Journalist who called for Trump assassination just got some bad news

[DCPatriot]

Like that of that F***ing Liar  Walter Cronkite?   





How about  Walter Duranty?  You know,  the guy who covered up the murders of millions of people for the New York Times? 





We've had problems with left wing liars in the media for a very long time.

Thanks for that, @DiogenesLamp !

[DiogenesLamp]

Like I said, I'm ex media. And having seen it from the inside, you can only defund it without going full Stalin and purging them. People have to stop consuming their product so the solution lies with the people. Unfortunately people value their football and modern reality soaps over their country.

Do you know what is a "positive feedback loop"?     That's what we have here,   and it is not going to unscrew itself without external forces applied.    You are asking for market forces to do it,   but that solution will probably take longer than we actually have.   


If a solution is not found in the near term,   the march toward Venezuela Socialism will soon continue.   As people have said,   Trump is a tourniquet,  not a cure. 


 

Barring that, you actually hold media legally accountable for their actions. If they F' up, then you drag them into court for whatever law they violated or pull their FCC license.

I advise a multifront attack.    Hit them in every manner it is possible to hit them until they are destroyed,  or until they decide they cannot afford to be biased.   

[DiogenesLamp]

Honestly, if there was a magic switch that we had to stop them after balance was achieved, I might be inclined to side with you. But human nature is what it is. 5000 years of 'civilization' to one degree or another has taught us how trustworthy our fellow man is with power unfettered.

But then which of us controls the switch? Would we trust THEM to throw it? Or would they cut a deal GOP style and hold off 'a little while'?

I think the "switch"  naturally inclines to the left.   I think if you replaced every single journalist with a right winged extremist,  it would over time,  shift back to the left.   


See again   "O'Sullivan's law.   

[DCPatriot]

Do you know what is a "positive feedback loop"?     That's what we have here,   and it is not going to unscrew itself without external forces applied.    You are asking for market forces to do it,   but that solution will probably take longer than we actually have.   


If a solution is not found in the near term,   the march toward Venezuela Socialism will soon continue.   As people have said,   Trump is a tourniquet,  not a cure. 


 


I advise a multifront attack.    Hit them in every manner it is possible to hit them until they are destroyed,  or until they decide they cannot afford to be biased.

 

[Norm Lenhart]

Do you know what is a "positive feedback loop"?     That's what we have here,   and it is not going to unscrew itself without external forces applied.    You are asking for market forces to do it,   but that solution will probably take longer than we actually have.   


If a solution is not found in the near term,   the march toward Venezuela Socialism will soon continue.   As people have said,   Trump is a tourniquet,  not a cure. 


 


I advise a multifront attack.    Hit them in every manner it is possible to hit them until they are destroyed,  or until they decide they cannot afford to be biased.

I'm all for hammering them to a wall. But not replacing one propaganda outlet with another. Sue them, pull their liscense, everything legal. Hire PIs and if something fishy turns up, go with it. We don't use the tools we already have.

Look at the GOP. Have they once ever taken the media to task? Do they ever tell them FOAD? The dirty little secret is that all they need do is avoid the media entirely. There is absolutely no law that says MSPMS or any network is entitled or has a right to a seat in the press room. Throw them out. Bring in any outlet that is unbiased and give them the chair. Do press events online. Trump just proved what I got laughed at 4 years ago. No one needs the blessing of legacy media.

There is a shitton of things to do. So all we need do is apply them and let the liberals scream and rant and call us satan. They will anyway.

[DiogenesLamp]

That's because people on the left tend to be single-minded about their issues, and we don't.  It's like a physical law -- political gravity, if you will. 

That's what i'm saying.   To hold a position against gravity,   you must apply a continuous thrust in the opposite direction.    Since "journalism"  skews left,  you have to have the right overrepresented by a substantial amount to just get it to track even.   

The problem is, I'm really not willing to become a single-issue guy -- I'd rather spend time with my family and friends.  I enjoy my day job.  The only real remedy is dispersal of power.  Politics ought to be local.  Local issues engender local coverage.

I agree with the dispersal of power.   Right now,  they have it and we need to take it away from them.   Are you familiar with this concept called "overshoot"? 

[Smokin Joe]

We've had 60 years of left wing Television coverage.   So okay.   Give us 60 years of right wing coverage,  we'll call it even,  then we can go back to balanced.  How's that?   

Yep. Walter Cronkite did more to lose the Vietnam War than Hanoi Jane, with his little announcement after Tet in '68.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn4w-ud-TyE

Thus encouraged, the Communists prevailed.

[DiogenesLamp]

Thanks for that, @DiogenesLamp !

And let us not forget those F***ing Bastards that started a war with Spain! 

[RoosGirl]

That is from what a casual glance at the surface  might appear to be the case,   but I am not certain this is so.    It implies that conservatives have exactly the same sort of flaws as do liberals.   Maybe this is true,   but maybe it isn't.   


To be fair,  arguing with a lot of you on this website makes me believe you are perhaps right about this,   but I still have this nagging sense that maybe you aren't.   


I am reminded of O'Sullivan's first law.  "Any organization or enterprise that is not expressly right wing will become left wing over time."


But are conservatives like the left?   Will we deliberately lie to push our agenda as the left demonstrably do?   Again,  arguing with a lot of people over at TOS and Here convinces me that some of us certainly will in casual debate,   but will we do it if it is our job to be fair?   


Do we have better ethics than do Liberals?   I like to think we do.   I do not know for certain,  but I like to believe this is the case.    If we do,   then it is less likely that we will engage in the same sort of deliberate agenda pushing as that of left-wing journalists.   


But yes,  I am concerned about the propaganda being wholly in the hands  of one ideology,  and I have stated many times that this power needs to be divided.    I'm only suggesting a complete takeover by conservatives as a sort of Joke.   


Again,  my suggestion has been an elected board of governors to regulate the hiring and staffing of the News organizations.    Checks and balances is the only way to balance it.   


I still solicit any better ideas.

Let me tell you a little story that your comments reminded me of and a lesson I learned one day.  Leading up to the 2004 elections I was at a rally that was to include presentation by the Swift Boat group.  I wandered over from work and happened to run in to a work colleague who was on the liberal side, but showed up to hear what there was to hear.  I was standing there talking with him for a few minutes and I don't recall how the conversation came up, but it had started becoming common for people to steal W yard signs and slap Kerry bumper stickers on cars that did not belong to them.  A woman that worked in the same building we did, also a conservative, saw us and joined in the conversation.  As I was adamantly saying that conservatives NEVER did that kind of thing, that they were more respectful of other people's property, etc. the woman's husband, who was a courier in downtown Orlando, came walking up laughing and proceeded to tell us how he had just slapped a W bumper sticker on a car that was double parked and in his way.  The woman was none too please with her husband.  And I basically just face palmed.  Of course the guy I was talking with did the "see I told you so!" dance.

When I hear conservatives make comments about having to "take over" this or that industry I always think back to that story and have an inkling of how it would end up turning out.

[Doug Loss]

You're gonna have to do better than that.   That's just one guy.   How many do they have?  30? 50? 100?   And that's just the talking heads.   How many editors,  programmers,  cameramen,  writers,  janitors,  etc.  in the studio that are left wing Democrat hacks?   


Virtually all of them.

From what I've heard, when you get behind the cameras and outside of the editorial folks (writers, editors, producers, etc.) the staff isn't as completely leftist as you might think.  The cameramen, electricians, lighting techs, etc., are more of a mixed bag.

[Norm Lenhart]

That's what i'm saying.   To hold a position against gravity,   you must apply a continuous thrust in the opposite direction.    Since "journalism"  skews left,  you have to have the right overrepresented by a substantial amount to just get it to track even.   



I agree with the dispersal of power.   Right now,  they have it and we need to take it away from them.   Are you familiar with this concept called "overshoot"? 

I am. From my off-road racing days.

Ever see what happens when a Trophy Truck with 3 FEET of rear wheel travel loses it's shock dampening from heat and the coilovers overshoot the available dampening on rebound?
The truck lands at 70 mph off a 15 foot high flight, the suspension compresses fully preloading about 50-850 lb per in coil springs a couple feet and release all that force suddenly, throwing the rear of the truck ass over tea kettle and causing a $500,000 repair bill not including the driver's hospital or funeral expenses.

You can overshoot way too far and with nothing to dampen the osculation, you are gonna crash hard.

[DiogenesLamp]

I'm all for hammering them to a wall. But not replacing one propaganda outlet with another. Sue them, pull their liscense, everything legal. Hire PIs and if something fishy turns up, go with it. We don't use the tools we already have.

Look at the GOP. Have they once ever taken the media to task? Do they ever tell them FOAD? The dirty little secret is that all they need do is avoid the media entirely.

OMG! I"ve been saying that exact thing since 1992!    But nobody on our side seems to know how to do this sort of thing.  (Till Trump came along.)   

Yes,  if our side would treat them like vermin,   call them liars and dishonest at every opportunity,  refuse to deal with them and deliberately marginalize them,   it would provoke a negative feedback effect which would steer them back toward's fairness.   But for some reason we can't seem to get our side to cooperate in solidarity with *ANY*  sort of strategy,  let alone one that would require this level of will and determination. 

There is absolutely no law that says MSPMS or any network is entitled or has a right to a seat in the press room. Throw them out. Bring in any outlet that is unbiased and give them the chair. Do press events online. Trump just proved what I got laughed at 4 years ago. No one needs the blessing of legacy media.

That is exactly what I just said.   Trump is the first one to come along (Newt tried a little)  to demonstrate to them that there can be retaliation for being non objective in their coverage.    The legacy media cannot operate if they can't get access to what half (at this point more than half)  the government thinks.   Cut off their access until they behave,  and make them understand that deliberate and overt bias is now off the table.   

There is a shitton of things to do. So all we need do is apply them and let the liberals scream and rant and call us satan. They will anyway.

Alternative news networks is a good idea,   but we also need alternative entertainment sources.   Right now Liberals steer the culture with the propaganda they produce disguised as entertainment.   Here is an obvious example.   

[DiogenesLamp]

Yep. Walter Cronkite did more to lose the Vietnam War than Hanoi Jane, with his little announcement after Tet in '68.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn4w-ud-TyE

Thus encouraged, the Communists prevailed.

And how many people died as a result?   How much subsequent damage was caused to the world and to humanity as a result?   

[DiogenesLamp]

Let me tell you a little story that your comments reminded me of and a lesson I learned one day.  Leading up to the 2004 elections I was at a rally that was to include presentation by the Swift Boat group.  I wandered over from work and happened to run in to a work colleague who was on the liberal side, but showed up to hear what there was to hear.  I was standing there talking with him for a few minutes and I don't recall how the conversation came up, but it had started becoming common for people to steal W yard signs and slap Kerry bumper stickers on cars that did not belong to them.  A woman that worked in the same building we did, also a conservative, saw us and joined in the conversation.  As I was adamantly saying that conservatives NEVER did that kind of thing, that they were more respectful of other people's property, etc. the woman's husband, who was a courier in downtown Orlando, came walking up laughing and proceeded to tell us how he had just slapped a W bumper sticker on a car that was double parked and in his way.  The woman was none too please with her husband.  And I basically just face palmed.  Of course the guy I was talking with did the "see I told you so!" dance.

When I hear conservatives make comments about having to "take over" this or that industry I always think back to that story and have an inkling of how it would end up turning out.

Some of us would not do such things.   It is actually a surprise to us that other people on our side will.   

[Norm Lenhart]

OMG! I"ve been saying that exact thing since 1992!    But nobody on our side seems to know how to do this sort of thing.  (Till Trump came along.)   

Yes,  if our side would treat them like vermin,   call them liars and dishonest at every opportunity,  refuse to deal with them and deliberately marginalize them,   it would provoke a negative feedback effect which would steer them back toward's fairness.   But for some reason we can't seem to get our side to cooperate in solidarity with *ANY*  sort of strategy,  let alone one that would require this level of will and determination. 




That is exactly what I just said.   Trump is the first one to come along (Newt tried a little)  to demonstrate to them that there can be retaliation for being non objective in their coverage.    The legacy media cannot operate if they can't get access to what half (at this point more than half)  the government thinks.   Cut off their access until they behave,  and make them understand that deliberate and overt bias is now off the table.   






Alternative news networks is a good idea,   but we also need alternative entertainment sources.   Right now Liberals steer the culture with the propaganda they produce disguised as entertainment.   Here is an obvious example.   

Yes you said that but your way basically purges them and mine leaves them in existence impotent to do what they have in the past and without going full Stalin.

As for entertainment, thats the market. That is 100% 'our' fault for buying what they sell. Until people use the market to change that, we cannot change it. AKA money talks and bullshit walks. That means no NFL, MLB, HBO, ESPN, Walking dead, Game of thrones and X men/Star wars/Disney movies. So whose with me? Show of hands! Anyone???? Just one???? Just me???

Yup. Just me.

[RoosGirl]

Some of us would not do such things.   It is actually a surprise to us that other people on our side will.

Yeah, that's kinda my point.  It's not just reserved for stealing yard signs and slapping on bumper stickers.  It unfortunately applies to every aspect of life.

[DiogenesLamp]

From what I've heard, when you get behind the cameras and outside of the editorial folks (writers, editors, producers, etc.) the staff isn't as completely leftist as you might think.  The cameramen, electricians, lighting techs, etc., are more of a mixed bag.

In truth,   I expect the people that do actual work to be more likely to lean conservative,   but I looked up the voting ratios for the Boroughs of New York back in 2008,   and I discovered that most of New York voted for Barack Obama by 80-88%.   


Now imagine a labor pool from a city that votes for Barack Obama by 88%.    Just how many conservatives do you think you are going to find in there?   

[DiogenesLamp]

I am. From my off-road racing days.

Ever see what happens when a Trophy Truck with 3 FEET of rear wheel travel loses it's shock dampening from heat and the coilovers overshoot the available dampening on rebound?
The truck lands at 70 mph off a 15 foot high flight, the suspension compresses fully preloading about 50-850 lb per in coil springs a couple feet and release all that force suddenly, throwing the rear of the truck ass over tea kettle and causing a $500,000 repair bill not including the driver's hospital or funeral expenses.

You can overshoot way too far and with nothing to dampen the osculation, you are gonna crash hard.

This overshoot concept is pretty much an unavoidable consequence of changes made to any system.    If the media was taken over by conservatives,  it would overshoot for awhile,   and then it would undershoot,  and then it would do a dampened oscillation until it resolved at something closer to a steady state condition.   


In other words,  the long term consequences would probably not be as bad as you fear.   

[Norm Lenhart]

In truth,   I expect the people that do actual work to be more likely to lean conservative,   but I looked up the voting ratios for the Boroughs of New York back in 2008,   and I discovered that most of New York voted for Barack Obama by 80-88%.   


Now imagine a labor pool from a city that votes for Barack Obama by 88%.    Just how many conservatives do you think you are going to find in there?

The last poll I saw had the media at IIRC 98%. The one before, 95%.  In 2010 when I left, our media group had 2 conservatives in editorial, backoffice and maintenance. then I left. Out of over 60 people.

In Arizona.

[Norm Lenhart]

This overshoot concept is pretty much an unavoidable consequence of changes made to any system.    If the media was taken over by conservatives,  it would overshoot for awhile,   and then it would undershoot,  and then it would do a dampened oscillation until it resolved at something closer to a steady state condition.   


In other words,  the long term consequences would probably not be as bad as you fear.

In other words, the people in the truck (conservatism) are severely injured or dead (the movement) and the financial cost is staggering (The credibility as constitutional believing people/philosophy).

[musiclady]

LOL!   Funny, when I was composing that reply to you, I thought the very same thing....should I say, " You know...like back in the days of Walter Winchell"  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Winchell

But then I read it was like this back  to WWI.   

Yeah........... and I was born a teensy bit after the war, so they were only broadcasting in my toddlerhood.

It's been a loooong time since Conservatives got a fair shake in the news.

But then I was thinking about popular entertainment too.   Movie stars used to be patriots.  They used to love their country.   Now they're America haters just like academia and journalists.

I doubt the pendulum will ever swing back far enough to be fair to us....

@DCPatriot

[DiogenesLamp]

Yes you said that but your way basically purges them and mine leaves them in existence impotent to do what they have in the past and without going full Stalin.

As for entertainment, thats the market.

That is the steered market.   The entertainment media keep moving the entertainment to the left,  and the people keep following because there is no opposite entertainment to lure them back to the right.   You can't beat something with nothing. 

That is 100% 'our' fault for buying what they sell.

It's a captive market with nothing but Hobson's choices being offered.   You can't get the programing you might want to buy because they aren't creating it,  or at least not very much of it.   

They have a monopoly,  and they move the market in the direction they want it to go.   Sometimes their efforts to move it exceed the public's will to be moved,   but what was completely  intolerable years ago is now common fare.   

 Until people use the market to change that, we cannot change it. AKA money talks and bullshit walks.

So do monopolies,  which is what they have.   

That means no NFL, MLB, HBO, ESPN, Walking dead, Game of thrones and X men/Star wars/Disney movies. So whose with me? Show of hands! Anyone???? Just one???? Just me???

Yup. Just me.

I don't watch any of that crap either.   

[musiclady]

It wasn't, for the most part.  But it was more fair -- more oriented to extended quotes, for example, rather than the 6-word soundbites that dominate the news today.  And there was a core of honest journalists who could look past their biases some or most of the time.

And -- this is important -- the really good ones came up through the ranks; they didn't go to Journalism school.  And they actually had life experience outside the bubble, so that they knew things about the issues they were reporting on.

There were, of course, tremendous charlatans -- Walter Duranty, for example, who knew about, supported, and willfully lied about the Soviet famine/genocide.

The point you make about coming up through the ranks and knowing about real life is a good one.

Real life makes you more conservative.  Sitting in a classroom and being spoon fed liberalism just makes you brain dead.

And that's the condition of most "journalists" these days.

There used to be a few who could actually think.

No more.

@r9etb

[DiogenesLamp]

The last poll I saw had the media at IIRC 98%. The one before, 95%.  In 2010 when I left, our media group had 2 conservatives in editorial, backoffice and maintenance. then I left. Out of over 60 people.

In Arizona.

A point I try to make but one which I think people seldom grasp is this: 


It is not even possible for the media to be non biased.   They don't even share the same world view as conservatives.    They couldn't be non-biased if they wanted to because they don't know how.   They can't even see our side of the universe. 

[DiogenesLamp]

In other words, the people in the truck (conservatism) are severely injured or dead (the movement) and the financial cost is staggering (The credibility as constitutional believing people/philosophy).

*You*  introduced the truck analogy.   The population inertia would be more akin to a battleship hitting a wave.    It would rock a little bit and then right itself.