Data Recorder in Hoboken Train Crash Didn’t Work, NTSB Says (Video)

[rangerrebew]

Data Recorder in Hoboken Train Crash Didn’t Work, NTSB Says (Video)
By
Tammy Waitt -
October 3, 2016
 

By John Newsome, CNN

A data recorder that could have helped investigators answer why a New Jersey Transit train crashed in Hoboken last week was not working, the National Transportation Safety Board said Sunday.

“Unfortunately, the event recorder was not functioning during this trip,” NTSB Vice Chairman Bella Dinh-Zarr said.

Investigators said the data recorder was over 20 years old.

https://americansecuritytoday.com/data-recorder-hoboken-train-crash-didnt-work-ntsb-says-video/

[Oceander]

Oh boy.  That is going to make sussing out the causes of this accident a lot harder.  Seems to me that whomever is in charge of train safety should require that these things be tested annually and replaced if they fall out of spec, even if they still seem to be working overall.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

Hi @Fishrrman
As our resident railroader do you know if they ever test to make sure these are working?

[Fishrrman]

cowboy wrote:
"As our resident railroader do you know if they ever test to make sure these are working?"

I'm not sure how sophisticated the event recorders are on NJ Rail equipment, but the ones on Amtrak locomotives get "downloaded" at regular intervals. (Not pertinent to the Hoboken crash, but each trip on the Acela Express is recorded and archived -- they can go back years and check your performance every mile of the way).

At Hoboken, they went to the engine for the recorder info. It was on the rear of the train (train was running cab-car forward). Not sure why that one wasn't working, but they can still go to the cab car and try that one. The story right now is that they can't get at it because the roof collapsed over the cab car, but I don't see why a courageous company official couldn't risk life and limb to download the recorder (or retrieve a tape).

On Amtrak equipment, it's all digital. Just download to a card (similar to an SD card), put it into the playback machine, and "read it back".

These things have gotten VERY accurate and precise.
In the old days (I remember them), it was often just a roll of paper with a needle that moved with the speedometer to record the engine speed (almost like a seismograph). If there was a problem, one could just rip out the paper, heh.

I read elsewhere that the engineer (in questioning) said he was only doing 10mph entering the terminal track, but couldn't remember the crash. If you think back to the Metro-North crash several years ago, I believe that the engineer in that accident suffered from bouts of sleep apnea -- something that might cause a momentary loss of awareness. I wouldn't be surprised if it was something similar in the Hoboken accident.

In this case a "positive train control" system might not have prevented this, because (again) the train was approaching the bumping block at the correct speed and it was up to the engineer to apply the brake and stop before the bumping post.

It's possible to put in a system that would force the train to stop, but it would have to be set "far enough back" so that (once stopped) the rear of the train would be "hanging out" in the interlocking, probably tying the whole place up. Not something the dispatcher and tower operator want during rush hours.

And I'm sure the passengers (who at this point would be standing, getting things from the coat racks, etc.) would not like being thrown around by the force of an uncontrolled stop. A few might even file suit against the company for injuries!

[dfwgator]

[Idaho_Cowboy]

Thanks @Fishrrman I knew the theory, but most of my railroad reading is historical not modern. I thought most locomotives have a dead man's switch or alerter system? Was the equipment too old involved in the crash too old to have one, or can the operate fall over on it. I though that was a separate system from the PTC.