Author Topic: Mike Pence: "Inarguable" that Putin is a "stronger leader" than President Obama  (Read 5139 times)

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Offline TomSea

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Mike Pence: "Inarguable" that Putin is a "stronger leader" than President Obama

SIMI VALLEY, CA - Republican vice presidential candidate Mike Pence defended running mate Donald Trump’s assertion that Vladimir Putin was a stronger leader than President Obama on Thursday.

“I think it’s inarguable that Vladimir Putin has been a stronger leader in his country than Barack Obama has been in this country,” Pence told CNN’s Dana Bash in an interview.
Trump's comments on Putin spark outrage
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Trump's comments on Putin spark outrage

“Barack Obama has a true democracy here with the Congress that pushes back because there’s checks and balances.  Vladimir Putin doesn’t have that,” Bash said immediately pushing back. “That’s exactly right,” Pence acknowledged adding, “And Donald Trump said last night, he doesn’t particularly like the system.”   

Trump made the claim that Putin had “been a leader, far more than our president has been a leader,” at a security forum sponsored by NBC on Wednesday featuring both presidential candidates. The Republican nominee did however state that Russia had a “very different system” and that he didn’t “like the system.”

Later Trump stated about Putin, “If he says great things about me, I’m going to say great things about him.”

More At: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mike-pence-inarguable-that-putin-is-a-stronger-leader-than-president-obama/

Versus the political hay some are making this.

Offline catfish1957

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Versus the political hay some are making this.

Reagan would be blasting Trump to smithereens, for these stupid Russian aligning comments.  Any GOP member agreeing, is doing at their future career peril.  (Psssst psssst...Mike Pence)
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Offline ABX

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Versus the political hay some are making this.

I am failing to see the positive in praising a system that doesn't have checks and balances (and not 'doesn’t particularly like the system' (aka our alternative with checks and balances)) praising strength based on what a thug oligarch does (killing reporters, shutting down media and negative pollsters, etc), and worse of all “If he says great things about me, I’m going to say great things about him” showing a juvenile view that his opinion and statements on the matter is based on how nice someone talks about him.

I guess this does go back to the authoritarian split I've discussed many times where it seems half on the right just want 'our own dictator'.

Offline guitar4jesus

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These guys really need to drop this...

Offline endicom

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Putin is a stronger leader than Obama. But we're not (yet) a strongman state so we should want strong leaders only when facing genuine threats requiring collective responses.

Offline ABX

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Reagan would be blasting Trump to smithereens, for these stupid Russian aligning comments.  Any GOP member agreeing, is doing at their future career peril.  (Psssst psssst...Mike Pence)

Totally bizarro world this election cycle.

Offline ABX

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Putin is a stronger leader than Obama. But we're not (yet) a strongman state so we should want strong leaders only when facing genuine threats requiring collective responses.

Strong does not mean good but they put this in the context as though strong for strong's sake is good when compared to our weak leader. There was absolutely no need to go there. Hell, by comparison of Obama, Stalin was a strong leader. Does that mean we are going to say positive things about Stalin or even mention him? 

I'm trying to figure out what the bleep they are trying to do here, unless they really do think the voters just want our own strong arm oligarch (and reading some comments around the web, that may be the case)... maybe they really do think our side just wants our own guy 'with a pen and a phone' who will force things to happen- pesky Constitution and checks & balances be damned.

Offline EdJames

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Putin is a stronger leader than Obama. But we're not (yet) a strongman state so we should want strong leaders only when facing genuine threats requiring collective responses.

Putin is a stronger leader than Obama.

That is a hard judgement to make, in my opinion.

It requires an accurate understanding of the goals that each leader is actually trying to achieve.

I don't believe that is an easy assessment to make for the reason that it is extremely rare that any of us common men and women are ever able to read/hear objective truth on these matters.  Do we get truth about the score of last evening's NFL game?  Sure.  Do we get the truth about now many inches of rain fell in Louisiana on a given day?  Pretty much.

Do we get the truth (meaning unfiltered, clear objective facts that are not tinged to support an agenda) about more important news and events?  Rarely.

Offline sinkspur

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Putin is a stronger leader than Obama. But we're not (yet) a strongman state so we should want strong leaders only when facing genuine threats requiring collective responses.

In what ways is Putin a strong leader?

Is Russia's economy doomed to collapse?

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/russias-economy-doomed-collapse-16821

« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 03:47:42 pm by sinkspur »
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline catfish1957

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In what ways is Putin a strong leader?

I guess in the same way Stalin was a strong leader.  Wonder what Trump thinks of WWII era dictators?
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline ABX

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This brings up another interesting question; what is strong?

Is someone strong if they have to murder political rivals and shut down the press if they speak poorly of that person?

Or, is that person ultimately weak either emotionally or intellectually so they have to use brute strength and power to force their will because, when they get down to it, they aren't actually a strong leader?

Does a strong leader need to force his will or do people want to follow him?
Does a strong leader have to force people to believe what he says by shutting down opposing thought or can he make his case without it?
Does a strong leader have to shut down dissent that doesn't make him look good or can he overcome it through leadership skills?

They are confusing strong with force.



Offline sinkspur

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This is a totalitarian formulation
 
Kellyanne Conway
‏@KellyannePolls Kellyanne Conway Retweeted FOX & Friends
He's built a movement and people are proud to be a part of it. When you insult him, you insult them.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline r9etb

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I guess in the same way Stalin was a strong leader.  Wonder what Trump thinks of WWII era dictators?

It's not really a relevant question, if you put it that way.

The relevant question is this: how would a President Trump deal with "strong leaders" of the Putin variety?

The answer is almost certainly that he'd deal with them, by making deals with them -- it's what Trump does. 

This would most likely be a bad thing, as Trump's attention span is short and his business dealings seem to be a lot more focused on short term goals than on long-term strategic interests. 

Somebody as focused and unscrupulous as Putin would run circles around him -- "let me take this one more tiny bit of Ukraine in exchange for coordinated air support in Syria." 

Offline endicom

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In what ways is Putin a strong leader?

Is Russia's economy doomed to collapse?

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/russias-economy-doomed-collapse-16821


The strongest leaders lead their led to doom. FDR was a strong leader but in a system that held him in check. Putin is obviously less checked and shows no sign of improving the Russian economy. But Russia is oligarchical with a Yeltsin or a Putin so some radical change will be needed to improve the Russian economy.




Offline guitar4jesus

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This is a totalitarian formulation
 
Kellyanne Conway
‏@KellyannePolls Kellyanne Conway Retweeted FOX & Friends
He's built a movement and people are proud to be a part of it. When you insult him, you insult them.

Hoo boy...

Offline XenaLee

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Reagan would be blasting Trump to smithereens, for these stupid Russian aligning comments.  Any GOP member agreeing, is doing at their future career peril.  (Psssst psssst...Mike Pence)

It's idiotic to compare Obama to Putin ....since Putin, unlike Obama, does not hate the country he has been elected to lead.  Obama doesn't give a damn about America...so why 'would' he be a strong leader for America.  He is being weak to help destroy America as payback for all of the bad America has done....in his warped little mind.

That is what, if anything, the conversation should be about.  But even Pence is too politically correct to say it like it really is.
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Offline sinkspur

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The strongest leaders lead their led to doom. FDR was a strong leader but in a system that held him in check. Putin is obviously less checked and shows no sign of improving the Russian economy. But Russia is oligarchical with a Yeltsin or a Putin so some radical change will be needed to improve the Russian economy.

That's a failed leader to me.  Hitler looked strong, didn't he, when he put a gun in his mouth?
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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Putin is so strong the ruble has fallen 50% since he took office in 2012:

Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline ABX

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I know a lot of people like Putin because he hates the gays and is re-establishing the State church, so let's take it out of Russia and talk about a dictator nobody likes. Can you imagine the uproar if Trump or Pence said this about Kim Jong Un? "...(he is strong), you’ve got to give him credit. How many young guys — he was like 26 or 25 when his father died — take over these tough generals.”... “He goes in, he takes over, and he’s the boss. It’s incredible. He wiped out the uncle. He wiped out this one, that one. I mean, this guy doesn’t play games."

Do you think anyone would find it acceptable to talk about that dictator this way?

Offline r9etb

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It's idiotic to compare Obama to Putin ....since Putin, unlike Obama, does not hate the country he has been elected to lead.  Obama doesn't give a damn about America...so why 'would' he be a strong leader for America.  He is being weak to help destroy America as payback for all of the bad America has done....in his warped little mind.

This is roughly correct, though the full truth of it is a lot more complex for both Putin and Obama.  Really, I think a major motive for both of them is a need for self-aggrandizement, driven by their respective ideological foundations: Russian nationalism for Putin, and leftist twaddle for Obama.

The major difference between them is that Putin is a cynical realist, whereas Obama is a juvenile idealist -- which the whole world now understands (hence Obama's embarrassment at the G20 summit).

Quote
That is what, if anything, the conversation should be about.  But even Pence is too politically correct to say it like it really is.

I think we're long past any discussion of Obama, actually.  The question we have to ask now is: how will the next president deal with Putin, the Middle East, China, Europe, domestic issues, and so on.... all of which are going to come together, crashing through the Oval Office door on 22 January 2017?

I think we have a fair sense of how Trump will deal with them: a rash and irresponsible initial engagement followed by a deal of some sort, with a primary focus on short-term goals.

I'm not sure how Clinton would deal with them, but I think her actions would be driven primarily by graft, as seems to be her constant MO.  At any rate, I suspect she'd collapse under the strain within a year.


Offline r9etb

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Putin is so strong the ruble has fallen 50% since he took office in 2012:

There's strong and strong. 

If you want to judge by the ruble, then you have to take into account the price of petroleum -- the world's oil economy has been turned on its head by the American fracking revolution.  And, because Russia's export economy depends so much on oil, of course the ruble is going to be affected.

On the other hand, in terms of geopolitical influence, Putin is indeed strong.  He's restored Russia as a Great Power, and he's making important allies in the very regions where Obama has made us weak.  Putin is at least predictable: he's doing what Russian leaders have always done. 

That makes a nice contrast to the feckless and untrustworthy Obama, who has alienated our allies and left an utter mess wherever he has dealings.

Offline endicom

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That's a failed leader to me.  Hitler looked strong, didn't he, when he put a gun in his mouth?


Castro is a failed leader but a strong one. Failed because he created a socialist slave state oppressing the Cuban people. Strong because he's maintained his socialist slave state.

Or, looking from another angle, Castro is a successful, strong leader for wanting a slave state.

Offline NavyCanDo

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I don't disagree with what Trump said about Putin being a stronger leader than Obama. When it comes to leadership, Obama's bar is set real low.    The problem is Obama still has huge high-popularity numbers, and saying something like this can be ill advised. Especially after he has been trying to capture a larger portion of black voters. The News media and the Hillary campaign are capable of turning this back on Trump in a very negative way.  Just saying.
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Offline sinkspur

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Castro is a failed leader but a strong one. Failed because he created a socialist slave state oppressing the Cuban people. Strong because he's maintained his socialist slave state.

Or, looking from another angle, Castro is a successful, strong leader for wanting a slave state.

You and I both know, don't we, that that's not what Trump means with his comments about Putin.  He loves Putin's dictatorial style. 
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline sinkspur

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I don't disagree with what Trump said about Putin being a stronger leader than Obama. When it comes to leadership, Obama's bar is set real low.    The problem is Obama still has huge high-popularity numbers, and saying something like this can be ill advised. Especially after he has been trying to capture a larger portion of black voters. The News media and the Hillary campaign are capable of turning this back on Trump in a very negative way.  Just saying.

But what does it say about a large swath of Republicans who agree with Trump's praise of Putin?


Will Jordan
‏@williamjordann
PUTIN Net-Favorability (YouGov/Economist Poll) among...

Democrats
July 2014: -54
Aug 2016: -54

Republicans
July 2014: -66
Aug 2016: -27

Trumpism is a cult.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.