Cruz: I'm voting for Trump

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The list is meaningless and we all know it.

Actually, we don't "all know" that at all.  Some of us think he'll very likely follow it, and those of you who don't can't "know" that he won't.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

See you have no rational argument.

All you can do, when I post some very good reasons to vote Trump, is stamp your feet and say "I don't believe it". Well do you believe Hillary when she says he will grant amnesty to millions of illegals in her first 100 days? Do you believe Hillary when she says she will bring in a 100,000 rapefugees a year for years and years? Do you believe Hillary when she says she will raise our taxes? What kind of judges do you think Hillary will appoint? Pretend all you want but know this President Hillary will kill the Republic.

@jpsb , that was extremely well said.

I can understand those who don't trust Trump.  No reason to do so, really.  But Hillary has been every open about exactly what she wants to do, her entire party is behind her, and there is no question that stuff is going to happen if she is elected.

It is really difficult to have a substantive conversation here focusing just on Hillary, but it is needed.  She'll get her Supreme Justice, likely more than one.  That Justice will not only be the 5th vote to reverse Heller, but it will be the 5th vote necessary to approve Obama's backdoor, administrative legalization and path to citizenship.  And that means somewhere around 10 million new voters who owe a big debt to the progressive machine. 

How can we possibly come back from that?  The systemic demographic advantage on the left will be too big to overcome.  And that's not even mentioning the likely reversal of Citizens United as well, and resultant clampdown on the ability of anyone but progressives to get an effective message out to voters.  I think some people forget that Citizens United was literally about an anti-Hillary movie "Hillary, the Movie", that the FEC banned from being released.

I really wish some of the sharper #neverTrumps, like @Smokin Joe , would address what the election of Hillary would mean without referencing Trump.  Because if she wins -- which is very likely at this point -- we might as well not even have a GOP primary in 2020.  The numbers will make it a Democrat lock from there moving forward.

[DCPatriot]

Just pointing out your boy is a globalist, in thrall to globalist bankers and foreign business partners.

What a crock!!

You guys in here have been treating Donald Trump like a school girl at a Boko Haram picnic.

Everyone of you sicken me.  I pray that when he wins, you'll come back to whatever common sense still remains.   

PS:  I'm not optimistic. 

[Norm Lenhart]

Everyone of you sicken me. 

Thats OK. I cant even post what I think of you.  But the words 'human garbage' are in the sentence.

[LMAO]

I pray that when he wins, you'll come back to whatever common sense still remains.   

PS:  I'm not optimistic.

Wrong

If he does win, it will be up to him to prove those of us doubters that we were wrong. Just winning an election isn't enough. I hope, assuming he does win, I can come back four years later and admit my error and enthusiastically support him. So far, he's proving me and like minding people right

PS: I'm not optimistic

[XenaLee]

Trump and Pence and their campaign gave Cruz a list of 21 people who he was promised a justice would be selected from.  Cruz isn't stupid and he knows not to trust Trump; that is why he's made his decision and the 'list' so public.  The public now knows that IF Trump is elected he promised one of the justices to be on the list.  Doesn't mean it's going to happen and it certainly doesn't mean that Trump will even be our POTUS.  Cruz held out for something positive (if only a very slim positive) for the GOP to hold on to; a reason for the GOP electorate to vote for the candidate that is the very unpopular GOP nominee.  The RNC screwed us with a corrupt convention.  Cruz at least got a promise; pehaps a hollow promise, but what has anyone else done for us??

Good point.  As usual, the only one really trying to combat this creeping leftism is Cruz.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

All right guys, group hug!!!

[Norm Lenhart]

All right guys, group hug!!!

No thanks. I tend to not touch people tainted by with whatever Trump infected them with.

[libertybele]

@jpsb , that was extremely well said.

I can understand those who don't trust Trump.  No reason to do so, really.  But Hillary has been every open about exactly what she wants to do, her entire party is being her, and there is no question that stuff is going to happen if she is elected.

It is really difficult to have a substantive conversation here focusing just on Hillary, but it is needed.  She'll get her Supreme Justice, likely more than one.  That Justice will not only be the 5th vote to reverse Heller, but it will be the 5th vote necessary to approve Obama's backdoor, administrative legalization and path to citizenship.  And that means somewhere around 10 million new voters who owe a big debt to the progressive machine. 

How can we possibly come back from that?  The systemic demographic advantage on the left will be too big to overcome.  And that's not even mentioning the likely reversal of Citizens United as well, and resultant clampdown on the ability of anyone but progressives to get an effective message out to voters.  I think some people forget that Citizens United was literally about an anti-Hillary movie "Hillary, the Movie", that the FEC banned from being released.

I really wish some of the sharper #neverTrumps, like @Smokin Joe , would address what the election of Hillary would mean without referencing Trump.  Because if she wins -- which is very likely at this point -- we might as well not even have a GOP primary in 2020.  The numbers will make it a Democrat lock from there moving forward.

I clearly understand where' your coming from and I have stated many times even during 'W's administration that granting amnesty would increase the DEM electorate so much that the chances of the GOP winning another election, (and I'm not just talking the presidency, but the House and Senate as well) is slim to none.  This of course has been one of the primary reasons behind the push for amnesty.  With Hillary we know absolutely what she will do because of her past voting record and because of her past actions.  With Trump we don't know.  I however believe Trump was inserted into this election to stomp on conservatism and it worked. There is absolutely no guarantee that Trump will do anything that he says; he's proven not to be steadfast in what he says. I also strongly believe that the GOP has the right to crash and burn.  There still remains the very slight possibility that a 3rd party could deny either Trump or Clinton the majority. With the redistricting of several precincts throughout the country favoring the DEMS, in my humble opinion, I think this possibility is out of reach.

I keep mulling over the different scenarios as I haven't voted for anyone that I think will continue the destruction of this country for several election cycles.  Hillary = amnesty, millions of Muslim refugees, loss of 2nd amendment rights and tilting the Supreme Court to the left. Basically with Hillary we lose our country.  Trump there is no guarantee.  We have no voting record to depend on only that he has stated that he's against amnesty, against refugees, and a promise of conservative SCOTUS justices.

IF one votes for Trump and Trump doesn't do anything that he said he was going to do, (and there is a very strong possibility) they are responsible for electing Trump and we would never know if taking a gamble on a 3rd party would pay off.

IMHO Cruz was absolutely correct; don't stay home, vote your conscience and vote down ballot. IMHO without holding the majority in the Senate and the House we have absolutely no chance of keeping our country. Something to keep in mind;  It is the Senate that ultimately enters judgment on impeachment proceedings and it is the Senate that ultimately approves the SCOTUS justice.

[skeeter]

Trump and Pence and their campaign gave Cruz a list of 21 people who he was promised a justice would be selected from.  Cruz isn't stupid and he knows not to trust Trump; that is why he's made his decision and the 'list' so public.  The public now knows that IF Trump is elected he promised one of the justices to be on the list.  Doesn't mean it's going to happen and it certainly doesn't mean that Trump will even be our POTUS.  Cruz held out for something positive (if only a very slim positive) for the GOP to hold on to; a reason for the GOP electorate to vote for the candidate that is the very unpopular GOP nominee.  The RNC screwed us with a corrupt convention.  Cruz at least got a promise; pehaps a hollow promise, but what has anyone else done for us??

Well said. Actually, Cruz has given me the single best reason to vote for Trump next month.

Trump has no one to blame but himself for the fracturing of what should be a solid coalition against an extremely weak candidate. I'm sure his supporters had a good ol' time during the primaries but now the butchers bill is due.

In the future candidates thinking of copying the Trump route to the nomination had best think again.

[Cyber Liberty]

Well said. Actually, Cruz has given me the single best reason to vote for Trump next month.

Trump has no one to blame but himself for the fracturing of what should be a solid coalition against an extremely weak candidate. I'm sure his supporters had a good ol' time during the primaries but now the butchers bill is due.

In the future candidates thinking of copying the Trump route to the nomination had best think again.

They're still trashing Cruz, so I'd say the necessary lesson will not be learnt until Trump loses, and will never be if Trump somehow wins.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

All right guys, group hug!!!

Hey Bea, is that a flashlight in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

[Norm Lenhart]

They're still trashing Cruz, so I'd say the necessary lesson will not be learnt until Trump loses, and will never be if Trump somehow wins.

People didn't learn the lesson about libs with Romney. They won't with Trump. They will do what the Romney faithful do to this day...Blame conservatives for standing on principle. They will never accept responsibility for insisting on a liberal when we told them before the primary we would not be there if they got Romney as the candidate.

And we won't be there for Trump.

[INVAR]

Pretend all you want but know this President Hillary will kill the Republic. By voting anyone but Trump you are helping to kill the republic.

Well, we are voting for someone other than Trump or Hillary.  What do you intend to do about it??

Wanna charge us with Treason for daring to vote our consciences?

I've read lots of your compatriots promising that very thing and worse.

And just how are you ever going to elect a conservative nationally once those tens of millions of new Marxist voter start voting? I'd really like to hear the #NeverTrump answer to that question.

You're a little late to reality.

We lost the Republic 4 years ago for certain.  It exists now in Name Only while the defacto Fascist/Marxist Oligarchy cabal keeps you locked in your cage of thinking your vote counts for one of the two liberals they have "running" so as to keep the populace complacent for a little while longer.

You been had, and you will refuse to ever realize it.

A fatal case of Normalcy Bias.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I keep mulling over the different scenarios as I haven't voted for anyone that I think will continue the destruction of this country for several election cycles.  Hillary = amnesty, millions of Muslim refugees, loss of 2nd amendment rights and tilting the Supreme Court to the left. Basically with Hillary we lose our country....

...IF one votes for Trump and Trump doesn't do anything that he said he was going to do, (and there is a very strong possibility) they are responsible for electing Trump and we would never know if taking a gamble on a 3rd party would pay off.

If Hillary basically means "game over", then what chance would a conservative third party have anyway?  Let's say that conservative third party "works".  You'd have the more conservative elements of the GOP form that new party, maybe bring in some disenchanted outsiders.  But on the flip side, the Bush wing of the party goes Democrat, along with all those huge numbers of new voters.

I just don't see the numbers working even for a successful conservative third party in 2020 if Hillary wins and the illegals get the vote.  It would require the massive demographic shift left to reverse itself and suddenly start supporting a party even more conservative than the GOP.  I just don't see a way around the immigration/legalization/voting trump card of the Democrats if Hillary wins.  Am I missing something?

I suppose you could basically make the "Galt" argument of turning the country over to the left entirely, letting them destroy it, and starting over.  But I think that's much more fun, and much more plausible, in a book than it would be in real life.

[Cyber Liberty]

People didn't learn the lesson about libs with Romney. They won't with Trump. They will do what the Romney faithful do to this day...Blame conservatives for standing on principle. They will never accept responsibility for insisting on a liberal when we told them before the primary we would not be there if they got Romney as the candidate.

And we won't be there for Trump.

I agree with that.  After 2012, there was a "post mortem" and I disagreed with every conclusion the party leaders made.  As usual, they walked away and learned all the wrong lessons.  This planted the seeds of the Trump Nomination. 

God has a way of teaching the same lesson over and over again, until it gets learned.  It's kind of frightening the end result of that is Trump, isn't it?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Well, we are voting for someone other than Trump or Hillary.  What do you intend to do about it??  Wanna charge us with Treason for daring to vote our consciences?

Wow.  Persecution complex much?

Paranoid fantasies aside, nothing is going to "happen" to those who don't support Trump, except whatever the consequences are of Hillary Clinton winning the election.  Those consequences will affect all of us.   But if you're at peace with that, then you have no reason to be worried about Trump losing.  Nobody is going to hunt you down with dogs.

The worst you'll get in terms of "retribution" will likely be some "I told you so's."  I suspect you're more than capable of handling those.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I agree with that.  After 2012, there was a "post mortem" and I disagreed with every conclusion the party leaders made.  As usual, they walked away and learned all the wrong lessons.  This planted the seeds of the Trump Nomination.

I agree, and that's a perfect illustration why not voting for someone doesn't "send a message" of any value.  The only effective way to "send a message" is to support the candidates you prefer in the primary.  Not supporting the nominee sends way too many ambiguous messages because the reasons for not supporting a candidate vary widely between voters.

I'm not saying that means everyone should vote for the nominee just because he's the nominee.  I'm simply saying that if your motivation for not doing so is to "send a message", you've very likely to be disappointed.

[Hoodat]

Well do you believe Hillary when she says he will grant amnesty to millions of illegals in her first 100 days? .  .  . Do you believe Hillary when she says she will raise our taxes? What kind of judges do you think Hillary will appoint? Pretend all you want but know this President Hillary will kill the Republic.

Do you believe Trump when he says he will expedite the return of deported illegals, granting them 'legal' status?  Do you believe Trump when he ways he will raise our taxes, even arguing that higher taxes stimulate the economy?  What kind of judges do you think Trump will appoint, taking into account his contempt for the Bill of Rights and his 100% support of Kelo?  Pretend all you want, but know this:  President Trump will kill the Republic.

And just how are you ever going to elect a conservative nationally once those tens of millions of new Marxist voter start voting?

We can't get a Conservative elected nationally now, thanks to Trump supporters and a Republican party that was totally willing to let Democrats cross over and choose our candidate in return for ceding even more power to the GOP Establishment.  In the primary, Trump supporters had their choice between voting for a Conservative or voting for a liberal.  They chose to vote for the liberal.  And they cheered on Democrat crossover voters who switched sides to vote for the most unelectable candidate in the entire field.  So don't lecture me about electing a Conservative nationally when you are so eager to sell out and vote for a liberal.

I'd really like to hear the #NeverTrump answer to that question.

I am #NeverLiberal - not #NeverTrump.  And as long as Trump chooses to remain #NeverConservative, he will not have my vote.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Do you believe Trump when he says he will expedite the return of deported illegals, granting them 'legal' status?  Do you believe Trump when he ways he will raise our taxes, even arguing that higher taxes stimulate the economy?  What kind of judges do you think Trump will appoint, taking into account his contempt for the Bill of Rights and his 100% support of Kelo?  Pretend all you want, but know this:  President Trump will kill the Republic.

Well, if you think they are both certain to destroy the Republic, then this is the last election that matters period, and whether a new conservative party forms or the GOP elects a conservative in 2020 won't matter a lick.  No point in even going to the polls at all in a month.  Right?

In the primary, Trump supporters had their choice between voting for a Conservative or voting for a liberal.  They chose to vote for the liberal.  And they cheered on Democrat crossover voters who switched sides to vote for the most unelectable candidate in the entire field.  So don't lecture me about electing a Conservative nationally when you are so eager to sell out and vote for a liberal.

I'll just say that a fair number of us voting for Trump in November did not support him at any point during the primaries.

[INVAR]

Wow.  Persecution complex much?

Paranoid fantasies aside, nothing is going to "happen" to those who don't support Trump, except whatever the consequences are of Hillary Clinton winning the election.  Those consequences will affect all of us.   But if you're at peace with that, then you have no reason to be worried about Trump losing.  Nobody is going to hunt you down with dogs.

The worst you'll get in terms of "retribution" will likely be some "I told you so's."  I suspect you're more than capable of handling those.

My Opa tells me stories about his neighbors growing up, who dismissed all the threats they heard repeated on the radio and the local sturmabteilungs who roughed up locals in corner brahauses and gaststättes, to get out the vote for Hitler in the early 30s.   All the talk and 'rumors' of what they intended to do to those in the country who did not care for the imposter and city thugs, was dismissed as 'crazy talk'.

No one believed they were serious about punishing and getting rid of Jewry in Europe either.   They said that was fantasy and even after the fact, some relatives say it never happened because it was too absurd, even up the day they died.

Someone who lived history has warned me never to discount threats, especially political ones.

So I don't.

History repeats for a reason, and angry and frightened people often act out or applaud those things that punish those that they blame.  Fact of history and human nature.

You can pretend that can never happen here if you like.

I'm not one of those.  Call it paranoia if you like.  Discount the threats all you like. 

You will have a rude awakening one day.

[Longmire]

It cracks me up that y'all talk about the Uniparty and can't see the Republicrats have finally made sure the POTUS election is just more of that.

Hint: They are both Globalists, they're both in thrall to the bankers, they both have business in Muslim countries.

Trump has famously said he was running for President of the United States, not President of the world. He is a pro-Brexit, euro skeptic who predicted Britain's leave referendum outcome.

Trump called NATO obsolete and has called for a major revamp of America's military commitments abroad and a re-balancing of trade agreements at home.

The notion that someone who's campaign slogan is Make America Great Again is himself is a globalist is absurd and points to an incomplete understanding of both Trump and globalism itself.

 

[aligncare]

Trump has famously said he was running for President of the United States, not President of the world. He is a pro-Brexit, euro skeptic who predicted Britain's leave referendum outcome.

Trump called NATO obsolete and has called for a major revamp of America's military commitments abroad and a re-balancing of trade agreements at home.

The notion that someone who's campaign slogan is Make America Great Again is himself is a globalist is absurd and points to an incomplete understanding of both Trump and globalism itself.

 

Good points, well made. Too bad it's wasted here.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

My Opa tells me stories about his neighbors growing up, who dismissed all the threats they heard repeated on the radio and the local sturmabteilungs who roughed up locals in corner brahauses and gaststättes, to get out the vote for Hitler in the early 30s.   All the talk and 'rumors' of what they intended to do to those in the country who did not care for the imposter and city thugs, was dismissed as 'crazy talk'.

Weimar Germany had no constitutional, democratic traditions or reliable institutions dedicated to the preservation of basic decency and constitutional order.  Apart from the crippled Weimar government, Germany went from one Imperial ruler to another. The military owed it's loyalty only to the government, not to the people or Constitution.

That is not the United States.  I don't know if you have any military experience, or know many people of rank in the military, but the overwhelming majority of American military personnel would not tolerate that for a moment in this country.  They're not going to rebel based on a bad Supreme Court decision, but they'd also never tolerate anything like what you're describing.  Nor would the vast majority of police/sheriff's departments, but if they did, they'd quickly find themselves outgunned by citizens, and a noncompliant military would be required -- and would refuse -- to enforce that.

Analogies to Weimar Germany don't fit the U.S.. Maybe in 20-30 years, who knows.  But we're not close to that yet.

[Wingnut]

Good point. Too bad it's wasted here.

You and Long are like two skeletons screwing on a metal roof using a tin can for a condom.  Making a hell off a lot of noise but getting no results.