ending warfare for the good of humankind, I say in closing . . . We
stand at Armageddon and we battle for the Lord!
---Theodore Roosevelt himself, addressing Progressive
Party delegates after taking that nomination in his bid to block William Howard Taft's second term . . . which
also helped usher in that buttinski Woodrow Wilson.

This is the high enterprise of the new day: To lift everything that concerns our life as a Nation to the light
that shines from the hearthfire of every man's conscience and vision of the right. It is inconceivable that we
should do this as partisans; it is inconceivable we should do it in ignorance of the facts as they are or in blind
haste . . . Men's hearts wait upon us; men's lives hang in the balance; men's hopes call upon us to say what
we will do. Who shall live up to the great trust? Who dares fail to try? I summon all honest men, all patriotic,
all forward-looking men, to my side. God helping me, I will not fail them, if they will but counsel and sustain
me!
---Buttinski Wilson, first inaugural address. (Note: Who was the first President to travel the country
on the stump for his own re-election? Answer: Wilson.)

The best rulers are always those to whom great power is intrusted . . . It is, therefore, a radical defect in
our federal system that it parcels out power and confuses responsibility as it does. The main purpose of the
Convention of 1787 seems to have been to accomplish this grievous mistake.
---Wilson, in his book
Congressional Government.

So long as Americans cling to the notion of the Heroic Presidency---so long as we demand what the office
cannot provide---even the most well-crafted five point plan for restoring the constitutional balance of power
is likely to fail.
---Gene Healy, in The Cult of the Presidency.

Lucky though he was, Bill Clinton never had his shot at greatness . . . [H]e never got the opportunity
George W. Bush was given: the historic chance to lead. Our American spirit, power, and enterprise now stand
ready for orders. Only the president can give them.
---Chris Matthews.

And while we're at it, isn't it way past time to knock it the hell off with the "chosen-by-God" business
applied by enough toward those presidential candidates they believe in, not to mention the presidents in
whom they believe? The thought of God choosing temporal leaders is so dangerously close to suggesting
a president is God's representative on earth---with all the plenipotentiary power it implies, never mind
how plenipotentiarily powerful we've allowed the presidency to become in the first place---that the business
of returning the presidency and indeed the federal government to its constitutionally prescribed boundaries
will become even more difficult-to-impossible than it is already.

(I wonder if those playing the "chosen-by-God" cards ever stop to ponder that the Founding Fathers---who
fashioned the limits of government in the first place---considered themselves to be God-fearing men,
of different sectarian approaches, of course, but God-fearing men regardless, and could be argued to have
been chosen by God to forge limits to temporal power, an argument today's "chosen-by-God"
presidential worshippers are often witless to understand.)


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Online roamer_1

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If you set aside the conservatism-vs.-liberalism argument [...]

That cannot happen. It is the very crux of the situation. Conservatism v. Liberalism IS the fight between independence and coercion. it IS the fight between light and darkness... Between order ad chaos... The incarnate difference between good and evil.

Conservatives will never see a statesman as a god - We have a God.
Liberals will always worship their leaders, trying to fill the void that is rightly God's.

In the end, that is the battle. the whole thing.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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I'd still vote for a pragmatist over a committed leftist 10/10.

And if he's a pragmatist who happens to nominate conservative justices, that's even better.

Offline r9etb

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From the article:

Trump’s own philosophy, if he can be said to hold one, most closely mirrors that of the European populist far-right: Western civilization can only be protected by erecting walls and closing borders, and those within the walls and borders can be protected by a large, intrusive government providing vast social services. Trump rarely speaks of liberty or freedom, and never speaks about the Constitution unless prodded to do so by others.

This is perhaps an accurate description of Trump's campaign promises.  But it is not clear whether Trump actually meant it, or whether he was just appealing, demagogue-fashion, to a certain portion of the electorate to achieve short-term political gains.

Offline EasyAce

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Conservatives will never see a statesman as a god - We have a God.

You must have slept through the George W. Bush administration. Not to mention the gradually increasing
concept that the American people, whatever their individual ideologies, have come to see the president
not as a mere chief executive but as a kind of temporal saviour.

Liberals will always worship their leaders, trying to fill the void that is rightly God's.

In the end, that is the battle. the whole thing.

It isn't only liberals who worship their leaders, however much one opposes liberal ideology.

This book . . .



. . . makes it plain enough that, whatever your ideology, you won't be done with presidents as God, Jr. until you
figure a way to turn the hearts and minds of the American people away from that kind of view of the
presidency and back toward the view of the Founding Fathers---who were, irony of ironies for this discussion's sake
---God-fearing men themselves who did not see the president as His anointed earthly stand-in. And that job
is going to be harder work than any job which had to be done on behalf of electing presidents of any stripe. (Or
stripes, depending on which ones ought to be in a penitentiary and not on Pennsylvania Avenue . . .)



"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Did George Washington come to the Presidency with any other than "make America great"?
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline EasyAce

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Did George Washington come to the Presidency with any other than "make America great"?

He didn't have to. He believed America was great already. ;)

He also came to the presidency determined to serve in the office under the guidelines the Constitution
prescribed, and with none of the near-messianic rhetorical bullsh@t presidents since at least T.R. and
Buttinski Wilson have come. The ironically named Father of His Country had no intention of being
the nation's daddy who could solve every last problem on earth and be his country's saviour.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 10:32:28 pm by EasyAce »


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Online roamer_1

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You must have slept through the George W. Bush administration. Not to mention the gradually increasing
concept that the American people, whatever their individual ideologies, have come to see the president
not as a mere chief executive but as a kind of temporal saviour.

It isn't only liberals who worship their leaders, however much one opposes liberal ideology.

You're making my point - Dubya Bush was no Conservative. Started out proving himself better than his daddy in that regard... but only till his second term was sealed. Then nothing but big gov globalism, just like any of the moderate wing.

No one I know thinks of him in salvific terms, and few think of him as good at governance. There is a good bit of patriotism attached to him due to 9/11 and the ensuing war, and I'll admit to some of that, even myself. But not a soul I know worships him at all, and many, many resent what he did to Conservatism, or rather, in Conservatism's name.

Quote
. . . makes it plain enough that, whatever your ideology, you won't be done with presidents as God, Jr. until you
figure a way to turn the hearts and minds of the American people away from that kind of view of the
presidency and back toward the view of the Founding Fathers---who were, irony of ironies for this discussion's sake
---God-fearing men themselves who did not see the president as His anointed earthly stand-in. And that job
is going to be harder work than any job which had to be done on behalf of electing presidents of any stripe. (Or
stripes, depending on which ones ought to be in a penitentiary and not on Pennsylvania Avenue . . .)

Again, you do naught but make my point. A Conservative is bound to principles, not men. Had Cruz won the day, no doubt there would be heroic tones - But among his most critical detractors, following any break with conservative thought in action, would be the Conservatives themselves. Even as Reagan found to be the case - and no one is 'revered' in Conservatism as much as Reagan.

What you allude to is an aberration of neoconservatism, based in the moderate wing, espousing something reminiscent of the 3rd way... As per my tag: Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.

To those who remain welded to Goldwater and to Reagan, that is, Conservatives, such an aberration is impossible.

Offline EasyAce

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No one I know thinks of [George W. Bush] in salvific terms, and few think of him as good at governance . . .  not a soul I know worships him at all . . .

They don't now. But his supporters by and large did, during the peak of his administration. You couldn't say
even one word in too many places against his assumptions of plenipotentiary presidential power, and his floutings of
the Constitution, without being jumped for blaspheming the Master or battered nigh unto death with one after another
laughable excuse for those floutings. (Bush Derangement Syndrome, anyone? By the way, President Lips II showed
his big government stripes long enough before his second administration.)

It had little enough to do with ideology unless you considered how many of those acolytes tried (laughably enough) to
assert he was thus upholding some sort of conservative agenda, and everything just about to do with continuing
to uphold the presidency as the throne of the saviour rather than the mere chief executive.

That view of the presidency transcends ideological considerations. There were plenty of conservatives, including
those not necessarily of the neoconservative persuasion, who saw the presidency that way during the Bush II years.
There are those conservatives who hold it as they settle or fall for Donaldus Minimus. Liberals held it during His
Excellency's administration, the Clinton administration prior, and surely held it supporting Hilarious Rodent Clinton,
a view not exactly discouraged by the candidate herself. There were even those among his supporters who held
the view during the Reagan years, and God only knows Lyndon Johnson's and Richard Nixon's behaviours stirred
up arguments (and, in Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.'s case, a book) about the Imperial Presidency.

(It's one thing to suggest that whom you think really was behaving like an imperial president depended upon who
gored your ideological ox---one recalls Patrick Buchanan, once a Nixon speechwriter, in Conservative Votes, Liberal
Victories
---claiming Watergate wasn't a product of the imperial presidency and those who said so said it merely for
political reasons---but it's something else again to reject the sad reality that the right is just as prone as the left to
embracing the imperial or the saviourship presidency.)

Since the advent first of Theodore Roosevelt and then Buttinski Wilson, imperial presidents of apparently opposing
philosophies otherwise, more and more Americans of assorted ideological stripes have come to view the presidency
and the president---not to mention the entire government---as a saviourship. Whatever one's ideology, it is and has
long been a dangerous view, and its sharing by assorted presidents and presidential candidates since has led us to
dangerous hours.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 11:32:38 pm by EasyAce »


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Online roamer_1

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You couldn't say even one word in too many places against his assumptions of plenipotentiary presidential power, and his floutings of the Constitution, without being jumped for blaspheming the Master or battered nigh unto death with one after another laughable excuse for those floutings. (Bush Derangement Syndrome, anyone?

I said plenty, all the way along. Of course, I was right on the tipping point, voting him in... I really held my nose...and only voted him in  the second time because of the war, which I consider my biggest political mistake ever.

Quote
By the way, President Lips II showed his big government stripes long enough before his second administration.

I said he tried to be better than his daddy at conservatism, which is setting the bar pretty low.

Quote
but it's something else again to reject the sad reality that the right is just as prone as the left to
embracing the imperial or the saviourship presidency.)

Mere republicans... Not Conservatives. Don't conflate the two...


Offline EasyAce

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I said plenty, all the way along.

I didn't mean you, yourself. ;)

Of course, I was right on the tipping point, voting him in... I really held my nose...and only voted him in  the second time because of the war, which I consider my biggest political mistake ever.

We all live and learn. (I'm curious---what was your first political mistake?)

I said he tried to be better than his daddy at conservatism, which is setting the bar pretty low.

Not so. He was a big government conservative (yes, I know, the phrase rings like "promiscuous celibate") right out of the chute.
(No Child Left Behind, for openers, anyone?)

Mere Republicans... Not conservatives. Don't conflate the two...

There were those claiming themselves conservatives first and Republicans second who got on board with the heinous
concept of Bush as a president-saviour from the beginning. At TOS and elsewhere. My point, however, is not conservatism vs.
liberalism. It's the saviour presidency vs. the properly-construed chief executive presidency. Whether we like it or not, there
have been conservatives and liberals alike guilty of perpetrating, upholding, and defending the saviour presidency,
the cult of the presidency if you will, and their party identifications mattered little to nothing in that context
.

A kind of my-saviour-president-can-beat-up-your-saviour-president kind of thing, if you will, with those so inclined, on all sides
of the ideological spectrum, too long witless to comprehend the chief executive envisioned and fashioned in the Constitution.

Which was and remains a sound enough reason to be skeptical, if not downright contemptuous, toward Donaldus Minimus.
(Hilarious Rodent Clinton, of course, has never shied from the saviour-presidency concept; she'd embraced it as far back as
when she was First Lady.) The president's properly construed job is not to make America "great" again. The proper
job would be to make America America again, without the hiccups, mistakes, and aberrations.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 12:42:24 am by EasyAce »


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.