Cruz: I'm voting for Trump

[bigheadfred]

Okay.  Have another snow cone for your kitty. 



I'm just joking with you.  I love your avatar.

THANKS!!!! How did you know it was me? I was posting using my old Indian name. Weh-Ahh-Day-Eesh. It means "He Who Walks Through Shallow Waters". My friends call me WADE for short.

[Smokin Joe]

A nation that refuses to repent and doubles down on the very ideas anathema to our foundations because they believe them to be 'different' has indeed gone over the edge.  We have not even suffered the full consequences of the last 8 years yet.  But those are coming.

"But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty once lost is lost forever. When the People once surrender their share in the Legislature, and their Right of defending the Limitations upon the Government, and of resisting every Encroachment upon them, they can never regain it." - John Adams, July 7, 1775

We have already surrendered our share in the legislature by continuing to vote for and support those lesser evils who have refused to defend the Limitations upon the Government and refusing to resist every Encroachment upon our rights and upon the Constitution itself.

Not so much surrendered it as were defrauded by the numbers of candidates who wholeheartedly embraced TEA party virtues and values or claimed a Conservatism they conveniently forgot upon being elected. Had they actually been people of their word and done what they claimed they would, had they even fought the good fight, we would not be where we are today.

Those few who did go there and fight have been excoriated by the rest, for having been faithful to their promises.

Unfortunately, one of the standard bearers in that fight was rejected in this contest at hand, and although he will hopefully continue to fight where he is, has been supplanted by someone who has a track record of statements and behaviour decidedly antithetical to his current claims of Conservative values.
 
If the American people will be suckered by the first sweet talking SOB who comes along, they are going to live a nasty and abused life, especially when they have been wooed with platitudes designed to harness their emotion and little of substance.

History teaches very clearly what happens to former republics that have arrived where we are today.  The thinking that it cannot happen here, or that it is not near to the door, will prove fatal to those who hold that view.

The situation is ugly and deteriorating. Only principled people in positions to turn that juggernaut around could do so, and with the entrenched bureaucracy hostile to those efforts, a lot of jobs would have to be eliminated, a lot of personnel cashiered. The swamp at Foggy Bottom needs to be drained.
The unfortunate part of the situation is that there is an ever shrinking pool of people to fill the positions which would not be eliminated who could stand on principle and not turn into a quivering blob of terminally offended protoplasm every time anyone disagreed with them.

Civil means to restrain lawless tyrants and tyranny has zero chance of success.  ZERO.  I'm not infected with Normalcy Bias.  Human nature is what it is and history teaches where it always goes.

Why else render an entire generation into spineless sheep? They are more malleable. It's hard to put up any effective resistance when they are wounded by polysyllabic invective, much less just being braced and told just how full of shit they are, so how in the world are these skinless, mollycoddled, spineless, neutered neotenic creatures going to fight for a concept that only invites more conflict? They won't because it isn't a 'safe space'.

I envision a need to create a faction, group, Congress of actual Conservatives untouched by the poison at Mordor on the Potomac if for nothing more - to encourage and support our ideology and faith in local matters, and to endure to the end.   Maybe - if Providence would permit, our posterity might rebuild a society with liberty from a blueprint we leave it.

That's why I am pushing the Constitution Party. I don't expect to win the election this time around. What I want to do is preserve the principles that made this country great, that if it cannot be done now, perhaps sometime in the future the concept of a Constitutional Republic can be revived, and let it be noted that this nation's most incredibly prosperous and productive years were while that Republic's Constitution was followed more closely. If any will learn from history, let's make sure it gets written down, get those ideas planted in younger heads, because what comes next will not endure. No tyranny does.

[XenaLee]

No, we most assuredly arent.

Time to bury the hatchet and smoke the peace pipe.

[XenaLee]

I refuse to let a lie stand unchallenged, simply because someone who just tuned in might well believe that crap. I think it isn't so much what we say as how we say it. We just put the shoe out there for the Liberals who support Liberals, and let them wear it. I don't so much get offended any more, and Ronald Reagan helps me respond more calmly. ("There you go again"...)

Someone has to hose the poo off the glass at the monkey house, or no one will ever be able to see how 'cute' they are.

Lol!!!

 

[Norm Lenhart]

Time to bury the hatchet and smoke the peace pipe.

No, it most assuredly isn't. There is no need to make 'peace' with people trying to elect a liberal.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

STOP it guys............ you're on the same side!   

I'll drop it, but actually, we're not on the same side.  We perhaps would be if the GOP had nominated a better candidate, though.

[musiclady]

I'll drop it, but actually, we're not on the same side.  We perhaps would be if the GOP had nominated a better candidate, though.

Perhaps.   

[Cyber Liberty]

Time to bury the hatchet and smoke the peace pipe.

I'm always up for a good smoke of the peace pipe.   

[Maj. Bill Martin]

If all the really real principled Conservatives would really be real Conservatives then they would ALL be voting third party and at that for a third party that stands for what those really real principled Conservatives in reality want: Adherence to the Constitution.

yours truly

Weh Ahh Day EEsh

This is actually a really important post, because it cuts to the core of what is dividing so many of us.

@bigheadfred , I think if we did what you said, those "really really really principled conservatives" would constitute maybe -- maybe -- 20% of the vote.  If I'm being generous.  Probably closer to 15%.    That's my educated guesstimate after seeing who wins primaries and observing politics for a long time.

To my way of thinking, that means that splitting off into a new "true hardcore conservatives only" party is electoral suicide.  There would be the Democrats, a GOP consisting only of moderate Republicans, and then the Conservative (or Constitution, or whatever) Party.  It would absolutely hand election after election to Democrats.  And I'd point out that the "really really really principled progressives" are probably about the same percentage of the vote.  But they are relentless, and keep their eyes on the prize..  And they're massively aided by a sympathetic media, and entertaining opinion-shapers (among low information voters, anyway).  But they stay within the Democratic Party, and so get to shape policy.

I think that means that conservatives must build coalitions to be successful, and the only vehicle to build such coalitions is the GOP.  So, our only realistic chance of regaining power is to get the right conservative candidate who has enough charisma to unite that 20% and win in the primaries, win the nomination and support of the other half of the party, and then starting from that 40% base, be a strong enough candidate to get over the top in November.  I think that is our only plausible route to victory.

The thought that we can win simply because our ideas are right ignores the reality that being right isn't enough to convince a majority of voters.

I see that as the only feasible way to get a conservative in office.  So, though I have no doubt at all as to the strong conservative beliefs of someone like @Smokin Joe , I think he and others calling for an independent conservative party would succeed only in destroying whatever chance there is to actually put a conservative in the White House.  I just don't see it happening.  There just aren't enough of us to win on ideology alone.  If there were, we should have been able to dominate the GOP primaries with ease, every time.  And we can't/haven't.

I don't think you, Smokin Joe, or other conservatives advocating a new party are bad people, or liberals, or anything else negative.  I simply think you overestimate the political/electoral (as opposed to intellectual/moral) strength of the "true" conservative movement.

ETA:  Now, perhaps my estimates are wrong.  Maybe there really are as solid 35-40% of the electorate who are true, hardcore conservatives who can win a three way race.  But the fact that I don't believe an independent, hardcore conservative party can get 35-40% of the vote, and therefore don't support such an idea, does not make me a liberal.  It simply means my sense of the prevailing political sentiment is wildly wrong. 

[Sanguine]

That went well.   

[bigheadfred]

I'm always up for a good smoke of the peace pipe.   

So am I. But those bastids have my peace pipe in the Bad Things display case down at the court house. Bastids. I thought about going back down to wampum in the head--AGAIN, but they threatened to to twist my piece pipe if I did that. So I knead  to come up with a better plan. Rolling around some things in my head. Well, maybe I just have some things rolling around in my head.

Hey! You people should have gone out with me a bit ago to work on my Ranger. The tensioner pulley was screaming and whiningggg like a lib in heat. But I fixed t. Seems it was wound up a bit too tight.

[libertybele]

I don't think you, Smokin Joe, or other conservatives advocating a new party are bad people, or liberals, or anything else negative.  I simply think you overestimate the political/electoral (as opposed to intellectual/moral) strength of the "true" conservative movement.

Well, IMHO the strength of the 'true conservative movement' was/is larger than anyone imagined. If you recall, this election had been geared for a Clinton v. Bush run off that never took place.  The mid term election was a signal to the Washington cartel that they were looking at losing control over the people.  I believe it was then that the Trump/Clinton machine went into action and once Cruz stepped forward, Trump threw his hat into the arena and we all know the rest of the story.  We came extremely close to taking our country back.  Trump's nomination at the convention was sped through without even allowing a roll call vote by the delegates and I firmly believe the stories of delegates that had been threatened by the Trump camp.  The 'fix' for Hillary has been in the works for quite awhile.  (Think back at what happened to Bernie and the Clinton super delegates).

As I have stated several times; this election between Clinton and Trump is merely an illusion to allow people to believe that they actually have a choice.

[Norm Lenhart]

That went well.   

I think so. Now some people understand that some of us arent going to stand before the crowd with signed papers yelling "Peace in our time!" when the only hatchets to be buried are in the back of conservatives. Which we have seen an entire woodshed full of flying from the left side of the aisle.

I mean they ARE the people that cheered wildly when Trump broke the last conservative we had in DC. So the only peace there will be is on their terms. Which Stevie Wonder can see clearly. That means boarding the Trump Train so we can be complicit right along with them.

I don't do the shared guilt thing. People are welcome to join me in that. Or not.

[bigheadfred]

What I see are big groups of people who have been pretty much silent for the last election and maybe more. The failure of a viable third party is that there wasn't a candidate who has the flash in the pan projected image as a Trump. He said enough of the "right" things to energize those people. I see the GOP-E people opposed to Trump not because of Trump. They are afraid of that seemingly large group of people who want to "make America great again". And that group probably hold themselves to be true Conservatives, raised by true Conservatives: Those people that fought and WON WWII, worked in the factories, went to church every Sunday. And raised their kids to have personal responsibility and respect. Etcetera. Maybe you count yourself as one of those people. You know Trump isn't the best but is the best "you" have. And I am down with that. Just not "there".

I spent my whole life bucking the system when it needed it. I do/did not have a problem walking up to an elected official and telling them what I think. (Now it is more electronic bitching--email) Even (especially) that effing Sherf. He got "even" in spades. I didn't try to re even the score. I saw him over 5 years later in a Home Depot and he didn't want to talk to me. But I talked anyways. When I told him I had forgiven him he got all red and bulgy like he was going to pop a gasket. He blew that gasket a few days later and his dope dealing, wife beating, car chopping (he got a felony conviction for that and was STILL Sherf), bullshit was done. I view it as God giving me the chance to have my final say before He pulled the plug.

I am at a point in my life/spirituality that my conscience is free. Free at last. Praise the Lord I is ME. Free at last.

[roamer_1]

How does all that not get worse if she wins?

Your observations are valid, but in my mind, miss the point:

The reason liberalism is winning (and there is no denying that it is) is not because of any merit. The entire leftist 3rd way/ socialist/ communist paradigm has been soundly proven to be a poor course, over and over again. Every time it is tried, it results in death, destruction, and a starving, enslaved citizenry.

The reason it is winning is because there is no opposition to it.

Why?

Because 'our side', that representing capitalism, conservatism, and constitutionalism is *not* represented in any sort of authority - we are wholly disenfranchised, and have been since somewhere shortly after the 94 congress.

All of the woes you foresee are true - but if we had representatives who were in fact true believers, every one of those woes are able to be counteracted. All it takes is for an amendment to be enacted instructing that a particular law should be narrowly construed to counter whatever penumbra the SCOTUS might rule by fiat upon that law...

Every judge is capable of being impeached, and every bureaucrat fired for cause of abusing their office...

My premise is that 'our boys' ain't fighting the fight. Often they are directly working against us. They are imposters and appeasers, unwilling to stand upon that which we supposedly stand for, and that which they were supposedly elected to stand guard upon.

HOW THEN does electing yet another imposter solve any bloody thing at all? Predictably, the very same stuff will continue to occur, except that it will be done in our name. To vote yet another back east liberal wrapped in Republican colors is exactly antithetical to the cure - that being to elect those who actually believe as we do, that are willing to stand in the breach without fail.

To elect YET ANOTHER RINO is bad enough, not to mention electing one to the power of the presidency.

This sh*t's just naturally got to stop, and the way it stops is to start drawing hard lines.

[roamer_1]

THANKS!!!! How did you know it was me? I was posting using my old Indian name. Weh-Ahh-Day-Eesh. It means "He Who Walks Through Shallow Waters". My friends call me WADE for short.

I too was given a native name... They tell me it means one of two things:

'Hunting/stalking lone wolf of the mountains'
or
'He who sh*ts in both hands'...

dunno which... go figger.
 

[bigheadfred]

@roamer_1

This sh*t's just naturally got to stop, and the way it stops is to start drawing hard lines.

To do that. Rein it in. Reign over it. Just do a Rain Dance.

[bigheadfred]

I too was given a native name... They tell me it means one of two things:

'Hunting/stalking lone wolf of the mountains'
or
'He who sh*ts in both hands'...

dunno which... go figger.
 

I'm guessing it means the first one. The other one looks like doing a two thing with two things so it can't really be a one of two if it is a two of two.

[Wingnut]

I too was given a native name... They tell me it means one of two things:

'Hunting/stalking lone wolf of the mountains'
or
'He who sh*ts in both hands'...

dunno which... go figger.
 

That's better than "Two Dogs Humping"

[roamer_1]

Now, perhaps my estimates are wrong.  Maybe there really are as solid 35-40% of the electorate who are true, hardcore conservatives who can win a three way race. 

Yeah, your estimates are wrong. The secret to Conservatism is that it is a recipe, in a political sense.
Every time the Republicans put up a liberal dressed in conservative clothes, they lose. The closer they get to someone who actually IS conservative, the closer they are to a win.

And really, party membership has little to do with it. It is putting up a guy who walks the walk... and who that should be aimed at is not some attempt to go up the middle to take votes away from the Democrats. It should be designed to awaken those who don't have a reason to bother to vote. The vast majority of Conservatives are outside of the Republican Party, and many, many of them haven't voted in years.

If you want to raise the Conservative juggernaut, the recipe has always been the same. Stand hard and fast on the principles of the factions, and you will win. With bells on.

[roamer_1]

I'm guessing it means the first one. The other one looks like doing a two thing with two things so it can't really be a one of two if it is a two of two.

Who said anything about two-twos?



That ain't gonna work on me... sorry.

[roamer_1]

That's better than "Two Dogs Humping"

Ahh... the old 'Name him by whatever is happening when he comes out' trick...
Well at least now I know you were born either in the early spring or late fall...

[bigheadfred]

Who said anything about two-twos?



That ain't gonna work on me... sorry.

But darling, you look fabulous.

[roamer_1]

But darling, you look fabulous.

Really? It doesn't make my butt look big, does it?

[bigheadfred]

Really? It doesn't make my butt look big, does it?

The one in front????