NatGeo Channel's "Mars"

[Joe Wooten]

Mars will be tough to colonize based on the distance alone. Its going to take many decades of constant reliable resupply from earth. You can't really consider anyplace colonized till the people there can survive and feed themselves without assistance from earth. Mars also won't be colonized by 5, 10, or even 50 people. Its going to take hundreds or even thousands to create a mars based society with genetic diversity and diversity of skills.

None of it means it shouldn't happen.

Personally I wish we had spent the last 50 years colonizing the moon. In some ways its a much tougher nut to crack but necessity is the mother of invention and we would have a much bigger head start. Its a hard vacuum, even more exposed to the radioactive environment in space, a month long day/night cycle. However the proximity makes things like resupply much easier. I believe that if we had colonized the moon 30 years ago we would have already seen at least 1 manned mission to mars by now.

The moon is an easier place to colonize because it is so much closer and most of the techniques and equipment developed to support a lunar colony would be applicable to Mars. It is 2-3 days away when some critical component breaks and needs replacing from Earth, whereas Mars is 3-6 months away at best. If we had a base on the moon for the last 20 years, all the kinks would have been worked out on supporting humans on a hostile world.

[Ghost Bear]

I stand corrected..


The Presidents that was bad for NASA:
1. Nixon
2. Carter
3. Clinton


Good for NASA:
1. Reagan
2. Bush I
3. Bush II


So So for NASA:
1. Obama


I'm not counting Ford since he was a President for a shot time.

NASA did have plans for post-Moon-Landing space exploration, but once that goal was achieved everything became subject to the budgetary whims of the Congress and the President. Check out this link for some of what they were looking at, as early as 1969. An excerpt:

In its deliberations, the Space Task Group considered a number of challenging new mission goals which were judged both technically feasible and achievable within a reasonable time, including establishment of a lunar orbit or surface base, a large 50-l00 man earth-orbiting space base, and manned exploration of the planets. The Space Task Group believes that manned exploration of the planets is the most challenging and most comprehensive of the many long-range goals available to the Nation at this time, with manned exploration of Mars as the next step toward this goal. Manned planetary exploration would be a goal, not an immediate program commitment; it would constitute an understanding that within the context of a balanced space program, we will plan and move forward as a Nation towards the objective of a manned Mars landing before the end of this century. Mars is chosen because it is most earth-like, is in fairly close proximity to the Earth, and has the highest probability of supporting extraterrestrial life of all of the other planets in the solar system.

What are the implications of accepting this long-range goal or option on the character of the space program in the immediate future?

In a technical sense, the selection of manned exploration of the planets as a long-term option for the United States space program would act to focus a wide range of precursor activities and would be reflected in many decisions, large and small, where potential future applicability to long-lived manned planetary systems design will have relevance. In a broader sense such a selection would tend to reinforce and reaffirm the basic commitment to a long-term continued leadership position by the United States in space.

The Space Task Group sees acceptance of the long-term goal of manned planetary exploration as an important part of the future agenda for this Nation in space. The time for decisions an the development of equipment peculiar to manned mission to Mars will depend upon the level of support, in a budget sense, that is committed to the space program.

NASA has outlined plans that would include a manned Mars mission in 1981 with the development decision on a Mars Excursion Module in FY 1974, if the Nation were to accept this commitment. Such a program would result in maximum stimulation of our technology and creation of new capability. There are many precursor activities that will be required before a manned Mars mission is attempted, such as detailed study of biomedical aspects, both physiological and psychological, of flights lasting 500-600 days, unmanned reconnaissance of the planets, creation of highly reliable life support systems, power supplies, and propulsion capability adequate for the rigors of such a voyage and reliable enough to support man. Decision to proceed with a 1981 mission would require early attention to these precursor activities.

While launch of a manned Mars exploration mission appears achievable as early as 1981, it can also be accomplished at any one of the roughly biennial launch opportunities following this date, provided essential precursor activities have been carried out.

Unfortunately, out of what they had outlined only a few unmanned interplanetary missions (the Viking missions to Mars and the Voyager fly-byes of the gas giants) survived the budget cuts.

[Cripplecreek]

@Ghost Bear

Interesting that the space task group was more forward thinking than what we see out of NASA today. A 50 to 100 man base orbiting or on the surface of the moon is impressive. Also interesting is that they note te stimulation of technology would result from our reach into space.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

I read somewhere that the first mission we send to colonize outside the solar system will arrive to (hopefully) find a thriving civilization.  The point being that in the time it takes the first mission to travel there, we will develop newer and much faster methods of travel.

IMO, we could have a colony on the moon in my lifetime, and probably Mars.  But at what cost? 100x what our grandkids could do it for?  10,000x?  Since Congress is involved, any number I come up with is probably low.

Speaking of Congress, I guess it really doesn't matter how much it would cost, as they have no Constitutional justification for any of this.

[Ghost Bear]

@Ghost Bear

Interesting that the space task group was more forward thinking than what we see out of NASA today. A 50 to 100 man base orbiting or on the surface of the moon is impressive. Also interesting is that they note te stimulation of technology would result from our reach into space.

I think the difference is that the Task Group was used to the "get it done whatever the cost" budgets of 1960s NASA, while the current NASA is more used to operating on whatever shoestring budget Congress and the President deem to give them.

[Gefn]

This was practically before my time, but wasn't JFK good for NASA? He said he'd get a man to the moon in a famous speech.

[Ghost Bear]

This was practically before my time, but wasn't JFK good for NASA? He said he'd get a man to the moon in a famous speech.

Yes, the "We choose to go to the Moon" speech, credited with starting the push to get an American onto the Moon. At the time he gave it, the U.S. had only put four men (Shepard, Grissom, Glenn, and Carpenter) into space, and only two of those (Glenn and Carpenter) had actually orbited Earth.

[Cripplecreek]

Yes, the "We choose to go to the Moon" speech, credited with starting the push to get an American onto the Moon. At the time he gave it, the U.S. had only put four men (Shepard, Grissom, Glenn, and Carpenter) into space, and only two of those (Glenn and Carpenter) had actually orbited Earth.

I believe the Gemini program was the first NASA program directed toward putting a man on the moon. My grandfather worked with Jim McDivitt after he left NASA. As a kid I loved going to McDivitt's office because he showed me memorabilia that had been to space. McDivitt flew in both the Gemini and Apollo programs. He flew during Ed White's first American spacewalk and during the first manned test of the lunar landing module.

[Gefn]

I believe the Gemini program was the first NASA program directed toward putting a man on the moon. My grandfather worked with Jim McDivitt after he left NASA. As a kid I loved going to McDivitt's office because he showed me memorabilia that had been to space. McDivitt flew in both the Gemini and Apollo programs. He flew during Ed White's first American spacewalk and during the first manned test of the lunar landing module.

wow . That is so cool.

[Cripplecreek]

wow . That is so cool.

Some audio if the first spacewalk. As you know Wd White was later killed in the launchpad fire.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7mVTFAspPk

There is a memorial to White in Grand Rapids and here in Jackson we have McDivitt avenue. A lot of the early astronauts were connected to this area because so many of them went to the University of Michigan.

[kevindavis007]

I read somewhere that the first mission we send to colonize outside the solar system will arrive to (hopefully) find a thriving civilization.  The point being that in the time it takes the first mission to travel there, we will develop newer and much faster methods of travel.

IMO, we could have a colony on the moon in my lifetime, and probably Mars.  But at what cost? 100x what our grandkids could do it for?  10,000x?  Since Congress is involved, any number I come up with is probably low.

Speaking of Congress, I guess it really doesn't matter how much it would cost, as they have no Constitutional justification for any of this.

Was the Louisiana Purchase Constitutional?? I contend that our founding fathers would support a vibrant space program..

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Was the Louisiana Purchase Constitutional??  I contend that our founding fathers would support a vibrant space program..

Funny thing, I seriously considered including a comment about what I have read about Jefferson's thinking on the LP in my post.  He was on the fence, he knew it was a great opportunity for our nation, but he also had serious doubts about whether it was Constitutional.

I contend that our founding fathers would NOT support a vibrant federally funded space program.  They would not see such efforts as the business of our limited federal government.  But they also gave us Article V.

Now as far as the question "Was the Louisiana Purchase Constitutional??", what difference does that make?  Are you saying that because Congress/POTUS may have taken an un-Constitutional action in the past means that all subsequent un-Constitutional  actions are okay?  Keep in mind that includes things like funding Planned Parenthood.  We either have limited government or we don't.

[geronl]

Was the Louisiana Purchase Constitutional?? I contend that our founding fathers would support a vibrant space program..

We will get one, but it'll be private sector

[Gefn]

Some audio if the first spacewalk. As you know Wd White was later killed in the launchpad fire.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7mVTFAspPk

There is a memorial to White in Grand Rapids and here in Jackson we have McDivitt avenue. A lot of the early astronauts were connected to this area because so many of them went to the University of Michigan.

Was that the one with Gus Grissom? I remember that from childhood. It gave me nightmares for a bit, like Challenger did.

[Cripplecreek]

Was that the one with Gus Grissom? I remember that from childhood. It gave me nightmares for a bit, like Challenger did.

Yeah, Grissom, White, and Chaffee all died on the launch pad during a test run of Apollo 1.

[Gefn]

Yeah, Grissom, White, and Chaffee all died on the launch pad during a test run of Apollo 1.

When I was little I was fascinated by astronauts, like I think a lot of kids are. My mom and I kept a scrapbook of articles we cut out from the NY Times. I remember that article. We both cried when we pasted that one in with good old Elmer's glue.

[Gefn]

I had a dream last night about the dog Russia sent up. I don't know why.

Yes I do. My mom and I were reminiscing about a 2nd grade trip to the UN where they had Sputnik displayed. She couldn't believe I remembered that.

I guess I was thinking of Sputnik and then got thinking of that poor doggy. 

[kevindavis007]

Mars is on tonight!!!



Space Ping!


@Oceander
@Sanguine
@Cripplecreek
@Freya
@EC
@Joe Wooten
@r9etb
@Just_Victor
@montanajoe
@Ghost Bear
@Free Vulcan
@Idaho_Cowboy
@geronl
@Scutter

[Cripplecreek]

Mars is on tonight!!!

Need nuclear power on mars.

Solar is fairly reliable there but the sun is dimmer and you can get months of darkness with a dust storm.

[kevindavis007]

Need nuclear power on mars.

Solar is fairly reliable there but the sun is dimmer and you can get months of darkness with a dust storm.

Nuke power is key..

[r9etb]

Yeah, Grissom, White, and Chaffee all died on the launch pad during a test run of Apollo 1.

When I started working down at JSC, I heard Gene Kranz give his famous "talk," which he gave to all the new engineers.  Out of all the things I remember about it, his discussion of the fire was the one that really stuck with me.  He was still terribly haunted by it -- probably still is. 

[kevindavis007]

When I started working down at JSC, I heard Gene Kranz give his famous "talk," which he gave to all the new engineers.  Out of all the things I remember about it, his discussion of the fire was the one that really stuck with me.  He was still terribly haunted by it -- probably still is.

Here is the thing, yes I like Star Trek and variety of SciFi shows, however, I think they have done a minor disservice to the space program. It made space travel to easy. Space Travel is tough and it will remain tough no matter the type of technology that we have. That is why I like this show. It shows the reality that people will get hurt and quite possible die.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Watched the first episode twice now.   Going to have to go for three before(/if) I watch the second episode.  The infomercial stuff just completely disrupts the flow for me.

Finally got through it, and then binge watched the rest.

Unfortunately, they fast forwarded over what I really wanted to see.

And that last episode's ending.  Come on.  I'll get past it, but seriously?

[Cripplecreek]

@kevindavis

In for the finale.

I think I would include some kind of foolproof airlock that couldn't be opened by a lone nutjob.

[kevindavis007]

@kevindavis

In for the finale.

I think I would include some kind of foolproof airlock that couldn't be opened by a lone nutjob.

I would too.. I think this is more of not what to do on Mars..