If you’ve reached “the end of Conservatism” because of Trump, your conservatism was pretty thin

[INVAR]

You're in the extreme minority of Americans who will vote for someone who has 0% chance of winning. There's no reason for anyone to bother courting you as a voter when there are much easier people to reach.

Might want to tell that to your compatriots who are promising to kill us for treason because we refuse to vote for your prince.

[beandog]

Earth to NeverTrump! Your country is calling.

A Darrell Castle vote might make you feel good about yourself -- Rush Limbaugh famously notes how the hallmark of liberal thinking is self affirmation and self esteem -- but that won't stop Hillary.

Darrell Castle is a wasted vote.

The ones who didn't answer the call when their country was calling, are the tRump supporters.  They are the ones who turned their back on this country and they are the ones who are and will be responsible for whatever is to come.

[aligncare]

What does principle avail, save misuided pride and failure of vision, when Clinton doubles down in Obama's third term, preserve all his EO's, adds her own  and stacks SCOTUS for 30+ years?

Politics is and always has been the art of the possible, not the ideal.

You know me well enough to know that I am not denigrating either principle or conviction. I AM calling for a correct and coherent application of them.

You can pretty it up, but they're not gonna listen to common sense.

[roamer_1]

What does principle avail, save misuided pride and failure of vision, when Clinton doubles down in Obama's third term, preserve all his EO's, adds her own  and stacks SCOTUS for 30+ years?

It is not misguided pride, nor a failure of vision to realize that voting for a liberal in the guise of being a Republican and a conservative is doing immediate and direct damage to the Conservative cause. It is an ages old wisdom to keep the fox outside of the hen house, and the wolf on the other side of the sheepfold.

Politics is and always has been the art of the possible, not the ideal.

What is going on here is neither art nor possible.

You know me well enough to know that I am not denigrating either principle or conviction. I AM calling for a correct and coherent application of them.

I find nothing coherent in rewarding a boorish ass for the slanderous means by which he gained his position.

[aligncare]

I only engage reality-based posters -- even those that disagree with me. Other than sink, however, I try not to engage with #NeverTrump. It's a waste of my time (I have a busy practice).

Their mind is closed to rational thought.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Smokin Joe

It's too much of a stretch to buy into the idea that a 70 year-old man suddenly changed all of his viewpoints...right in time to run for president.

"Right now I'm catering to the Republicans".----Trump in April of this year.

I agree with that.  I think Trump is going to be disappointing a lot of folks with his support for some things that we normally just see from Democrats.  For the most party, he is a typical East Coast Republican.

However, in a couple of key areas, I think there's a better than even chance he'll be better than Hillary, and zero chance he'll be worse.  One thing that very often does not get discussed in these threads is the power of the regulatory state, which is largely depending on cabinet appointments and how beholden the President is to an activist or anti-business agenda.  I think Trump certainly has a better grasp of the burden of regulation on businesses, and is much less likely to appoint cabinet secretaries like Loretta Lynch, Katherine Sebelius, or Burwell.  That's a big deal.

Another big deal to me is the push for social activism in the military.  Hillary is completely beholden to the feminist/LGBT community, and is going to continue Obama's policies of ramming that stuff down the throat of our military to our long term detriment.  Four more years of this stuff, and the entire brass is going to consist of people who either got their position because of their gender or sexual orientation, or who don't have a problem with that happening.  That kind of core rot will hit the foundations of the military and may not ever be dug out.

There is no sign Trump is going to do that, and the military brass that have supported him are from the more conservative end of the spectrum.  For all his flaws, he does seem to have the traditional "alpha male" quality that will not let him buy into that crap.  He'll have zero problem with macho, traditionalist generals who want to maintain a core warrior ethic.

Those may not be enough for some folks, but for me, it's plenty to support him over Hillary, despite his Rockefeller Republican leanings.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The ones who didn't answer the call when their country was calling, are the tRump supporters.  They are the ones who turned their back on this country and they are the ones who are and will be responsible for whatever is to come.

A lot of us answered our country's calling, went to the polls, and voted for someone else in the primary.  We lost, but we turned our back on nothing. 

Now, with the primaries concluded, we are faced with a choice between the only two candidates who have a legitimate shot at winning the election.  I do not think it is a betrayal of the country or conservative ideals to pick the candidate whom you believe will do the least damage to the conservative cause.  If you think they're equally bad, that's different.  But for those of us who do believe that one is worse than the other, we are betraying nothing by voting for that candidate, because the alternative is even worse.

I don't begrudge those who see Hillary as no worse than Trump, and so won't vote for either.  I disagree with that evaluation, but it is an honorable, logical vote nonetheless if that's how you see the two canddiates.  What I don't understand are those who see one as being worse, but refuse to vote for the other out of "principle".  The only "principle" that suggests to me is hubris/self-importance.

By the way, that "tRump" was a nice ad hominem.  Not everyone is capable of such juvenile "wit".

[aligncare]

Major, they're engaged in "major" virtue signaling...I find that disgusting. I served in Vietnam. My country is more important than my pride.

[aligncare]

After I'm dead and buried my children have to live with the decisions I made. My pride? Really? How selfish is that?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Major, they're engaged in "major" virtue signaling...I find that disgusting. I served in Vietnam. My country is more important than my pride.

@aligncare

I served as well in the Gulf.  And while I was furious at the way Trump conducted himself during the primary, and resolved not to vote for him, the fact was that was my temper speaking.  At this point, I can look at the two candidates and see a significant difference even though I like neither.  I am perhaps biased, but I deeply resent what the Obama Administration and Ray Nabus have done to my beloved Marine Corps, as well as the Navy.  There is absolutely zero chance Hillary will reverse any of that, and a good chance she'll accelerate it.  And if there's one thing I feel fairly confident with about Trump, it's that I think he will not ever pressure the military to lower standards just to accommodate political correctness.  That's enough for me, because I owe that much to my brothers and sisters still serving.  I will not sit by and do nothing while this country elects someone who is very likely to endorse/push policies that will get some of them killed in the name of "social justice".

I despise Trump as a man, but still conclude that he's the better choice.  I'm voting for him, and hope, rather desperately, that he defeats Hillary.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

After I'm dead and buried my children have to live with the decisions I made. My pride? Really? How selfish is that?

Amen, brother.  I'll walk through glass to give those still serving the best chance possible.  And while Trump is revolting on many levels, I see him as a "one hit wonder" whose impact will end the moment he disappears from the national stage.  Hillary is about solidifying the structural bias and power of the left, and her deeds will last long after she is gone because she is part of the progressive machine.  My kids are going to have to make it in whatever world is left to them, and I'd prefer that not be a constitutionally-mandated progressive "paradise".

[Night Hides Not]

I only engage reality-based posters -- even those that disagree with me. Other than sink, however, I try not to engage with #NeverTrump. It's a waste of my time (I have a busy practice).

Their mind is closed to rational thought.

"Modify" is your friend. Your last sentence is devoid of proper grammar...obviously a waste of your time.

I believe the last sentence should read, "Their minds are closed to rational thought."

 

There are only two types of voters that I argue with this year: Hillary voters and Stein voters. I'm hands-off with everyone else.

What I do take great umbrage with are those Trump supporters who equate a vote for Trump as "patriotic", and anything else is "treasonous".

Not only did I serve 8+ years in the Army, but I took up Reagan's mantle in 1980. 2-3 nights a week for two months, I was engaged in discussions with my German neighbors at the neighborhood gasthaus. They were convinced that Reagan would start WWIII, they pleaded with me to vote for Carter.

I was nearing the end of my 4th year in Germany, and my German skills were very conversational by then (I was often told I spoke without a trace of an accent). At the ripe old age of 26, I consistently and completely made the case for Reagan, in their tongue. Shortly after Inauguration Day, I was invited to sit at the stammtische, a table reserved for the family, and their closest friends. It's an honor I cherish to this day.

Today, if I was at the same place, I would find a lonely corner, and my response would likely be, "Nein, Ich nicht Deutsche sprechen."

Sorry, in my book, Trump is no Reagan...not even close.

[Wingnut]

*disconnects phone*

(Phone Ringing)
[Man:] "Hello?"
[Operator:] "Yes, a collect call for Donald Trump from The United States.
Will you accept the charges from the United States"
(Phone is Hung Up)
"He hung up. Is this your residence, sir?"
"I wonder why he hung up..."
"There must be someone else there
besides Him to answer."
(Phone Ringing)
[Man:] "Hello?"
[Operator:] "This is the United States calling."
"Are we reaching....?"
(Phone is Hung Up)
"See he keeps hanging up."
"But it's a man answering."
(Operator cuts connection)

[Maj. Bill Martin]

(Phone Ringing)
[Man:] "Hello?"
[Operator:] "Yes, a collect call for Donald Trump from The United States.
Will you accept the charges from the United States"
(Phone is Hung Up)
"He hung up. Is this your residence, sir?"
"I wonder why he hung up..."
"There must be someone else there
besides Him to answer."
(Phone Ringing)
[Man:] "Hello?"
[Operator:] "This is the United States calling."
"Are we reaching....?"
(Phone is Hung Up)
"See he keeps hanging up."
"But it's a man answering."
(Operator cuts connection)

Nice reference.

Overrated album, though.

[Wingnut]

Nice reference.

Overrated album, though.

Thanks.   

I agree. 

[INVAR]

Back to the OP - I posted this on the original thread that carried Shapiro's piece about the 'end of Conservatism':


Sorry Ben.


That is like asking the rhetorical question: Have we reached the end of Christianity?

Conservatism is a morality-based way of thinking and behaving - and runs in concert with the biblical heritage our Founders bequeathed us.

Christ Himself said the entire world would hate us for His Name's sake - and persecute us and kill us, which at the end of the age would appear that Christianity is at it's end - but we are told the gates of the grave will not prevail over it.

In the end, we win.

Not by the hands of men. 

Nations collapse and come to ruin when they reach the place this country is arriving at.  That a people eschew the very foundations that established it simply hastens it's destruction - but the mindset and principles remain, even if in the hearts and minds of a handful.

[LMAO]

Nice reference.

Overrated album, though.

Dark Side of the Moon was much better

[Night Hides Not]

Amen, brother.  I'll walk through glass to give those still serving the best chance possible.  And while Trump is revolting on many levels, I see him as a "one hit wonder" whose impact will end the moment he disappears from the national stage.  Hillary is about solidifying the structural bias and power of the left, and her deeds will last long after she is gone because she is part of the progressive machine.  My kids are going to have to make it in whatever world is left to them, and I'd prefer that not be a constitutionally-mandated progressive "paradise".

I appreciate your viewpoint, Major. IMO, Clinton Inc. ends with Bill, even if Hillary makes it to the White House. She is not liked, and nearly 2/3 of Americans don't trust her.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Dark Side of the Moon was much better

So was Wish You Were Here.  The Wall has too much of Water's cynicism/angst/self-indulgence for my tastes.

[Wingnut]

Dark Side of the Moon was much better

I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us are. It's very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad.

Summed every thing up for me.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I appreciate your viewpoint, Major. IMO, Clinton Inc. ends with Bill, even if Hillary makes it to the White House. She is not liked, and nearly 2/3 of Americans don't trust her.

I agree with that.  But the only reason she'd win is because the progressive/Democrat machine backs her, and they back her because they know it will keep them in power.  She, herself, is a small person.  It's everyone she'd bring with her, and all the things she'd continue, that are the problem for me.

[jmyrlefuller]

Earth to NeverTrump! Your country is calling.

A Darrell Castle vote might make you feel good about yourself -- Rush Limbaugh famously notes how the hallmark of liberal thinking is self affirmation and self esteem -- but that won't stop Hillary.

Darrell Castle is a wasted vote.

The way her health is going, we might not have to worry about Hillary, will we? So not voting for Trump, even in this narrow viewpoint that any action not voting for Trump is a vote for Hillary, gives us "NeitherNors" the best chance of not getting either one of them.

Now, I'm not voting Castle. For one, he's not on the ballot here anyway, and two, I'm likely voting Johnson (likely since I still believe in a secret ballot and just might change my mind come election day) since he's in third place and I want to see him siphon off some electoral votes. But we are not delusional: we have a plan. It might be a longshot, we know, but no more of a longshot than expecting Donald Trump to move the country in the right direction. JMHO.

[Axel]

Might want to tell that to your compatriots who are promising to kill us for treason because we refuse to vote for your prince.

They probably wouldn't consider you treasonous if this place weren't branded as a forum for Republicans.

[Night Hides Not]

So was Wish You Were Here.  The Wall has too much of Water's cynicism/angst/self-indulgence for my tastes.

I wish Warren Zevon were alive today. I'm sure he'd have something to say about this election season, whether I'd agree with him or not.

[aligncare]

They probably wouldn't consider you treasonous if this place weren't branded as a forum for Republicans.

He's delusional. Say anything to him and he begins a rant on the voices he hears in his head.