LEVIN: I'M VOTING FOR TRUMP ... HERE'S WHY

[Smokin Joe]

Get back to me when you want to do business in Democrat strongholds.     

Don't hold your breath. I work in the oil patch. If that becomes a Democrat stronghold, y'all can find your own.

[the_doc]

I fundamentally disagree that conservatives must choose between those two.  It is disaster either way.  On the individual level, you answer to God for that vote.    If he can live with owning Trump's words and actions in that powerful position for 4 years, great.  I can't.  Whatever it costs me -- if I perish, I perish -- I can't.

Amen.

[Smokin Joe]

NOW we are getting to the nub of things! 

Because I do business in one of those hell holes and have to do such things EVERYONE should!

I guess what he missed, is that I won't do business that way. If no one else did, it would not take feeding a criminal enterprise just to get work there. I won't do business that way, I'll shut down first.

[DiogenesLamp]

I have always voted Republican, though my personal philosophy leans more to Anarchism.

I have stuck with the republicans due to the conservative wing espousing limited government.

I've voted for candidate after candidate that makes so many promises, just to be elected.

Now the republican's nominee apparently does not care a whit about conservatism at all.

It's looking more every day that the Two Party System is One Big Lie.

I feel like the frog in the pot of water on the stove.  And it wasn't too bad a while ago, but it's awfully hot now.

I feel ya brother.   I've began to believe that the Democrat and Republican leadership are merely sock puppets for the power brokers who live in the Washington D.C. to Boston corridor.   

[roamer_1]

I think I'd rather walk, thanks.

No need... Take the pickup. I already know enough about you to bet money you have one. 
Plenty of diners and dives along the way... A much more comfortable mode of transportation.
Independence has it's perks.

[DiogenesLamp]

That argument has been debunked, Dio.  MANY times.

I'm voting against TWO degenerate, corrupt leftists.

And my conscience is entirely clear because of that.

(Try something new if you want to make progress.  Old, tired, wrong, false arguments don't cut the mustard).

Cause a communist oriented Governmental official breaking the law in a deliberate abuse of power is of no significance in a Presidential election.   

[Victoria33]

SMOD will stop this.

@GrouchoTex

OR Jesus Christ returning.

[DiogenesLamp]

True enough.

The only solution that makes sense is to vote for neither evil.  It's the only thing my conscience will allow.

Cause these guys might actually win or something. 


   

[GrouchoTex]

@GrouchoTex

OR Jesus Christ returning.

Yes, definitely, that would do it.

[Smokin Joe]

Donating to a Democrat candidate in your home town of NYC ain't  like Dade County.

Having a sitting politician powerful enough to jump hurdles with a phone call instead of navigating the permits gantlet and public/private union shops is priceless.

But, I understand your basic premise.   Just use it honestly, here.

I am using it honestly. Call it what you will, greasing the wheels, whatever, but it is still pay to play, and that's corruption. Especially when the really 'big' guys can afford to pay a whole department to take care of permits and dealing with unions.

See, the problem is, that as long as the big guys shell out to buy politicians and grease those wheels, the little guy will either be crushed by the demands of the corrupt or excluded from doing business. That is crooked. Period. If the rules are messed up change the rules for everyone. Otherwise, you are just enamored of those who can afford to meed the demands of graft and corruption, guaranteeing the continued existence of public servants and politicians on the take.

That, imho, is part of the problem. Must be those "New York Values".

[Smokin Joe]

Do not expect any substantive discussion of Trump's policy recommendations for national defense,  on this site.

I have proved to myself, there is little or no demand for such seriousness.

Serious discussion follows.....

How long will it take him to walk back those proposals?

Does Trump even know how many troops are in a Division?

...end serious discussion.

[flowers]

I keep hoping @truth_seeker --- especially on so important a topic.  I thought the proposals, BTW, were spot-on and very good.

@Right_in_Virginia  Me too, I keep on hoping.

[Ghost Bear]

He lost because of the people who voted "third party." 

Well, no. The Enabling Act, which allowed Hitler to assume dictatorial powers, was approved by every political party in the German Parliament except for Wels' SPD party.  All of the "third parties" voted for it.

If you're referring to the election for the Presidency of Germany in 1932, in which Ernst Thälmann (the picture in the quote just above) stood as the Communist Party candidate (the third of four candidates), von Hindenburg won that election with 53% of the vote on the second ballot, after the fourth (and lowest vote-getting) candidate dropped out. Hitler only received 36.8% of the vote.

So your attempted analogies fail on every front. Nice try though.

[DiogenesLamp]

I understand what you're saying.

Still, it would be nice to hear some of the more stalwart Trump fans admit to the above. Don't think I've ever hear a single one do so.

Every time I think about voting for DT I can't help recalling his behavior in the primaries and the fact that he remains unrepentant to this day. Its a huge impediment.

I live in a state that is heavily Republican and which Trump will win in a landslide.   Therefore I  don't have to vote for him,   but If I lived in a State like Ohio,   I would have to bite the bullet and do it.   


But I wouldn't be happy about it.    I'm still p*ssed off about the vile things he said about Cruz.    Of course he wouldn't have been able to beat Cruz in a fair fight.


He's a freakin New York City Liberal who appears to have undergone a very recent "conversion",  which I ain't buying.   


Fortunately,  he claims he will appoint conservative Judges,  and I think he will fix some things that need to be fixed,    and so could he be any worse than George HW Bush? 

[DiogenesLamp]

Its really a no win situation we're in now.

It might be a break even situation if Trump doesn't turn out as bad as we suspect he might,   but barring that,  it is a lose/lose really really bad,   situation.   


Yes,  there are some losses that are worse than other losses,   such as appointments to the Judiciary. 

[flowers]

Cause a communist oriented Governmental official breaking the law in a deliberate abuse of power is of no significance in a Presidential election.

I don't get it either @DiogenesLamp . The list is pages long on the crimes killary has committed.   * It is stunning really how they don't care if she gets the prez gig.

[DiogenesLamp]

Don't hold your breath. I work in the oil patch. If that becomes a Democrat stronghold, y'all can find your own.

I did that.    I was a derrick hand on a workover rig.   

[DiogenesLamp]

I am using it honestly. Call it what you will, greasing the wheels, whatever, but it is still pay to play, and that's corruption. Especially when the really 'big' guys can afford to pay a whole department to take care of permits and dealing with unions.

See, the problem is, that as long as the big guys shell out to buy politicians and grease those wheels, the little guy will either be crushed by the demands of the corrupt or excluded from doing business. That is crooked. Period. If the rules are messed up change the rules for everyone. Otherwise, you are just enamored of those who can afford to meed the demands of graft and corruption, guaranteeing the continued existence of public servants and politicians on the take.

That, imho, is part of the problem. Must be those "New York Values".

I think you are closer to the truth than you may realize.   You should read some of the stuff i've written about how the Civil War started,  and the avalanche of corruption that occurred in it's wake. 

[truth_seeker]

Serious discussion follows.....

How long will it take him to walk back those proposals?

Does Trump even know how many troops are in a Division?

...end serious discussion.

Do you have any remarks about the items that Trump put forth?

For example, the concept of "Peace Through Strength?"

Assuming that neither has first hand military experience, who do you trust to make better choices for national security?

[Bigun]

And here I agree with you completely.   Trump engaged in completely despicable attacks on Ted Cruz's honor,  intelligence,  and family.    But as bad as Trump was,  what infuriated me even more was how so many Trump supporters would endlessly repeat the false claims initiated by Trump. 


Over at Free Republic I asked  anyone to give me an example of a lie that Ted Cruz told.   Each and every claim  I shot down and demonstrated that what Cruz said was either true,  or that Ted Cruz didn't say it. 

Eventually they suspended me  because I was P*ssing people off.   


Trump ran a very dirty ugly campaign against Ted Cruz,  and even worse were his rabid fan base who literally seemed to have lost their minds with their paranoia,  claims and accusations. 



But  that was the primary and this is the general,   and now we have a real embodiment of evil as an opponent.

So I should reward all the evil things Trump and his allies did to get the nomination with my vote?  I don't think so!  When you reward that klind of thing you just get more of it!

[Bigun]

Do you have any remarks about the items that Trump put forth?

For example, the concept of "Peace Through Strength?"

Assuming that neither has first hand military experience, who do you trust to make better choices for national security?

I'm all far the concept of peace through strength but in order to have that you must first have a leader who understands what it is!  Trump hasn't even the most remote clue!

[musiclady]

Cause these guys might actually win or something. 

That's situation ethics, Dio.

I only do the right thing under certain circumstances.  My following moral law, ethics and absolute standards only applies when someone else tells me it's OK, and when some internet stranger tells me I should disobey, I follow along like a sheep and do what he tells me to do.

Doesn't work that way with me.  I'm doing the right thing, no matter what you try to get me to do.

That's why they're called absolute standards.

(See my signature quote.  Not this time).

[Sanguine]

And here I agree with you completely.   Trump engaged in completely despicable attacks on Ted Cruz's honor,  intelligence,  and family.    But as bad as Trump was,  what infuriated me even more was how so many Trump supporters would endlessly repeat the false claims initiated by Trump.


Over at Free Republic I asked  anyone to give me an example of a lie that Ted Cruz told.   Each and every claim  I shot down and demonstrated that what Cruz said was either true,  or that Ted Cruz didn't say it.

Eventually they suspended me  because I was P*ssing people off.   

Trump ran a very dirty ugly campaign against Ted Cruz,  and even worse were his rabid fan base who literally seemed to have lost their minds with their paranoia,  claims and accusations.

But  that was the primary and this is the general,   and now we have a real embodiment of evil as an opponent.

I understand what you're saying.

Still, it would be nice to hear some of the more stalwart Trump fans admit to the above. Don't think I've ever hear a single one do so.

Every time I think about voting for DT I can't help recalling his behavior in the primaries and the fact that he remains unrepentant to this day. Its a huge impediment.

@skeeter, that's an important point you made.  If the Trumpers would say things like, "we know he's not perfect, he did X, Y and Z and shouldn't have, he should apolgize to ____, but he's a darned sight better than Clinton", I think we could have an actual conversation and they might even persuade some people. 

It's the weird, cult-like inability to see or admit to any of the man's faults that engenders so much resistant.  That and doing so by insulting and condescending to the never-Trumpers (of which I am not, BTW).

[DiogenesLamp]

Well, no. The Enabling Act, which allowed Hitler to assume dictatorial powers, was approved by every political party in the German Parliament except for Wels' SPD party.  All of the "third parties" voted for it.

If you're referring to the election for the Presidency of Germany in 1932, in which Ernst Thälmann (the picture in the quote just above) stood as the Communist Party candidate (the third of four candidates), von Hindenburg won that election with 53% of the vote on the second ballot, after the fourth (and lowest vote-getting) candidate dropped out. Hitler only received 36.8% of the vote.

So your attempted analogies fail on every front. Nice try though.

I think it is you who might want to try again. 


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_March_1933


But my point remains.   Hitlery is a F***ING NAZI!     I do not know how I can make this point more clearly than to point out that everything she has done in her professional or private life is Nazi-Like in temperament
and in her willingness to abuse power.    


Now she would quibble and say she was a Stalinist,   but the differences between the two are too insignificant to bother pointing out. 

[DCPatriot]

@skeeter, that's an important point you made.  If the Trumpers would say things like, "we know he's not perfect, he did X, Y and Z and shouldn't have, he should apolgize to ____, but he's a darned sight better than Clinton", I think we could have an actual conversation and they might even persuade some people. 

It's the weird, cult-like inability to see or admit to any of the man's faults that engenders so much resistant.  That and doing so by insulting and condescending to the never-Trumpers (of which I am not, BTW).

What intellectual dishonesty, @Sanguine   

We've done that hundreds of times....going back to Summer of 2015.

What good did it do?   No difference.

Just look at the thread in OPINIONS (The Flight-93 Election).....where it should be REQUIRED reading and a quiz passed by every #nevertrumper on this forum.

Instead...they avoid it like it's car vomit.   

....because it's all about THEM.