No, Tulsa Cops Didn’t Shoot A Black Man With His Hands Up

[Suppressed]

In reality cops face a far greater threat from traffic accidents than from violence.

In large part because of the caution they use in encounters!

Besides, many jobs have lower death rates than from traffic accidents, but we don't say "take the safety guards off that machinery...a few extra deaths is fine, as long as it's not higher than traffic accidents!"

[Suppressed]

I have two nephews who are street cops, and they tell me every time I see them they just don't understand the new generation of gun-happy police.

It might seem totally unrelated, but the blame for this goes back to liberal judges, legislators, and Executives, and the bleeding-heart supporters who enable them.

It used to be that most criminals knew not to shoot at cops, as there were severe consequences.  As death penalties and other harsh penalties were removed*, criminals became more brazen.  They also upgunned.

No longer could a cop in shirt sleeves serve a warrant without facing a hail of bullets.  Thus, the cops became more armored/better armed/more cautious.  It's no wonder that people (cops are people) who want to survive the day will be more likely to shoot.

*I know of a judge who would say from the bench that it was cops' job to get attacked and injured!

[driftdiver]

In large part because of the caution they use in encounters!

Besides, many jobs have lower death rates than from traffic accidents, but we don't say "take the safety guards off that machinery...a few extra deaths is fine, as long as it's not higher than traffic accidents!"

The larger part because their jobs just aren't as dangerous as they want us to believe.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

The larger part because their jobs just aren't as dangerous as they want us to believe.

So says the soft mushy keyboard warrior internet tough guy hiding behind his monitor.

[driftdiver]

So says the soft mushy keyboard warrior internet tough guy hiding behind his monitor.

Awww you strained and strained but couldn't get your pea brain to think of anything so you had to start throwing out insults.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Awww you strained and strained but couldn't get your pea brain to think of anything so you had to start throwing out insults.

Tough guy... how many criminals did you catch with your keyboard this morning?

[driftdiver]

Tough guy... how many criminals did you catch with your keyboard this morning?

How many did you?

So according to you only cops should have a say in how law enforcement is practiced.   So you want a police state, very much in line with what Obama wants.   

So go crawl back under your rock before you strain your pea brain.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

How many did you?

I'm not the one shooting my mouth off about how supposedly easy and safe being a policeman from behind the relative safety of my keyboard.

[driftdiver]

I'm not the one shooting my mouth off about how supposedly easy and safe being a policeman from behind the relative safety of my keyboard.

You're behind you keyboard right?    Either that or sitting in your car eating donuts collecting tax revenue.

Its not just me saying its safer.  Its the facts, you know the rates of injury for types of job.   Being a policeman isn't even in the top 10.   If you remove car accidents from their stats the number of police injured/killed by violence is quite low.

But you cant justify bigger budgets and gigantic egos with the facts can ya.  No, you have to make up these fairy tales to do that.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

You're behind you keyboard right?

I'm not criticizing people who have to deal with the absolute dregs of society though. I know my ass is privileged, at least as far as ease of occupation goes.

I don't sit here criticizing firefighters, soldiers, or EMT workers either. I know their jobs are way more dangerous and harder (in many ways) than mine is.

[driftdiver]

http://time.com/4326676/dangerous-jobs-america/

Most Dangerous Jobs of 2014
2014 RANK   OCCUPATION   FATAL INJURIES PER 100,000 PEOPLE   TOTAL DEATHS
1   Logging workers   110.9   78
2   Fishers and related fishing workers   80.8   22
3   Aircraft pilots and flight engineers   64   82
4   Roofers   47.4   83
5   Refuse and recyclable material collectors   35.8   27
6   Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers   26.7   270
7   Structural iron and steel workers   25.2   15
8   Driver/sales workers and truck drivers   24.7   880
9   Electrical power-line installers and repairers   19.2   25
10   Taxi drivers and chauffeurs   18   68
11   First-line supervisors of construction trades and extraction workers   17.9   130
12   Construction laborers   16.9   208
13   First-line supervisors of landscaping, lawn service, and groundskeeping workers   16.4   33
14   Maintenance and repairs workers, general   14.4   68
15   Police and sheriff's patrol officers   13.5   97
16   Grounds maintenance workers   13.1   158
17   First-line supervisors of mechanics, installers, and repairers   12.3   38
18   Painters, construction and maintenance   10.8   46
19   Electricians   10.4   79
20   Telecommunications line installers and repairers   10   19

[driftdiver]

I'm not criticizing people who have to deal with the absolute dregs of society though. I know my ass is privileged, at least as far as ease of occupation goes.

I don't sit here criticizing firefighters, soldiers, or EMT workers either. I know their jobs are way more dangerous and harder (in many ways) than mine is.

Strawman, you've revealed yourself as a big government police state hack.   

This is a Republic.  All citizens have a say in how their government is run and how their public servants, serve.   Move to China if you don't like that model.  We have far too many people like you here.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Strawman, you've revealed yourself as a big government police state hack.   

This is a Republic.  All citizens have a say in how their government is run and how their public servants, serve.   Move to China if you don't like that model.  We have far too many people like you here.

Strawman? Project much? Who said I wanted a government like China?

As for your comment about me being a "hack" please read my signature. TYVM

[driftdiver]

Strawman? Project much? Who said I wanted a government like China?

As for your comment about me being a "hack" please read my signature. TYVM

quit your crying.   When you apologize I'll start caring what you say and what you think. Too bad you cant man up.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

quit your crying.   When you apologize I'll start caring what you say and what you think. Too bad you cant man up.

Apologize for what?

[driftdiver]

Apologize for what?

Yea thats pretty much what I expected.   Too bad, I had always thought you were a more decent sort of person.  I'm done with ya.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Yea thats pretty much what I expected.   Too bad, I had always thought you were a more decent sort of person.  I'm done with ya.

I'm at a loss for what I should apologize for.

[goatprairie]

Indeed, in absolute numbers, more whites are killed by police than blacks.  Of course, per capita the rate for blacks is about 180% that of whites.  And, per capita Native Americans are more likely to be killed than blacks.  Is there a "Native Lives Matter" or "Red Lives Matter" movement?

More than a decade ago I was involved with a incident that resulted with a NA getting shot and killed by the police. The man was a violent, paroled ex-convict who was literally off his medication and had wandered 500 miles from his home in a stolen car. I passed his very slow moving car on my way to work, and he took objection. He rammed my car and another car disabling both. Attempting to get away he crashed his stolen car into a tree.
He stole another car and was chased by county cops before his speeding car overturned on a curve ironically not far from my house. As he emerged bleeding in a cornfield from his overturned car with a knife in his hand, he was facing four county cops with their guns drawn commanding him to drop the knife. The officers' commands were recorded, and they commanded the man to drop his knife for half a minute. The guy decided then to charge the cops instead of dropping his knife and submitting to their commands. The cops riddled the guy and he was probably dead before he hit the ground.

[driftdiver]

More than a decade ago I was involved with a incident that resulted with a NA getting shot and killed by the police. The man was a violent, paroled ex-convict who was literally off his medication and had wandered 500 miles from his home in a stolen car. I passed his very slow moving car on my way to work, and he took objection. He rammed my car and another car disabling both. Attempting to get away he crashed his stolen car into a tree.
He stole another car and was chased by county cops before his speeding car overturned on a curve ironically not far from my house. As he emerged bleeding in a cornfield from his overturned car with a knife in his hand, he was facing four county cops with their guns drawn commanding him to drop the knife. The officers' commands were recorded, and they commanded the man to drop his knife for half a minute. The guy decided then to charge the cops instead of dropping his knife and submitting to their commands. The cops riddled the guy and he was probably dead before he hit the ground.

@The_Reader_David @goatprairie

So is there a native american lives matter group?

[goatprairie]

You just outlined the problem.   Cops are running around thinking they are 0.7 seconds from death.  Every single interaction they have with the public is approached from that angle.  In reality cops face a far greater threat from traffic accidents than from violence.   

We shouldn't be "In their sights" unless theres a dang good reason.  This man could have been taken down different ways without shooting him.   

I guess when you live in a police state you need to get used to living 0.7 seconds away from being shot by a cop.

We don't live in a police state...we live in a welfare state. The police are near the bottom of the list of problems faced by average Americans. Even black Americans. If a black person is not committing a crime, resisting arrest, or running from a crime, they have about  a zero chance of getting shot by a cop.

[goatprairie]

You don't have to convince me that there are bad cops, badly trained cops, corruption within departments - I have heard it all.  I as well have family who were officers, cousins - a husband & wife who retired together recently from the Broward County FL Sheriff's Office, he a K9 officer and at the time of  retirement a detective, she a street cop.  And my dad's cousin who graduated from the FBI National Academy, later becoming a police officer and then appointed as the Police Chief of the city where I grew up. I spent a lot of time with all of them and heard the stories both good and bad about the officers they work and superiors. Not all are gems that is for sure, while other are absolute God-sent angles who have a passion for protecting the community and changing lives.

What I am asking is let's not join the hysteria and wait for the facts.   

From what I've read cops make over 10-12 million stops of citizens per year for various reasons. There are about 600-800  fatal shootings of citizens by cops annually. In virtually every case the person shot had committed a crime, was resisting arrest, or fleeing from a crime.
The instances of cops shooting people because the person flinched or something is minuscule. Even the guy shot in Tulsa had failed to obey police orders. Does that mean he deserved to be shot? No...it just means the cops were concerned that the guy, who had a record, was about to do something to threaten them.
Some people can lay charges about overzealous cops (and I was involved with one years ago), but the facts remain unless you're doing one of three things I listed, your chances of getting shot and killed by a police officer are about nil. Some people on the forum should really look at the data instead of making wild claims.

[driftdiver]

We don't live in a police state...we live in a welfare state. The police are near the bottom of the list of problems faced by average Americans. Even black Americans. If a black person is not committing a crime, resisting arrest, or running from a crime, they have about  a zero chance of getting shot by a cop.

Sure we live in a police state.  That its also heavily a welfare state has no impact on the power of the police.

The FBI has been politicized to the point they destroy evidence of crimes committed by the powerful.  You can't effectively travel without permission because they can put you on a list without due process.   They monitor everything you do (emails, phone, internet, travel) without a warrant.  They can stop and demand your papers, even search you with no more cause then a whim.   They can shoot your dog at will.   

The only thing they haven't managed to do is fully federalized all law enforcement.  Something which Obama is pushing hard for and nobody is stopping him.

[sneakypete]

No, Tulsa Cops Didn’t Shoot A Black Man With His Hands Up

September 20, 2016| by Brian Anderson

You may have noticed a particular level of outrage today over the police shooting of a black man in Tulsa, OK. According to the left side of the Internet, racist white police officers gunned down a black man who had his hands up and was trying to surrender. In reality, the police shot a man who refused to obey commands and made a sudden movement that any reasonable person would perceive as a threat.

ABC News reports that on Friday Tulsa PD officers were responding to a call when they came upon a white SUV sitting in the middle of the road, blocking both directions of traffic. They approached the vehicle, which was running and found it was empty. Lefties are insisting that the car had broken down, but if it was still running, that’s not true.

http://downtrend.com/71superb/no-tulsa-cops-didnt-shoot-a-black-man-with-his-hands-up

@rangerrebew

That is just the beginning of it. For hours they were claiming he was a Pastor,a father of 3,and his SUV was broken down.

Come to find out it is his father that was the Pastor,he wasn't broken down,he had at least one arrest for drug possession,and was in possession of PCP when he was shot. Which means chances are he was ON PCP when shot.

I seem to remember PCP was originally made as a hog tranquilizer,and it DOES make humans anything BUT tranquil . In fact it makes MOST humans batshit crazy,violent,and damn near impervious to pain or even broken bones. If someone high on PCP comes at you,shoot them until they quit moving or you run out of ammo. If you run out of ammo before they quit moving,reload and repeat until they do stop moving.

[NavyCanDo]

“THE POLICE ACTED STUPIDLY”  - The Trump Version

"he looked like a really good man... it looked like he did everything right.   I don't know what she was thinking... Was she scared? Was she choking?"


First I am not justifying the shooting of Mr. Crutcher - let the investigation look into what happened at the very end that led to the tazing and the shot being fired.   But Crutcher was clearly NOT doing everything right. He was clearly disobeying a lawful order by walking away and back to his car. Hands-up or not the police at that point are in the highest level of alert.

Trump did an Obama, by opening his mouth too soon, and stating something that was not true. 

[goatprairie]

Sure we live in a police state.  That its also heavily a welfare state has no impact on the power of the police.

The FBI has been politicized to the point they destroy evidence of crimes committed by the powerful.  You can't effectively travel without permission because they can put you on a list without due process.   They monitor everything you do (emails, phone, internet, travel) without a warrant.  They can stop and demand your papers, even search you with no more cause then a whim.   They can shoot your dog at will.   

The only thing they haven't managed to do is fully federalized all law enforcement.  Something which Obama is pushing hard for and nobody is stopping him.

Show me proof the FBI is doing all things please.