LIVE THREAD>>> Second Presidental Debate..9pm est

[Norm Lenhart]

It just makes me shake my head that both major political parties in this Country are engaged in this race to see who is the most amoral and perverted. Always thought the Dims were way ahead but today I really don't know as so many on the right claim to be Conservative but support one of the two most amoral and disgusting persons ever to run for President.

I sincerely hope there are enough Conservatives out there who will refuse to vote for either of these moral reprobates and will send a clear message that Conservatives will only vote for Conservatives..

There wouldn't be two amoral parties if an amoral people didn't hand them power and authority.

[Norm Lenhart]

Trump is lying.  He had harsh words for Scalia until his team of fixers told him what to say.  Trump agreed with Hillary last time about gun control.  No amount of stuffing the courts with conservatives is going to make the liberal oligarchy go away....or change the hideous rulings they have already made.   That is IF Trump can be trusted on the issue, and HE CANNOT BE TRUSTED ON ANY ISSUE!  Trump was angry, incoherent most of the time, unrepentant and vindictive.  If you watched only the last part, you didn't see the debate.

Levin has lost my respect.  I'm done with him.  He's a sellout for a pervert because the pervert wears the R jersey.

I tried telling people he'd sell out as he does every election, but no. as usual I got called everything but a white man.

Doesn't make a bit of difference how often people claim to be conservative if they help elect liberals.

[Norm Lenhart]

Yes you did tell us.  I was a hold out.  Just another disappointment.   

Predicting the future is easy when it come to pols/media. Just look at their history and believe what you see. You will almost never be steered wrong. They never change their stripes.

[libertybele]

Trump is lying.  He had harsh words for Scalia until his team of fixers told him what to say.  Trump agreed with Hillary last time about gun control.  No amount of stuffing the courts with conservatives is going to make the liberal oligarchy go away....or change the hideous rulings they have already made.   That is IF Trump can be trusted on the issue, and HE CANNOT BE TRUSTED ON ANY ISSUE!  Trump was angry, incoherent most of the time, unrepentant and vindictive.  If you watched only the last part, you didn't see the debate.

Levin has lost my respect.  I'm done with him.  He's a sellout for a pervert because the pervert wears the R jersey.

I'm not by any means stating that I trust Trump only the fact that he himself did now publicly state that he would appoint justice(s) to the SCOTUS in line with Scalia; which is exactly what Cruz made public and was promised as well.  I'm not changing my mind about Trump.  I found it interesting that this point was brought up.  I saw a more subdued Trump and a Trump that had been knocked down a few pegs and that's a good thing.

As for Clinton, I watched her physical appearance very closely and it seemed to me she had some trouble focusing her eyes a couple of times.

[bigheadfred]

Unless I screwed up, which is not unlikely.

I'm there.

 

[Norm Lenhart]

I promise you, the first half of the debate was totally different than the second half.  But I understand what you are saying.  The ONLY time I thought Trump made a good point was when he commented about the judges.  It's just that I remember very well his derogatory statement he made about Scalia last December (I think it was).  Countless people have been suckered into supporting Trump for that one issue.  IT IS A SCAM.  He is saying what he was told to say in order to scam the Republican voter. 

The Judges were never suppose to be the key issue in choosing a President because they were to have neither force nor will.  The problem is that they are force and will -- all of it.  They've stolen it from we the people.  Trump won't fix that.

People were suckered into the wall. He reversed. People were suckered into deportations. He reversed. People were suckered into healthcare when he told them to their faces 'Sorry Conservatives" day one of his campaign.

People that believe anything he says based on just his actions in the campaign alone, much less his overall history, simply want to be lied to. Or they want liberalism, they just want some excuse to say they are conservative. Because after as many reversals as he has had to date, there is no logical reason to believe him on judges.

[bigheadfred]

I thought Trump really had his face under control. A big difference from the last debate. hillary seemed worn out.

As far as a SCOTUS judge a Trump pick would be better than a hillary pick. After the way Roberts folded it may not matter as much.

[skeeter]

trump beat expectations. trump did not win the debate. trump continues to look and sound like he knows very little about any subject except for a few lines thrown to his
rabid supporters. there is no way that trump won the debate on substance or knowledge.

These debates are 'won' through viewers perceptions. If Trump beat expectations and Hillary performed as expected then Trump 'won'.

Until we start having these debates using Oxford debating rules this is how it will be.

Personally, I thought Trump put more detail into his answers than he has in any debate to date. This doesn't mean I wasn't cringing a good deal of the time, but he did much much better, landing the punches he needed to land.

She came across as scripted and ice cold. IMO.

[bigheadfred]

@Norm Lenhart

People that believe anything he says based on just his actions in the campaign alone, much less his overall history, simply want to be lied to.

That is the majority. They want a mommy who hugs them and tells them everything is going to be all right as they look at the devastation of what used to be their home.

[musiclady]

These debates are 'won' through viewers perceptions. If Trump beat expectations and Hillary performed as expected then Trump 'won'.

Until we start having these debates using Oxford debating rules this is how it will be.

Personally, I thought Trump put more detail into his answers than he has in any debate to date. This doesn't mean I wasn't cringing a good deal of the time, but he did much much better, landing the punches he needed to land.

She came across as scripted and ice cold. IMO.

Regardless of his "performance" in a debate, Trump is still the same narcissistic, corrupt, dishonest reprobate he was before.

Anyone who is encouraged by his "performance" last night is beyond naïve.

He is no more presidential material today than he was yesterday, and he will lose badly to Hillary because of who he is, not how people perceived that he did in a TV performance.

[skeeter]

Regardless of his "performance" in a debate, Trump is still the same narcissistic, corrupt, dishonest reprobate he was before.

Yes, and so is Hillary.

I guess that leaves us up ol' sh*t creek.

[montanajoe]

Yes, and so is Hillary.

I guess that leaves us up ol' sh*t creek.

And the only way out is to start paddling against the current by refusing to vote for either....

[Norm Lenhart]

@Norm Lenhart

That is the majority. They want a mommy who hugs them and tells them everything is going to be all right as they look at the devastation of what used to be their home.

They will find it awful uncomfortable when their precious 'lesser evils' take their toys away for the greater good. Then their bank accounts. Then their homes. Thats OK. Since they enjoyed their liberal voting, I'll enjoy watching them scream about the results of it when it comes crashing in on them. Fair is fair. If I have to suffer the results of the majority of idiots, I'll take that little bit of a silver lining. Ultimately I'll look in a mirror and not hate my reflection.

[skeeter]

And the only way out is to start paddling against the current by refusing to vote for either....

OK, but please explain to me how you see that playing out here.

[musiclady]

Yes, and so is Hillary.

I guess that leaves us up ol' sh*t creek.

Yes, it does.

And you can thank the irrational Trump zealots who forced this mess on us.

If any of the decent candidates running in the primary had won, we would have taken the WH against Hillary easily.

Because of Trump and his minions, Hillary will win.

[skeeter]

Yes, it does.

And you can thank the irrational Trump zealots who forced this mess on us.

If any of the decent candidates running in the primary had won, we would have taken the WH against Hillary easily.

Because of Trump and his minions, Hillary will win.

BTW thats why I've tried hard to put everything I've heard and seen from Trump's most aggressive supporters here and on TOS when weighing what to do in November. They constitute a good chunk of what makes Trump so repellent.

[montanajoe]

OK, but please explain to me how you see that playing out here.

The country will survive four years no matter which one is elected. If the GOP is going to be a conservative party, then conservatives need to show they will not support the present direction of the party and vote with their feet. If enough Conservatives finally say enough is enough and refuse to vote for the GOP nominee then the party will either become conservative or die..

[Bigun]

OK, but please explain to me how you see that playing out here.

I'm hoping that enough people vote for the Constitution Party candidates to put their candidates officially on the ballot in more states next time around.

I think that is about the best we can hope for this cycle.

[skeeter]

The country will survive four years no matter which one is elected. If the GOP is going to be a conservative party, then conservatives need to show they will not support the present direction of the party and vote with their feet. If enough Conservatives finally say enough is enough and refuse to vote for the GOP nominee then the party will either become conservative or die..

Maybe from where you sit the country will seem to survive, but my state has been transformed by progressivism for good. I won't bother going into why but it will NEVER be the same as it was as recently as 30 years ago.

So while the US will remain a geographical location on the globe its naive to believe our system cannot be destroyed. In fact we are very close to being irredeemably, irreversibly changed. Probably already are.

Trump might slow the trend, he might not. Hillary will not. Thats what it comes down to for me, sadly.

[Norm Lenhart]

Maybe from where you sit the country will seem to survive, but my state has been transformed by progressivism for good. I won't bother going into why but it will NEVER be the same as it was as recently as 30 years ago.

So while the US will remain a geographical location on the globe its naive to believe our system cannot be destroyed. In fact we are very close to being irredeemably, irreversibly changed. Probably already are.

Trump might slow the trend, he might not. Hillary will not. Thats what it comes down to for me, sadly.

My state (AZ got the double whammy of being Californicated and having the border problem. But the only we can even begin to fix the mess is to stop making the mistakes that got us here.

[skeeter]

My state (AZ got the double whammy of being Californicated and having the border problem. But the only we can even begin to fix the mess is to stop making the mistakes that got us here.

Bush was a mistake. But Gore was the alternative.

Romney and McCain were mistakes. But Obama was the alternative.

The same old crap - here we are again, having to put our finger on the vein to stop the bleeding.

The time to stop making mistakes was the primaries. Believe me I wanted them to go differently.

[libertybele]

I'm hoping that enough people vote for the Constitution Party candidates to put their candidates officially on the ballot in more states next time around.

I think that is about the best we can hope for this cycle.

I think they've really made great strides this election cycle; they are out 3 states.  NY (pending), NC and OK.  They need more recognition and the backing of a big donor.  I don't know how they're going to accomplish that unless someone who already has tremendous name recognition decides to run.

https://www.constitutionparty.com/get-involved/election-central/ballot-access/

[Norm Lenhart]

Bush was a mistake. But Gore was the alternative.

Romney and McCain were mistakes. But Obama was the alternative.

The same old crap - here we are again, having to put our finger on the vein to stop the bleeding.

The time to stop making mistakes was the primaries. Believe me I wanted them to go differently.

The time to stop making mistakes is today. Not some nebulous future when the same excuse will be repeated.

[libertybele]

My state (AZ got the double whammy of being Californicated and having the border problem. But the only we can even begin to fix the mess is to stop making the mistakes that got us here.

The 'mess' isn't going to be fixed from the top down, but rather from the bottom up!

[Sanguine]

The 'mess' isn't going to be fixed from the top down, but rather from the bottom up!

@libertybele, if I knew what we could do, I would be doing it!  All of that "speak out, vote, contact your representative, etc." is just feel-good stuff.  It has minimal effect if that.