Author Topic: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)  (Read 3999 times)

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Online corbe

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Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign

By Erick Erickson  |  October 23, 2016, 09:45pm


In July, Robert Jeffress said he supported Trump in the primaries because “I just didn’t think that Ted Cruz was electable.” He said of Donald Trump, “I believed that he was the only one who was electable and could beat Hillary Clinton.” Texas, Ted Cruz and Robert Jeffress’s home state, is now a toss up state. Does Robert Jeffress have such poor judgment that he thinks Cruz would be doing worse in Texas than Clinton? But that’s not really what I’m getting at.

In the same interview in which Jeffress said this, he said he’d vote for Trump over Jesus.


“But as far as his worldview, Trump’s worldview,” he continued, “you know, I was debating an evangelical professor on NPR and this professor said, ‘Pastor, don’t you want a candidate who embodies the teaching of Jesus and would govern this country according to the principles found in the Sermon on the Mount?’ I said, ‘Heck no.’ I would run from that candidate as far as possible, because the Sermon on the Mount was not given as a governing principle for this nation.

“Nowhere is government told to forgive those who wrong it, nowhere is government told to turn the other cheek. Government is to be a strongman to protect its citizens against evildoers. When I’m looking for somebody who’s going to deal with ISIS and exterminate ISIS, I don’t care about that candidate’s tone or vocabulary, I want the meanest, toughest, son of a you-know-what I can find, and I believe that’s biblical.”

He would reject Jesus, who threw money changers out of the Temple and who is coming back with a sword in hand to mete out justice, for a man who thinks it is okay to grab women by their


<..snip..>

MORE

http://theresurgent.com/robert-jeffress-needs-to-repent-or-resign/
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2016, 02:22:06 am »
Jeffress' congregation is made up of a bunch of suckers who fork over cash whenever he demands it.

First Baptist of Dallas owns five city blocks of prime real estate and drags down over a hundred grand in collections every Sunday.

I've looked and looked for the Scripture passage where Jesus says "Gather up all the cash you can."
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2016, 02:41:39 am »
This guy is a dirtbag. He looks like the type of creep that drives around schools in a rusty panel van full of candy.....


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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2016, 02:45:53 am »
Jeffress' congregation is made up of a bunch of suckers who fork over cash whenever he demands it.

First Baptist of Dallas owns five city blocks of prime real estate and drags down over a hundred grand in collections every Sunday.

I've looked and looked for the Scripture passage where Jesus says "Gather up all the cash you can."

Well, that's easy, when he got to the part about Jesus gathering his sheep, the "good" pastor misread "sheep" for "shekels".

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2016, 03:14:54 am »
“But as far as his worldview, Trump’s worldview,” he continued, “you know, I was debating an evangelical professor on NPR and this professor said, ‘Pastor, don’t you want a candidate who embodies the teaching of Jesus and would govern this country according to the principles found in the Sermon on the Mount?’ I said, ‘Heck no.’ I would run from that candidate as far as possible, because the Sermon on the Mount was not given as a governing principle for this nation.

OMG!!


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« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 03:15:25 am by Hoodat »
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2016, 03:17:32 am »
Fulfilling our Biblical Duty to Choose Godly Officials

By Stephen McDowell


We have the privilege in America to choose those who govern us. As Christians, it is also our duty to do so.

Civil government is a divine institution of God. It exists to protect the life, liberty, and property of citizens, enabling them to more effectively advance the Kingdom of God. Civil leaders are servants of the people and of God, and are to govern under His higher authority. Rulers are to be ministers of God for good. (See Rom. 13:1-7; 1 Pet. 2:13-14; Luke 22:25-26.)

For government to fulfill its divine mission, Christians must be involved in selecting good men and women to office. Ideally they would meet all the qualifications for Godly officials. When Moses told the Israelites to select from among them those who would govern them, he set forth a number of Biblical qualifications. He said: “You shall select out of all the people, able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain” (Ex. 18:21). “Choose wise and discerning and experienced men” (Deut. 1:13). He cited three general qualifications for governing officials: fear of God, Christian character, and Biblical worldview.

1. Fear God

The fear of God is an essential qualification for a godly official. What are such people like? Matthias Burnet explained in an election sermon in 1803 that they are, “men acting under the belief and awe of God as their inspector and judge, to whom they consider themselves accountable for their conduct and whom they fear to offend.”[1]

A man who fears God is not someone who simply professes faith, attends church, or culturally embraces Christianity, but someone who has a reverential fear of the Almighty. “When the righteous rule, the people rejoice” (Prov. 29:2). The righteous have right standing with God; they fear the true and living God.

2. Christian Character

A second qualification is morality. They should be “men truly honest and upright in their principles and views, not actuated and governed by the sordid motives of self interest and aggrandizement in their desire and execution of office, but by a sincere regard to the public good.”[2]

Corrupt and unprincipled rulers (like Josef Stalin, Adolf Hitler, and Mao Tse-tung) have brought great misery to mankind, including loss of liberty and the downfall of nations, while U.S. socialist and progressive leaders of the 20th century have done much to steal the liberty and property of many. The actions of these leaders flowed from a wrong worldview. Many displayed dishonest and immoral behavior.

Chandler Robbins, in an election sermon in 1791, said, “Nothing will so surely, so rapidly bring on the dissolution of society, and the loss of the liberties of a people, as a want of virtue and integrity in their rulers.”[3]

A vital quality for leaders is honesty. Proverbs 29:12 says, “If a ruler pays attention to falsehood [hearkens to lies], all his ministers become wicked.” If they cannot keep personal vows or oaths, we cannot expect them to keep national vows. We have witnessed the negative consequences of such conduct in recent years.

Knowledge or intelligence (as man sees it) without honesty — a good genius with a bad heart — is worse than an ignorant honest man because the evil genius could find more subtle ways to rob the people of their rights. Some have argued support for certain candidates based upon their intelligence, saying: “He’s so smart. We ought to elect him.” Yet, if such a person, no matter how smart, is reasoning from wrong presuppositions, or has bad character, he will not be a good leader.

Humility is a second great quality needed in leaders. Jesus taught that leaders are to be servants (Matt. 20:25-28).

3. Biblical Worldview

Thinking Biblically is of great importance because a leader will act and vote based upon how he thinks (Prov. 23:7). The best leaders will have a Biblical philosophy of government, understanding its purpose and limited nature.

The tendency of fallen man is to assume too much power for himself, often justified for benevolent reasons. Jesus taught we are to render to Caesar (civil government) things under his jurisdiction (which are very limited) and to God the things that are God’s (Matt. 22:15-21). As America has moved towards socialism, we have been rendering to Caesar the things that are God’s. Under all forms of statism, civil government assumes the role of God, the family, the church, and the private sector.

Socialism is the golden calf of modern America and is a great threat to liberty and prosperity. Discerning whether a candidate adheres to a Biblical or socialistic philosophy of government comes down to the question, “Who controls the property and children in the nation?” Whoever controls the property controls the present; whoever controls the children controls the future. God has given this responsibility to the family, not the state.

We must seek to choose leaders who understand the divine, but very limited, role of civil government. Without knowledgeable Christians participating in elections, America will become another Tower of Babel, with man looking to himself for all things.

Godly leaders begin with Godly citizens. Reform begins in our house, but it will eventually be reflected in the state house and the White House. America needs Godly transformation. Those who are transformed need to be eternally vigilant to have this reflected in our civil leaders.

The election of unprincipled men produces misery and tyranny, but Godly rulers bring peace, prosperity, justice, and rejoicing. If we fulfill our duty and place Godly men in office, our future will be bright.

I saw this in the news:

POLL: White Evangelicals Have Warmed To Politicians Who Commit 'Immoral' Acts

http://www.npr.org/2016/10/23/498890836/poll-white-evangelicals-have-warmed-to-politicians-who-commit-immoral-acts?ref=yfp

I thought to myself who is taking these polls?  And more importantly if it is true who is teaching this false doctrine?  I can see that Jeffries is definitely a false prophet leading the church astray.  What I wondered when reading that article was is there a conspiracy to neuter the effectiveness of the Christian Witness?  To confuse the elect into despair and giving up on the hope of Christ?  To make Faith in the Lord meaningless?  That is the direction that people like Jeffries is taking Christians.  Its alarming.  Christians need to sound the alarm on false doctrines.  I left a church that I had been with for years this election cycle for the very same reason.  If we don’t have a true belief in Gods Wisdom.  A Godly reverent Fear that keeps us straight on the moral path then we are lost.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 03:19:23 am by Chosen Daughter »
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline AllThatJazzZ

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2016, 03:38:26 am »
This guy is a dirtbag. He looks like the type of creep that drives around schools in a rusty panel van full of candy.....



Wow! That graphic is real? The banner's not photoshopped? If so, this guy is oily to the max.

I also disagree with the teachings of LDS, but the values they ascribe to align with Christian values. So, he'll throw his support to a creepy, vulgar, disrespectful bully and user of people (women, contractors) who has been for, against, for, against, for, against, for, against whatever conservative tenet presently being discussed?

I have no respect for people who didn't leave that congregation. I'd have cleared out of there the minute he started praising Trump.

Sheesh! Sometimes I feel like I'm living in the Twilight Zone.


A government big enough to give you everything you want
is a government big enough to take away everything you have.


Offline AllThatJazzZ

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2016, 03:40:28 am »
I firmly believe that a Christian pastor has the same right to participate in politics as anyone else in the country.  That doesn't mean I have to respect his opinions.

It's one thing for him to participate. It's quite another for him to tell Christians how they need to vote.


A government big enough to give you everything you want
is a government big enough to take away everything you have.


Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2016, 03:56:39 am »
Wrong, wrong, wrong

I am shocked at Pastor Robert Jeffress’ Comments!
Ron Cantor

I had just finished lunch and was watching the news yesterday—Resurrection Day—when Fox-favorite, Pastor Robert Jeffress shared a few thoughts on the resurrection. To be honest, I was excited to hear his thoughts knowing that so many unbelievers would be watching. Most of it was solid, but having spent a good part of my life seeking to expose how Yeshua was a victim of Identity Theft, I nearly fell out of my chair when I heard this completely unbiblical comment.


Within five weeks of the alleged resurrection of Jesus, you had 10,000 Jews in Jerusalem who suddenly gave up their most cherished beliefs, 1,400 years of their religion to follow a new religion of this rabbi named Jesus.

According to Pastor Jeffress:
1.The Jews just happened to flock to Jerusalem
2.They gave up their beliefs
3.They turned their back on the Old Covenant Scriptures
4.They followed a man who broke from Judaism to start a new religion.

I have a lot of respect for Pastor Jeffress. He has taken some bold stands (Standing w/ Donald Trump is not one of them.) But I was surprised to see his lack of understanding of the Jewish roots of the New Covenant. And if you are wondering why I am so upset about it, just think: Certainly any Jewish person watching him yesterday, would wrongly assume (as I once did) that to believe in Jesus—the Jewish Messiah—you must leave Judaism and join a new religion!

Let’s set the record straight.

Shavuot/Pentecost

1. The Jews were in Jerusalem for Shavuot—which most believers call Pentecost. God chose that day to pour out this Spirit, because he knew there would be thousands of Jewish pilgrims. Some Christians actually believe that this was the first Pentecost, when in fact it has been going on since Moses (Lev. 23). It is the last of the Spring Feasts and commemorates, according to tradition, the giving of the Torah at Mount Sinai.

Fulfilled their Beliefs

2. The Jews that embraced Yeshua did not “give up their beliefs”—far from it! Yeshua fulfilled their beliefs. They had been yearning for Messiah. If we just read Luke 2, we get glimpse through the eyes of Hannah and Simeon, of how Israel longed for her Messiah. John sends messengers to Yeshua in Matthew 11, asking if he really is the Jewish Messiah. Yes, he did not come as many supposed—a conquering king—but they did not need to give up their belief in the God of Israel to believe in the Messiah of Israel.

Hebrew Scriptures are God-Breathed

3. Jeffress claims that these Messianic Jews turned their back on “1,400 years of religion.” What happened 1,400 years before? I can only assume he is referring to the Law of Moses being given in 1312 BCE. What utter nonsense! Paul uses the Old Testament constantly to prove his claims in the New Testament. Some have even said the New Testament is merely a revelatory commentary on the Old Covenant. Without Zechariah and Daniel, you can’t understand Revelation. When Paul says, “All Scripture is God-breathed,” (2 Tim. 3:16) there was no New Testament—he was referring to the Hebrew Scriptures. Nowhere in the New Covenant is there even a hint of the Jewish believers rejecting the Hebrew Scriptures—or Moses.

In Acts 21 we see Paul going to make a sacrifice at the Temple, at the urging of the apostles, to put to rest the very things Jeffress is claiming. Paul was falsely accused of leaving Judaism and Jewish tradition and teaching other Jewish believers to do so.


Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many tens of thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the Torah. They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you… Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses… Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the Torah. (Acts 21:20-24)

Paul refers to himself as a ‘present tense’ Pharisee many years after coming to faith, just two chapters later.

No New Religion

4. Lastly, when did anyone in the New Covenant say they were starting a New Religion? When Peter has his revelation in Matthew 16, he says, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God,” as opposed to, “You are birthing a new religion, foreign to us as Jews.” For nearly the first decade they didn’t even preach to Gentiles—they thought the Gospel was just for Jews! Only when the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles in Cornelius’ house, shocking Peter, did they start receiving Gentiles.

If Yeshua started a new religion what in the world were they doing in Acts 15 at the Jerusalem Council discussing whether or not Gentiles had to convert to Judaism? This would not have even been an issue if Jesus started a new religion.  And, if indeed He started a new religion, that invalidates the entire Old Covenant. Where was God hiding all that time?

Yes, a New Covenant was made—and that according to Jeremiah 31:31 was with Israel primarily—but not a new religion. Islam is a new religion; Mormonism is new religion. The coming of Messiah was a fulfillment of the Jewish prophets.

Changes? Yes.

Now, were there some changes? Absolutely. No longer was there a need for a Temple as Yeshua became the once-for-all-time and all-sin sacrifice. We have the revelation of the One New Man, that people from every nation can enjoy salvation through Yeshua without becoming Jewish. And of course, no longer would there be a hierarchy, but every believer would become part of the priesthood. We see the introduction of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers and of course the Great Commission. But these were not new decrees, but fulfillments of the Hebrew Scriptures.


Yeshua said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” (Matt. 5:17)

Again, if Jewish people stumble, let them stumble over Yeshua the man, not over our clumsy presentation of Him and His message.




Note: We live in a different time from the First Century. A time when, through mass media, someone can reach millions, but not one of the millions can reach that someone. Ideally I could pick of the phone and call Dr. Jeffress, but being a megachurch pastor and a media figure, understandably, he doesn’t have the time to
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Victoria33

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2016, 04:09:04 am »
@corbe

At the very beginning when Cruz started his campaign, Robert Jeffress of the large Dallas Church was a supporter of his because I heard him speak about Cruz (our county line meets up with Dallas on the north of Dallas), then Trump got in and came to Dallas, and Jeffress went whole hog for Trump to max and I thought Trump has given Jeffress money for him to spin around like that and I still believe that.  I can't stand to hear Jeffress speak, he is a hypocrite and leading his church and believers over this country astray because Trump made him the head of his church groups.  It is Jeffress who gets them together for Trump, going to Trump Tower to do it.  I firmly believe he is being paid to do that.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2016, 04:31:10 am »
@corbe

At the very beginning when Cruz started his campaign, Robert Jeffress of the large Dallas Church was a supporter of his because I heard him speak about Cruz (our county line meets up with Dallas on the north of Dallas), then Trump got in and came to Dallas, and Jeffress went whole hog for Trump to max and I thought Trump has given Jeffress money for him to spin around like that and I still believe that.  I can't stand to hear Jeffress speak, he is a hypocrite and leading his church and believers over this country astray because Trump made him the head of his church groups.  It is Jeffress who gets them together for Trump, going to Trump Tower to do it.  I firmly believe he is being paid to do that.

He is also a end times preacher who has said America's collapse is inevitable.  No wonder.  No use in electing Godly leaders if the end is near.

http://americanvision.org/5117/false-prophecy-teachers-are-in-the-news-again/
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2016, 04:36:37 am »
He is not a dirtbag. 

He's garbage. He makes a living scaring little old ladies out of their retirement funds so he can live fat, all under the shield of "God told me too".

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2016, 04:40:05 am »
He's garbage. He makes a living scaring little old ladies out of their retirement funds so he can live fat, all under the shield of "God told me too".

Like Felon Jim Baker who is pushing Trump false prophesies.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2016, 04:50:34 am »
Like Felon Jim Baker who is pushing Trump false prophesies.

Exactly. They wave their bibles in peoples faces and pretend they are getting messages straight from God. Always preying on the weak and less educated. It's disgraceful.

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2016, 04:57:02 am »
He is not a dirtbag.  But neither is he wise when it comes to voting.  I firmly believe that a Christian pastor has the same right to participate in politics as anyone else in the country.  That doesn't mean I have to respect his opinions.

I don't know that much about Jeffress but The First Baptist Church in Dallas has a long, distinguished history of good and excellent pastors.  Maybe it's been going downhill since the original two pastors.
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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2016, 05:21:06 am »
Exactly. They wave their bibles in peoples faces and pretend they are getting messages straight from God. Always preying on the weak and less educated. It's disgraceful.

I don't know why anyone would send money to Jim Baker after his prison sentence.  But I did read that they are promoting a false prophesy about Trump being Gods chosen.  I guess they can relate to his golden toilet.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2016, 05:28:04 am »
I don't know that much about Jeffress but The First Baptist Church in Dallas has a long, distinguished history of good and excellent pastors.  Maybe it's been going downhill since the original two pastors.

Thank you Emjay.  It is important to make it clear that the discussion is about Jeffress not the church.  I don't understand what has happened that Evangelical leaders can stray from Biblical principle but it is happening.  Unfortunately in many churches across the country ministers are willing to set aside Gods Word for empty promises.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 05:29:19 am by Chosen Daughter »
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Emjay

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2016, 06:20:10 am »
Thank you Emjay.  It is important to make it clear that the discussion is about Jeffress not the church.  I don't understand what has happened that Evangelical leaders can stray from Biblical principle but it is happening.  Unfortunately in many churches across the country ministers are willing to set aside Gods Word for empty promises.

Jeffress seems to be far more controversial than previous pastors.  I lost touch with First Baptist, but I knew the two most famous pastors who were at First Baptist for many, many years.

 "Under the leadership of legendary pastors and teachers like George W. Truett and W.A. Criswell, First Baptist Dallas became an anchor in the Christian community, a church known for a firm foundation built on the Bible."

Dr. Criswell personally helped a handicapped and destitute distant relative of mine get into the Eastern Star Home, a wonderful facility where she lived out her days at no cost.  I'm sure he was a good man and Dr. Truett was indeed legendary.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Emjay

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2016, 06:23:21 am »
Wrong, wrong, wrong

I am shocked at Pastor Robert Jeffress’ Comments!
Ron Cantor

I had just finished lunch and was watching the news yesterday—Resurrection Day—when Fox-favorite, Pastor Robert Jeffress shared a few thoughts on the resurrection. To be honest, I was excited to hear his thoughts knowing that so many unbelievers would be watching. Most of it was solid, but having spent a good part of my life seeking to expose how Yeshua was a victim of Identity Theft, I nearly fell out of my chair when I heard this completely unbiblical comment.


Within five weeks of the alleged resurrection of Jesus, you had 10,000 Jews in Jerusalem who suddenly gave up their most cherished beliefs, 1,400 years of their religion to follow a new religion of this rabbi named Jesus.

According to Pastor Jeffress:
1.The Jews just happened to flock to Jerusalem
2.They gave up their beliefs
3.They turned their back on the Old Covenant Scriptures
4.They followed a man who broke from Judaism to start a new religion.

I have a lot of respect for Pastor Jeffress. He has taken some bold stands (Standing w/ Donald Trump is not one of them.) But I was surprised to see his lack of understanding of the Jewish roots of the New Covenant. And if you are wondering why I am so upset about it, just think: Certainly any Jewish person watching him yesterday, would wrongly assume (as I once did) that to believe in Jesus—the Jewish Messiah—you must leave Judaism and join a new religion!

Let’s set the record straight.

Shavuot/Pentecost

1. The Jews were in Jerusalem for Shavuot—which most believers call Pentecost. God chose that day to pour out this Spirit, because he knew there would be thousands of Jewish pilgrims. Some Christians actually believe that this was the first Pentecost, when in fact it has been going on since Moses (Lev. 23). It is the last of the Spring Feasts and commemorates, according to tradition, the giving of the Torah at Mount Sinai.

Fulfilled their Beliefs

2. The Jews that embraced Yeshua did not “give up their beliefs”—far from it! Yeshua fulfilled their beliefs. They had been yearning for Messiah. If we just read Luke 2, we get glimpse through the eyes of Hannah and Simeon, of how Israel longed for her Messiah. John sends messengers to Yeshua in Matthew 11, asking if he really is the Jewish Messiah. Yes, he did not come as many supposed—a conquering king—but they did not need to give up their belief in the God of Israel to believe in the Messiah of Israel.

Hebrew Scriptures are God-Breathed

3. Jeffress claims that these Messianic Jews turned their back on “1,400 years of religion.” What happened 1,400 years before? I can only assume he is referring to the Law of Moses being given in 1312 BCE. What utter nonsense! Paul uses the Old Testament constantly to prove his claims in the New Testament. Some have even said the New Testament is merely a revelatory commentary on the Old Covenant. Without Zechariah and Daniel, you can’t understand Revelation. When Paul says, “All Scripture is God-breathed,” (2 Tim. 3:16) there was no New Testament—he was referring to the Hebrew Scriptures. Nowhere in the New Covenant is there even a hint of the Jewish believers rejecting the Hebrew Scriptures—or Moses.

In Acts 21 we see Paul going to make a sacrifice at the Temple, at the urging of the apostles, to put to rest the very things Jeffress is claiming. Paul was falsely accused of leaving Judaism and Jewish tradition and teaching other Jewish believers to do so.


Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many tens of thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the Torah. They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you… Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses… Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the Torah. (Acts 21:20-24)

Paul refers to himself as a ‘present tense’ Pharisee many years after coming to faith, just two chapters later.

No New Religion

4. Lastly, when did anyone in the New Covenant say they were starting a New Religion? When Peter has his revelation in Matthew 16, he says, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the Living God,” as opposed to, “You are birthing a new religion, foreign to us as Jews.” For nearly the first decade they didn’t even preach to Gentiles—they thought the Gospel was just for Jews! Only when the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles in Cornelius’ house, shocking Peter, did they start receiving Gentiles.

If Yeshua started a new religion what in the world were they doing in Acts 15 at the Jerusalem Council discussing whether or not Gentiles had to convert to Judaism? This would not have even been an issue if Jesus started a new religion.  And, if indeed He started a new religion, that invalidates the entire Old Covenant. Where was God hiding all that time?

Yes, a New Covenant was made—and that according to Jeremiah 31:31 was with Israel primarily—but not a new religion. Islam is a new religion; Mormonism is new religion. The coming of Messiah was a fulfillment of the Jewish prophets.

Changes? Yes.

Now, were there some changes? Absolutely. No longer was there a need for a Temple as Yeshua became the once-for-all-time and all-sin sacrifice. We have the revelation of the One New Man, that people from every nation can enjoy salvation through Yeshua without becoming Jewish. And of course, no longer would there be a hierarchy, but every believer would become part of the priesthood. We see the introduction of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers and of course the Great Commission. But these were not new decrees, but fulfillments of the Hebrew Scriptures.


Yeshua said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” (Matt. 5:17)

Again, if Jewish people stumble, let them stumble over Yeshua the man, not over our clumsy presentation of Him and His message.




Note: We live in a different time from the First Century. A time when, through mass media, someone can reach millions, but not one of the millions can reach that someone. Ideally I could pick of the phone and call Dr. Jeffress, but being a megachurch pastor and a media figure, understandably, he doesn’t have the time to

Thanks for that.  I've gone to Bible Class once a week for many, many years but one forgets sometimes.

My last Bible Classes were at my Episcopal Church and became so liberal that I could hardly speak my mind.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline TomSea

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2016, 09:30:38 am »
If one is going to start criticizing what Baptist Ministers have done, you are going to have a long line.

Hate Trump Media hit piece from the usual suspects.

Offline EC

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2016, 09:52:48 am »
If one is going to start criticizing what Baptist Ministers have done, you are going to have a long line.

I do. A very long line.

Pastors and priests should be held to a higher standard, shouldn't they?

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Offline TomSea

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2016, 10:24:26 am »
Quote
Jeffress: Why What Trump Has Said In The Past Doesn't Disqualify Him

First Baptist Church of Dallas Pastor Robert Jeffress has long been a supporter of Donald Trump's bid for presidency, and he says Trump's aggressive tone and the things he's said in the past have not disqualified him for Christian voters.

In an interview with NPR Sunday, Jeffress said, "There are some who have concerns, but I think most of our members are mature enough to understand that by voting for a candidate, they're not endorsing a particular lifestyle. They're simply voting on the issues."

He added the evangelicals voted for Ronald Reagan, who also had a sketchy past with women, because they were endorsing his policies, not his past lifestyle choices. But Jeffress believes that, aside from his right-leaning policies, Trump has character qualities that do indeed make him a qualified leader, especially in this day and age.

...

But when asked his position on not just what Trump has said in the past but the sexual misconduct being alleged against him, Jeffress replied, "If you decide that what he said is true and that he's actually done those things, then you have to make a choice. If the answer is not Donald Trump because he has verbally or otherwise assaulted women, do you really want to put a woman into the White House who supports the greatest assault on women of all? And that is murdering them in the womb before they have a chance to be born."


http://www.faithfamilyamerica.com/jeffress_why_what_trump_has_said_in_the_past_doesn_t_disqualify_him

Offline TomSea

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2016, 10:25:45 am »
I think Jeffress is spot on; we do not know what is in the heart of a man to judge one's faith, but we can see actions, and as above, Jeffress pointing out the right to life, a lot of the Never Trumpers like Glenn Beck all of a sudden forget issues such as this as well. I don't think that's very Christian.

Offline Mod1

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Re: Robert Jeffress Needs to Repent or Resign (Texas Baptist Minister)
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2016, 10:36:10 am »
Merging multiple Jeffress-related threads.