Author Topic: 'Specific info' forces WikiLeaks to move anticipated announcement to Berlin  (Read 2403 times)

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Offline dfwgator

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So far Wikileaks/DCLeaks have delivered 100% on their promises and far more damning than people imagined.

What they over-estimated was the American people caring or acting accordingly.
The American people knew the Clintons were slime all the way back in 1992, and voted for them anyway.

Oceander

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The notion that the law of a nation applies to persons who are not on the territory of the nation and are not citizens of the nation in question is obnoxious to the concept of national sovereignty.  Again, if extraterritorial application of laws to non-citizens is acceptable, the PRC can seek to arrest and/or extradite US citizens who have never been to China for actions taken outside of China.  If on the basis of treaties, Australia want to prosecute Assange for mishandling American classified information in violation of Australian law implementing such treaties, there would be nothing wrong with that.  I believe we have such treaties with some countries (I think the UK, possibly all of the 5-Eyes countries now), but the US has no right to apply our laws to non-Americans outside of the US, and the assertion of such a right created the right for other countries to apply their laws to Americans in America.


Says who?  Your point about extradition is a red herring:  the sovereign from whom extradition is sought has the sole discretion about whether to extradite or not, so the PRC couldn't do diddly or squat if the U.S. chose not to extradite.

The U.S. has every right to enact laws that apply to non-U.S. citizens for conduct that occurred outside the U.S.  Under traditional international law there only needs some modicum of connection - aka nexus - with the U.S. in a substantive sense, and U.S. classified information is more than sufficient nexus.

From a Proskauer summary on international jurisdiction and the presumption against extraterritoriality:
Quote
Exception for Criminal Statutes: There is no presumption against extraterritoriality when dealing with statutes prohibiting crimes against the U.S. government. U.S. v. Bowman, 260 U.S. 94 (1922); but see Kollias v. D & G Marine Maintenance, 29 F.3d 67, 71 (2d Cir. 1994), cert. denied, 513 U.S. 1146 (1995) (holding that Bowman should be read narrowly, such that “only criminal statutes, and perhaps only those relating to the government’s power to prosecute wrongs committed against it, are exempt from the presumption [against extraterritoriality]”). Criminal statutes are deemed not to be dependent upon the locality of their government’s jurisdiction, but on the right of the government to defend itself against obstruction and fraud committed by its own “citizens, officers or agents.” Bowman, 260 U.S. at 98.

Notice, in particular, that the presumption (which can be rebutted) against extraterritoriality does not apply to criminal statutes or statutes relating to the government's power to prosecute wrongs against it.  The abuse of U.S. classified information is a core wrong against the U.S. government qua government, and is therefore not subject to the presumption against extraterritoriality.

The U.S. has the right to make the abuse of U.S. classified information a crime by whomever committed, wherever committed.  The question comes down to power - the ability as a practical matter to enforce that law - and not to the right to enact the law in the first place.


Link to Proskauer piece:  http://www.proskauerguide.com/law_topics/25/II
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 01:15:10 am by Oceander »

Wingnut

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The American people knew the Clintons were slime all the way back in 1992, and voted for them anyway.

And will again, but for different reasons this time.

Online DCPatriot

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If he revealed classified information, we should deal with him the way Israel deals with its enemies when abroad The FBI and DOJ deals with Hillary Clinton's private server and classified information.


There...fixed it for you!    :laugh:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline sinkspur

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There...fixed it for you!    :laugh:

You fixed it for YOU.

That's not what I said and it's not what I meant.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Oceander

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You fixed it for YOU.

That's not what I said and it's not what I meant.

The only thing DCPatriot can do is pretend what others said and did.

Offline TomSea

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I don't care about this, it may well be more difficult to defeat Joe Biden; if there were a replacement.

I don't think it will be anything earth-shaking but I could be wrong.

Offline Idiot

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 :2popcorn:

Offline r9etb

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Says who?  Your point about extradition is a red herring:  the sovereign from whom extradition is sought has the sole discretion about whether to extradite or not, so the PRC couldn't do diddly or squat if the U.S. chose not to extradite.

Well, yes.  Far from being a "red herring," you have just made his exact point.  For the PRC to insist otherwise is rightly rejected as a violation of our sovereignty -- we're not bound by their laws.  Nor are they bound by ours -- a fact which Mr. Assange has exploited.

Offline corbe

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I don't care about this, it may well be more difficult to defeat Joe Biden; if there were a replacement.

I don't think it will be anything earth-shaking but I could be wrong.


   Hell, the last time ol plugs ran he beat only Chris Dodd, even Dennis Kucinich, Richardson and Edwards whipped him,  He got beat by  "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy, I mean, that's a storybook, man." and the Witch.

   He certainly 'seems' stupid enough to jump in this, bail hellary's ovaries outta the fire and try and save the DNC, Could Donald beat him?????????

NAW
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.