Author Topic: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers  (Read 25527 times)

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Silver Pines

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2016, 03:10:01 pm »
Only two choices:

The red pill.
Or the blue pill.

You chose one of the two!

@unknown

So explain it to me.

How is it that voting for neither isn't a choice?   When did we become compelled to vote?  Will people come to our house with guns and shepherd us to the polling place? 


Offline Longmire

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2016, 03:11:12 pm »
I'm with #reluctanttrump. Unless he bleep up badly, he has my vote. But I don't "support" him and won't defend him.

 goopo Can't argue with that logic.


Offline austingirl

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #27 on: September 11, 2016, 03:19:09 pm »
I am not a never Trumper and will probably vote for him.  But I wouldn't characterize myself as a reluctant Trumper either.  That implies a degree of support I do not have for Trump.  Its more a never Hilary thing....  If it wasn't for the supreme court I would just sit this one out. But I know Hillary will 100% chose Supremes that will destroy the country, Trump only has a 90% chance of making a disaster of a choice.....   I will pull the lever and go home and take a shower,

Hitlery has already demonstrated disregard for national security- we know 100% that she destabilized the Mideast and cost American lives.
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Offline Axel

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #28 on: September 11, 2016, 03:24:14 pm »
Personally,  I believe a Trump presidency will very possibly damage the conservative brand for decades making future REAL conservative presidents difficult.

Care to explain your reasoning? Obviously this is all speculative...

Trump is doing well among independents, and Republican registration is up in key swing states. It seems to me the Supreme Court will be the most important for the preserving the "conservative brand", and we know what will happen if Hillary gets to pick and choose.

Just like the progressives will be trying to pull Hillary to the left, we need to get Trump in office and keep the pressure on him to stay to the right.
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Offline JustPassinThru

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2016, 03:25:57 pm »
I'm with #reluctanttrump. Unless he bleep up badly, he has my vote. But I don't "support" him and won't defend him.

Agreed.

For those who claim that choice is an illusion...they're right in the result, but not in the mechanics.  Yes, of course, input on the ground is limited.  Party insiders control the first steps; and this go-round, controlled the primary processes even to rigging it...both sides.

That's not NWO plutocracy; that's the role political parties play and always have.  What is DIFFERENT is how the Elites have come to be so removed from the Little People.  They now reject the principles of the American Founding - BOTH sides do.  The Republicans reject their base.  The Democrats are further along in this process - they have nothing but contempt for their base and have for a long time; this even though their base wants what they want, bloated, unchecked government.

The Political Elites who control the Republican Party have more in common with their purported opponents in the other party, than they do with their base.  Trump wasn't their choice but to them he's a compromise choice - and as they see it, losing is as good as winning.  They want Statism and growth of government; and the flavor of it is of secondary concern.  Trump they can do business with.

Which is why they helped him, allowed him, to game the primary.

But to an objective voter, the one is FAR more dangerous than the other.  Trump is merely stupid; and of late he at least has some solid advisers and prompters.  His foreign policy speeches have been very, very good of late.  I'm reminded in some ways of George W. Bush:  Bush was no conservative but he appealed to conservatives - and he did not forget what he owed them, either, until the last months.  Much of the conservative agenda was put forth, even if reluctantly.

That may be what we get with Trump.  We don't get much; but the dying, deranged, corrupt-to-the-core old cow on the other side is TRULY dangerous on SO MANY levels.  Both in her obvious health issues, her natural tendencies, her lifelong incompetence and MISERABLE judgment calls.

I have a lot of respect for some of the NeverTrump posters here; but this is where the rubber meets the road.  This dying old bat has to be STOPPED, and her backers, promoters, handlers and puppetmasters blocked.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2016, 03:27:06 pm »
Care to explain your reasoning? Obviously this is all speculative...

Trump is doing well among independents, and Republican registration is up in key swing states. It seems to me the Supreme Court will be the most important for the preserving the "conservative brand", and we know what will happen if Hillary gets to pick and choose.

Just like the progressives will be trying to pull Hillary to the left, we need to get Trump in office and keep the pressure on him to stay to the right.

That you think "we" can be successful at that is the height of naivete.  Trump doesn't listen to his campaign manager; why would he listen to you?
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2016, 03:27:17 pm »
Only two choices:

The red pill.
Or the blue pill.

You chose one of the two!

It is funny how a certain demographic is often chided for being on the Democrat Plantation. How the inevitable promises are made to the members of that group, and how those promises generally fail to be fulfilled unless they are done so in the most destructive way possible. No matter how dissatisfied, short of rioting in the streets, the Democrats do what they will, knowing that they will have the votes of that demographic, regardless. The assumption is even that another demographic, perhaps a couple of them will also end up on that same Democrat Plantation, primarily because they have been convinced no one else can meet the 'unique' needs of their community, and that only the Democrats will hear their voice.


Interesting, too, that all these years as Republican candidates continue to pay lip service to Conservative causes, the stance and actions of the Republican party continues to morph leftward, not back toward the Constitutional Republic the Republicans pay lip service to (usually, at least until election night is over). Those within the GOP who actually do champion Conservative causes end up vilified, for not going along to get along. These last four years, with rare exception, there was only token resistance to Obama's policies, and almost no resistance to fully funding his programs. Instead of exercising the power of the purse, the GOP couldn't shove our, our children's, our Grand children's, our Great grandchildren's money out the door fast enough to support the follies of this administration.

For the last few decades, the GOP has decided it has a right to the votes of those Conservative voters it throws under the bus because they (allegedly) have no place else to go. Conservatives have reluctantly bought that nonsense, lined up and pulled the lever for the "R", because if they don't, OMG! the Democrats will give away the farm! Even as the Republicans were. 

If Conservatives even get so much as a little token lip service, they witness again as their rights are diminished, no matter who is in charge. Control of the Congress has meant little resistance from the Party as a whole, and only a few have fought for Conservative causes there, and are savaged by party leadership for their efforts. Most have readily caved in to the liberal policies of Obama.

At least the Democrat Party gives free stuff to their 'captive' voters, giving the illusion of being a benefactor. The GOP continues to take away from conservatives in theirs. Neither party does those groups any good, at best tossing scraps and bones from the table they feast at, while they get truly wealthy at the expense of our blood and treasure.

It's funny we so readily see the Democrat Plantation, but have refused to see the GOP Plantation.

If we're going to get our Constitutional Republic back, it has become obvious that neither the Democrat Party not the Republican Party will sanction that goal. Both engage in the accumulation and usurpation of power, strengthening a central and increasingly totalitarian government at the expense of the Rights of the States and the People.

You are free, once again, with another candidate more liberal than the last, to attempt to salvage the Republic by voting for that one over the other Liberal candidate who is another is an endless progression of boogeymen, each a little worse than the last, to get you to vote for the one who is just a little bit lesser evil. I do not see that achieving the objective if the objective is a return to a Constitutional Republic, I just see it as yet another step in the wrong direction.

If you feel bound to give your vote to that in an effort to stop the one who would take you in that wrong direction a little faster, well, it's your vote, your conscience.

I don't think pulling that same lever, hitting that same button will produce a different result than it has in these past 28 years, at least not the result I have been voting for. It is past time to cut those philosophical chains which have bound me to the GOP and voting for lesser evils. If not now, when? The next election? There are even worse Marxist boogeymen to throw up to encourage voters to vote for the lesser evil, by which time we will have lost more rights.

If I am to lose those rights through the machinations of the major parties' leadership, it will happen without my sanction. I will at least spend the rest of my days advocating for another choice, for freedom from either Plantation, and for a return to our Constitutional Republic.

It will take time, it will take work, and it will not be something which will bring the heady instantaneous gratification of winning major elections in the next 4, 8, even 12 years, but the steps to freedom are first to cut the chains and get off the plantation, and that applies, no matter which plantation you've been on.

Castle (Constitution Party) 2016
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2016, 03:43:14 pm »
I can't find enough value in Trump to make the choice clear cut for me, but I can't fault you for weighing the two options and finding Trump to be the least worst choice.  It's a tough call , but if you can vote for Trump and wash your conscience with a shower consider yourself lucky...as deciding to not vote against Hitlery has haunted me for months and nothing can wash my guilty soul clean.
If you don't buy the kids candy today, but take that money and put it into their college fund where it will grow for their future, do you feel guilty? (perhaps, they're kids, after all, but you get over it knowing you have invested in their future).
This year, my vote goes to invest in the future. I don't expect huge results right away, in fact, those results will take time, and will depend on others like me investing in their futures as well. It is evident that neither the GOP nor the Democrats are going to return this country to the Constitutional Republic it should be. That Republic is our legacy to our progeny, to discard, destroy, or recover and strengthen, as we will. They will bless us for it or curse the mention of our name. The wailing and whining of today, put in that future historical perspective pales in comparison to the praise for having the wisdom to make that investment.
Consider, of the larger of the 70 odd "third" parties, there is one which makes its platform on the Constitution of the United States of America. On stripping the Federal Government of those powers it has usurped and returning them to the States and to the People. That would, of necessity, reduce the size and scope of the Federal Government, returning it to the duties the Founders envisioned. That is a far more attractive starting point than any Party which would require a major ideological overhaul to get back in line with that aim.
Please take a look at Darrell Castle and the Constitution Party, and consider that investment.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Axel

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2016, 03:59:10 pm »
If you don't buy the kids candy today, but take that money and put it into their college fund where it will grow for their future, do you feel guilty? (perhaps, they're kids, after all, but you get over it knowing you have invested in their future).
This year, my vote goes to invest in the future. I don't expect huge results right away, in fact, those results will take time, and will depend on others like me investing in their futures as well. It is evident that neither the GOP nor the Democrats are going to return this country to the Constitutional Republic it should be. That Republic is our legacy to our progeny, to discard, destroy, or recover and strengthen, as we will. They will bless us for it or curse the mention of our name. The wailing and whining of today, put in that future historical perspective pales in comparison to the praise for having the wisdom to make that investment.
Consider, of the larger of the 70 odd "third" parties, there is one which makes its platform on the Constitution of the United States of America. On stripping the Federal Government of those powers it has usurped and returning them to the States and to the People. That would, of necessity, reduce the size and scope of the Federal Government, returning it to the duties the Founders envisioned. That is a far more attractive starting point than any Party which would require a major ideological overhaul to get back in line with that aim.
Please take a look at Darrell Castle and the Constitution Party, and consider that investment.

Its a noble and respectable goal to want a party that advances the constitution and I don't disagree. Still, I think your best bet is within the Republican Party. There's a reason Ron and Rand Paul both ran as Republicans, and it has nothing to do with ideology.
"The Gutter Rat's going to continue to trash Romney, and Romney's going to tell the country why he should be president.

And Romney is going to win" - Sinkspur's incredible insight into the 2012 election

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2016, 04:11:02 pm »
Its a noble and respectable goal to want a party that advances the constitution and I don't disagree. Still, I think your best bet is within the Republican Party. There's a reason Ron and Rand Paul both ran as Republicans, and it has nothing to do with ideology.
The Pauls, King, Lee, Cruz, and others have used the GOP vehicle to get into office. When they have taken a stand on matters of principle, however, the members of their own party have fought them, shunned them, and that may be the way to the front gate, but it still isn't a path to victory. It doesn't get the support for ideas that should be organic to the party, but is instead applied as 'organics' to the voters every election year, and forgotten by the candidates upon being elected.

That isn't "winning". If we are going to succeed in returning America to a constitutional Republic it will take something that will confront both wings of the Uniparty, bolster the demands of those within it for that Return to the Republic, but even more, rock the very foundations of the concept that the GOP has its own plantation of Conservative voters who have no place else to go.
As long as Conservatives are believed to be a captive voting bloc, Conservatives, and any Conservative option which stands in the way of the personal accrual of wealth and power by those on Capitol Hill or in the government in general will be viewed with contempt.

Without that option, without a viable third party, the other two will have no reason to deviate from the path they are on, the one which is destroying the Republic and turning it into an Oligarchy.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Taxcontrol

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2016, 04:24:45 pm »
I'm voting for Castle, and I like the Constitution Party platform. I have no faith either of the major parties will return to a Constitutional Republic in my lifetime, and want to build a party which would do so.

I am voting for Castle as well.  Working the family and neighbors as well.  After 20+ years of faithfully working for the GOP, this convention showed me that the problem was the party.  So i changed my affiliation.  Now that I have a candidate that I can support, I have a much lower stress level.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2016, 04:33:45 pm »
I am voting for Castle as well.  Working the family and neighbors as well.  After 20+ years of faithfully working for the GOP, this convention showed me that the problem was the party.  So i changed my affiliation.  Now that I have a candidate that I can support, I have a much lower stress level.
888high58888 No moral conflict, no feeling of being manipulated...again, none of that 'still going in the wrong direction' remorse. It's nice, isn't it?

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2016, 04:41:57 pm »
Agreed.

For those who claim that choice is an illusion...they're right in the result, but not in the mechanics.  Yes, of course, input on the ground is limited.  Party insiders control the first steps; and this go-round, controlled the primary processes even to rigging it...both sides.

That's not NWO plutocracy; that's the role political parties play and always have.  What is DIFFERENT is how the Elites have come to be so removed from the Little People.  They now reject the principles of the American Founding - BOTH sides do.  The Republicans reject their base.  The Democrats are further along in this process - they have nothing but contempt for their base and have for a long time; this even though their base wants what they want, bloated, unchecked government.

The Political Elites who control the Republican Party have more in common with their purported opponents in the other party, than they do with their base.  Trump wasn't their choice but to them he's a compromise choice - and as they see it, losing is as good as winning.  They want Statism and growth of government; and the flavor of it is of secondary concern.  Trump they can do business with.

Which is why they helped him, allowed him, to game the primary.

But to an objective voter, the one is FAR more dangerous than the other.  Trump is merely stupid; and of late he at least has some solid advisers and prompters.  His foreign policy speeches have been very, very good of late.  I'm reminded in some ways of George W. Bush:  Bush was no conservative but he appealed to conservatives - and he did not forget what he owed them, either, until the last months.  Much of the conservative agenda was put forth, even if reluctantly.

That may be what we get with Trump.  We don't get much; but the dying, deranged, corrupt-to-the-core old cow on the other side is TRULY dangerous on SO MANY levels.  Both in her obvious health issues, her natural tendencies, her lifelong incompetence and MISERABLE judgment calls.

I have a lot of respect for some of the NeverTrump posters here; but this is where the rubber meets the road.  This dying old bat has to be STOPPED, and her backers, promoters, handlers and puppetmasters blocked.
Yep the old bat is evil. No doubt about it. Her competence (even at being evil) is questionable.

He, on the other hand, has shown some degree of competence, but stupid isn't the sort of thing we need at high levels either. Stupid, vindictive, not willing to wait on facts or to act in spite of them (as evidenced by the attacks on Heidi Cruz for Liz Mair's pro-Rubio/anti-trump PAC ad using stock GQ photos) and lie about the reasons for the attack and double down on it. That is a disturbing character trait.
Not the little hands I want near the nuclear football.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Axel

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2016, 04:49:18 pm »
The Pauls, King, Lee, Cruz, and others have used the GOP vehicle to get into office. When they have taken a stand on matters of principle, however, the members of their own party have fought them, shunned them, and that may be the way to the front gate, but it still isn't a path to victory. It doesn't get the support for ideas that should be organic to the party, but is instead applied as 'organics' to the voters every election year, and forgotten by the candidates upon being elected.

That isn't "winning". If we are going to succeed in returning America to a constitutional Republic it will take something that will confront both wings of the Uniparty, bolster the demands of those within it for that Return to the Republic, but even more, rock the very foundations of the concept that the GOP has its own plantation of Conservative voters who have no place else to go.
As long as Conservatives are believed to be a captive voting bloc, Conservatives, and any Conservative option which stands in the way of the personal accrual of wealth and power by those on Capitol Hill or in the government in general will be viewed with contempt.

Without that option, without a viable third party, the other two will have no reason to deviate from the path they are on, the one which is destroying the Republic and turning it into an Oligarchy.

The Paul's know that a viable third party will never exist in America, at least not on a national level. National campaigns unfortunately require entirely too much money for a viable third party candidate. Perhaps just as big of an obstacle to the money is also the electoral process. Winner-take-all elections necessarily make it more difficult for minority parties to grow.

Your only chance with a third party is on the local level and even that will take a massive amount of campaigning and organizing, not just casting a vote. You're talking about a "path to victory" but right now you have a pipe dream to victory at best. I still think conservatism's only chance is through the Republican Party.
"The Gutter Rat's going to continue to trash Romney, and Romney's going to tell the country why he should be president.

And Romney is going to win" - Sinkspur's incredible insight into the 2012 election

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2016, 05:19:44 pm »
The Paul's know that a viable third party will never exist in America, at least not on a national level. National campaigns unfortunately require entirely too much money for a viable third party candidate. Perhaps just as big of an obstacle to the money is also the electoral process. Winner-take-all elections necessarily make it more difficult for minority parties to grow.

Your only chance with a third party is on the local level and even that will take a massive amount of campaigning and organizing, not just casting a vote. You're talking about a "path to victory" but right now you have a pipe dream to victory at best. I still think conservatism's only chance is through the Republican Party.
I respectfully disagree. In the past 24 years, what advances had the GOP made toward a more Constitutional Government? How has it caused the Federal government to become smaller or less expensive? How has it reduced the welfare rolls? How has it reduced the scope of Federal Power? Better secured the southern border? Reduced the population of illegal immigrants? Repealed Hillary/Romney/Obamacare? Reduced the deficit and the National Debt?

It hasn't. Much of that was enacted either with the full support of or in spite of token resistance by the GOP.

If Conservatives had put their efforts and treasure into a third party with a solid Constitution based Platform over those 24 years, maybe we'd be closer to the goals instead of farther away.

It's like the Obama administration saying 'it'll take ten years to produce that oil, so we shouldn't even start" when we moved the US to the top oil producing country in the world in less time.

If you don't start somewhere, it won't happen, and the GOP has still been going the wrong way.

This year the GOP and GOP voters rejected the most Conservative candidate. It isn't "butthurt" that compels my decision, it is reading the obvious signs. Like finding a girlfriend in bed with another guy, it's pretty obvious the relationship is over. Continuing to support that is the equivalent of being cuckolded.

No thanks. YMMV
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

geronl

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2016, 07:26:25 pm »
Vote for Trump if you want.

But if you trash those who find the turd too filthy to touch, you are a nasty person.

If you abandon your principles and tout Trump as if he were the second coming, then you are a moron.


geronl

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2016, 07:33:38 pm »
I'm with #reluctanttrump. Unless he bleep up badly, he has my vote. But I don't "support" him and won't defend him.

A social liberal, moral degenerate who espouses bigger stimulus than FDR.... what exactly would he have to do to lose your vote.

Offline Eowyn

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2016, 07:48:19 pm »
I'm voting for Trump because Hillary does no deserve to be President.  She may be above the law, unlike the rest of us,  but we can still have the power to deny the elitist witch the Presidency which she has coveted for decades.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 07:50:52 pm by Eowyn »

Offline JustPassinThru

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2016, 07:49:30 pm »
Yep the old bat is evil. No doubt about it. Her competence (even at being evil) is questionable.

He, on the other hand, has shown some degree of competence, but stupid isn't the sort of thing we need at high levels either. Stupid, vindictive, not willing to wait on facts or to act in spite of them (as evidenced by the attacks on Heidi Cruz for Liz Mair's pro-Rubio/anti-trump PAC ad using stock GQ photos) and lie about the reasons for the attack and double down on it. That is a disturbing character trait.
Not the little hands I want near the nuclear football.

I don't disagree with any of that; but at this point, that off-ramp has been passed.

It's down to these two.  Bad or much, much worse.

To understand how much worse, just consider what happened today.  An obvious seizure and collapse, while leaning against a post waiting for the ambulance/shuttle to pick her up.  In that searing 79-degree heat.

She's sick; she's weak; she's demented - look at her stupid, tactless comments this weekend.  And this.

It is what it is.  I can understand those who choose to not play; but I think at this point the stakes are too high for me to even participate in that sort of high-mindedness.

geronl

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2016, 07:51:00 pm »
I'm voting for Trump because Hillary does no deserve to be President.  She may be above the law, but American voters can still deny her the Presidency that she has coveted for decades.

Trump does not deserve to be President either.

geronl

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #45 on: September 11, 2016, 07:53:45 pm »
Those who celebrate her illness are "deplorables". They love the attention though.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2016, 07:54:39 pm »
I can understand those who choose to not play; but I think at this point the stakes are too high for me to even participate in that sort of high-mindedness.
That's what keeps the game going. If the lesser evil argument won't sway the day, ramp it up another notch. I'm not blaming you, personally, by all means vote your conscience.
I'm just seeing the whole charade for what it is.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #47 on: September 11, 2016, 07:58:45 pm »
Vote for Trump if you want.

But if you trash those who find the turd too filthy to touch, you are a nasty person.

If you abandon your principles and tout Trump as if he were the second coming, then you are a moron.




I don't trash anyone. Your vote is your own, and so are your reasons.

Just let it be known that not all who pull the Trump lever in November think he's even a great candidate. Would rather have preferred Cruz.

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #48 on: September 11, 2016, 07:59:30 pm »
Here's where I disagree. I haven't made up my mind to vote for Trump or a write-in (Cruz), but I'm leaning write-in.
Nevertheless, many times things come down to choosing the lesser of two evils. Of the two, Trump is arguably a little less evil than Clinton.
People who are begrudgingly voting for Trump are trying to choose which one will do the least harm to the Republic. As it will be either Clinton or Trump, I can't begrudge a person voting for Trump hoping he will do less harm than Hillary.
Personally,  I believe a Trump presidency will very possibly damage the conservative brand for decades making future REAL conservative presidents difficult.
My wife, who is voting for Trump (because of Hillary) is trying to hold me to my promise of always voting for the lesser of two evils, but still voting. Voting for Clinton is out of the question. I just can't get my mind around the idea of pulling the lever for Trump.

There is no such thing as a lesser evil. There is evil or there isn't.

People that spend months handwringing over Trump only to vote for him come election day are no different or no better than the fanatics that helped trump trash Cruz, No better or no different than the Gay Agenda supporters that were fine with a woman rotting in jail over her faith, no different than any of the myrad things Trump and his fanatical minions represent.

And thats a 100% dead set fact because voting for the man empowers all those things. So you can chose the evil he represents or you can stand on the principles of this country and if Christian, those of your faith and reject it. People that support evil are evil. No level of rhetoric or justification will ever change that fact.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Never-Trumpers vs. Reluctant Trumpers
« Reply #49 on: September 11, 2016, 08:02:43 pm »
There is no such thing as a lesser evil. There is evil or there isn't.

People that spend months handwringing over Trump only to vote for him come election day are no different or no better than the fanatics that helped trump trash Cruz, No better or no different than the Gay Agenda supporters that were fine with a woman rotting in jail over her faith, no different than any of the myrad things Trump and his fanatical minions represent.

And thats a 100% dead set fact because voting for the man empowers all those things. So you can chose the evil he represents or you can stand on the principles of this country and if Christian, those of your faith and reject it. People that support evil are evil. No level of rhetoric or justification will ever change that fact.

Rewarding evil with your vote only begets more evil.  If there is anything we should have learned by now that is it.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 08:03:09 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien