NeverTrumps and the End of America as We Know It

[Bigun]

The "end of America as we know it" happened when Trump became the "Republican" nominee, and actual Republicans.... especially Conservative Republicans had no one representing a single value we have in the Republican party.

It is those who made this corrupt Democrat our nominee, who are totally responsible for the destruction we are about to face as a nation.

Fie on all of you for your irresponsible "choice" to vote for a pro-abortion liberal.

I found this to be an EXCELLENT explanation of where we currently find ourselves!

http://stepstopoliticalepiphany.com/

I hope you like it as well.

[r9etb]

I wonder if you can offer a substantive rebuttal ??

I gave your comment the substantive rebuttal it deserved. 

[musiclady]

I found this to be an EXCELLENT explanation of where we currently find ourselves!

http://stepstopoliticalepiphany.com/

I hope you like it as well.

Wow! I'd like to delve into that @Bigun!

I am especially intrigued by this....

"What unrepentant sin against Jesus Christ does a Republican have to commit, before you will stop rewarding them with your vote?"

I think I found my answer to that in the pro-abortion, unrepentant adulterer, Donald Trump.

Thanks for the link!

[musiclady]

@musiclady

But nominating a lifelong New York liberal with an unfavorable rating higher than Hillary's was a good thing, or so we've been told.

I would rather be in the position I am in, that of explaining why I will NOT vote for a lifelong liberal turd like Trump rather than be in the untenable position of having to explain why I did.

That's where I am, @Vulcan .

I don't think I could live with the guilt I'd have if I pulled the lever for such a vile, corrupt man as Donald Trump.

The idea that voting our consciences and withholding a vote for Trump somehow will result in the "end of America as we know it" has got to be one of the stupidest things these Trump fanatics have ever said.

There is a sickness here, and it frightens me that it's on "our side" of the aisle.

It's very, very wrong.....

[Bigun]

Wow! I'd like to delve into that @Bigun!

I am especially intrigued by this....

"What unrepentant sin against Jesus Christ does a Republican have to commit, before you will stop rewarding them with your vote?"

I think I found my answer to that in the pro-abortion, unrepentant adulterer, Donald Trump.

Thanks for the link!

That is the question of the day for sure and you can thank @L9teen for the link!

[roamer_1]

That's where I am, @Vulcan .

I don't think I could live with the guilt I'd have if I pulled the lever for such a vile, corrupt man as Donald Trump.

The idea that voting our consciences and withholding a vote for Trump somehow will result in the "end of America as we know it" has got to be one of the stupidest things these Trump fanatics have ever said.

There is a sickness here, and it frightens me that it's on "our side" of the aisle.

It's very, very wrong.....

INDEED. In fact, the very opposite is true: When Conservatives, the last bastion of Americana, fail to vote their consciences, THEN dies America as we have known her.

THEN there is no opposition whatsoever.

The foolishness of those claiming otherwise is readily apparent.

[musiclady]

INDEED. In fact, the very opposite is true: When Conservatives, the last bastion of Americana, fail to vote their consciences, THEN dies America as we have known her.

THEN there is no opposition whatsoever.

The foolishness of those claiming otherwise is readily apparent.

Precisely.

But what we are dealing with are leftists.  And to the left, the opposite of the truth is the way they perceive life.

So if they are the cause of the destruction of America as we know it (and they are), then they must blame those who had no part in it.

Those who refused to sacrifice our standards for a liberal snake oil salesman...

[Formerly Once-Ler]

False. Those words are not included at my request.

You got 'em on that one.  It say "(PRO TRUMP ONLY)" not "Trump supporters Only" 

Read much LMAO?
@LMAO

[guitar4jesus]

That is the question of the day for sure and you can thank L9teen for the link!

@Bigun @L9teen

Thanks for the link!

[L9teen]

@Bigun @L9teen

Thanks for the link!

This might get me banned at TOS, but I posted that link in all it's glory, over there.  I added all the text for each step/video and we'll see how long it lasts, or what vitriol will be thrown my way.  Lord knows, it's just like Ted Cruz saying "vote your conscience" and these tools will see it at an attack on their Trump worship.

I'm sure, as the messenger, I'm gonna be killed, but oh well.  At least I tried.

Keep your eye on this thread: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3466823/posts

[Bigun]

This might get me banned at TOS, but I posted that link in all it's glory, over there.  I added all the text for each step/video and we'll see how long it lasts, or what vitriol will be thrown my way.  Lord knows, it's just like Ted Cruz saying "vote your conscience" and these tools will see it at an attack on their Trump worship.

I'm sure, as the messenger, I'm gonna be killed, but oh well.  At least I tried.

It will be a GLORIOUS banning!  And a very worthwhile one as well!

[r9etb]

This might get me banned at TOS....

Other than lingering sentiment for a once-great site, do you actually care....?   

[musiclady]

This might get me banned at TOS, but I posted that link in all it's glory, over there.  I added all the text for each step/video and we'll see how long it lasts, or what vitriol will be thrown my way.  Lord knows, it's just like Ted Cruz saying "vote your conscience" and these tools will see it at an attack on their Trump worship.

I'm sure, as the messenger, I'm gonna be killed, but oh well.  At least I tried.

I've added the best quote to my signature line.

Thanks SO much, @L9teen !

[Bigun]

I've added the best quote to my signature line.

Thanks SO much, @L9teen !

Excellent!   

[goatprairie]

From the article:

One more time:

Never before in American history have intellectual and political leaders of a major party deliberately attempted to open the gates of enduring power to an enemy sworn to their eradication 

Get it, nevertrumps?

What you don't get is that by helping the Orange Toad to the nomination you drove a huge knife into the heart of the conservative movement. By whining and complaining that we haven't got everything we've wanted from current Pubbie pols, you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
A Cruz as president (or several other candidates) would have not only made a much better, saner, smarter president, he (or she...Fiorina) would have been able to explain and educate the American public about conservatism.
The problem isn't so much a Hillary Clinton or a Barack Obama as the president....the problem is the people who voted them into office. They must be educated. If not, we will see a lot more Obamas, Clintons, or Sanders as Dem candidates.
Trump can do no such thing.....he is way out of his depth intellectually and temperamentally.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I see.  Blaming the actual people who cast a ballot for Clinton doesn't count as being responsible for her coronation.

I'm sorry - where did i say that the people who vote for her wouldn't have the primary responsibility?  Of course they would.

You could also blame Trump for not winning enough votes, and those who chose not to vote for him as the only realistic alternative to Hillary.  But sure, her supporters bear the primary blame.

t's the people who did not cast a ballot for Trump that will shoulder the blame.  Makes perfect sense this side of the Looking Glass in this day and age.

Nobody said her voters would not bear responsibility.  You're just inferring that to play the martyr.

[INVAR]

Nobody said her voters would not bear responsibility.  You're just inferring that to play the martyr.

I'm reading all over the place that any blame for Hildabeast's "win" will be shouldered by those Conservatives who do not vote for Trump.  From Hannity on down to the cesspools on social media and forums like TOS.

It has nothing to do with playing a martyr, it's based on what the Trump militant and supporters themselves are stating and typing.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Precisely.

But what we are dealing with are leftists.  And to the left, the opposite of the truth is the way they perceive life.

Do you really think everyone who is voting for Trump is a leftist?  I despise Trump -- I think the primary campaign he ran was despicable, and he is too far to the left for me on a bunch of issues.  I find him personally repellent.

That being said, I now see this as a binary choice - I can choose to do my utmost to keep Hillary Clinton out of office, or not.  Given that choice, my conscience won't allow me to do anything less than vote for the only person with a realistic shot at keeping her out of office -- as much as I despise him personally.  Policy-wise, I do see him as likely to be better than her in terms of social engineering in the military, taxes, and regulation.  Likely the Supreme Court as well.  So as much as I would enjoy seeing him lose the election, that pleasure would be both selfish, and fleeting, because the country would then be faced with someone who would surely cement Obama's legacy on a bunch of issues, and likely moving the Supreme Court irrevocably far to the left.

Voting for the "lesser evil" is not wrong, when the lesser evil is more easily reversed and cured.

[HonestJohn]

Do you really think everyone who is voting for Trump is a leftist?  I despise Trump -- I think the primary campaign he ran was despicable, and he is too far to the left for me on a bunch of issues.  I find him personally repellent.

That being said, I now see this as a binary choice - I can choose to do my utmost to keep Hillary Clinton out of office, or not.  Given that choice, my conscience won't allow me to do anything less than vote for the only person with a realistic shot at keeping her out of office -- as much as I despise him personally.  Policy-wise, I do see him as likely to be better than her in terms of social engineering in the military, taxes, and regulation.  Likely the Supreme Court as well.  So as much as I would enjoy seeing him lose the election, that pleasure would be both selfish, and fleeting, because the country would then be faced with someone who would surely cement Obama's legacy on a bunch of issues, and likely moving the Supreme Court irrevocably far to the left.

Voting for the "lesser evil" is not wrong, when the lesser evil is more easily reversed and cured.

You need to sit down and think of just how bad the opposition has to be before Hillary becomes the lesser evil.

Write it down.

Then compare it to Trump.

Once you actually do that... you might surprise yourself.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I'm reading all over the place that any blame for Hildabeast's "win" will be shouldered by those Conservatives who do not vote for Trump.  From Hannity on down to the cesspools on social media and forums like TOS.

It has nothing to do with playing a martyr, it's based on what the Trump militant and supporters themselves are stating and typing.

You may be reading that "all over the place", but you were responding to me, and I didn't say that.  And in fairness, I don't think those other folks mean that those who actually vote for Hillary are guiltless.  Presumably, they'd accept that guilt as a given.  The argument against the "NeverTrump" crowd boils down to "all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."  Evil's guilt is presumed -- it's the failure of others to stop it that is the matter under discussion.

That being said, I don't badger those who aren't voting for Trump, or engage in any name calling.  I do think they're [/I]wrong[/I], but that's different.

Your position, @INVAR , is a bit different from everyone else's in that you believe that everything is already lost, and nothing that we do matters anyway.  I personally am not the type to accept such inevitabilities and "just lay back and enjoy it", so if the only kind of action I can fight right now is a rear-guard action to buy time, that's what I'll do.

Luck, fortune, providence...whatever you want to call it, I recall how lost we seemed as a nation in the late 70's.  Goldwater's defeat was the (mostly) accepted death-knell of conservatism, and leftism was on the march everywhere.  But one guy who was both right on most policies, and was blessed with brilliant communication skills and charisma, gave us a fighting chance, and some good years for the country.

The longer that rear-guard holds, the greater the chance we give for someone similar to rise to the forefront.  I've got kids, and I'd like to give them the best shot I possibly can of living in a better world.  So whatever straw there is, I'm grasping it.

[aligncare]

Don't be foolish.  You're the one who wanted Trump in the first place.  You're the one who has to own the disaster that is his candidacy.  You're the one responsible for opening the gates to a Hillary Clinton presidency.

And you're the one who's trying to hide from the consequences of his own actions.

Talk about misplaced anger. RIV most certainly is not responsible for Donald Trump being where he is -- Donald Trump is responsible for where Donald Trump is. For heaven's sake, seek help.

[Doug Loss]

Do you really think everyone who is voting for Trump is a leftist?  I despise Trump -- I think the primary campaign he ran was despicable, and he is too far to the left for me on a bunch of issues.  I find him personally repellent.

That being said, I now see this as a binary choice - I can choose to do my utmost to keep Hillary Clinton out of office, or not.  Given that choice, my conscience won't allow me to do anything less than vote for the only person with a realistic shot at keeping her out of office -- as much as I despise him personally.  Policy-wise, I do see him as likely to be better than her in terms of social engineering in the military, taxes, and regulation.  Likely the Supreme Court as well.  So as much as I would enjoy seeing him lose the election, that pleasure would be both selfish, and fleeting, because the country would then be faced with someone who would surely cement Obama's legacy on a bunch of issues, and likely moving the Supreme Court irrevocably far to the left.

Voting for the "lesser evil" is not wrong, when the lesser evil is more easily reversed and cured.

And that's the difference between you and us.  We all realize that Clinton will be a horrible president.  You can stomach voting for the repellent Trump to keep that from happening, while we find him to be equally horrible to Clinton.  Will one or the other be president?  Unless something truly unlikely occurs, yes.  Will we (I'm speaking rhetorically; I clearly can only say how I personally will vote) be parties to helping either of them gain that office?  No.  I'll vote for Castle or MacMullin, or even Johnson if neither of the others are on the Tennessee ballot or acceptable write-ins.  But my conscience will not allow me to vote for anyone so antithetically opposed to all the principles I hold dear as either Clinton or Trump.

[musiclady]

Do you really think everyone who is voting for Trump is a leftist?  I despise Trump -- I think the primary campaign he ran was despicable, and he is too far to the left for me on a bunch of issues.  I find him personally repellent.

That being said, I now see this as a binary choice - I can choose to do my utmost to keep Hillary Clinton out of office, or not.  Given that choice, my conscience won't allow me to do anything less than vote for the only person with a realistic shot at keeping her out of office -- as much as I despise him personally.  Policy-wise, I do see him as likely to be better than her in terms of social engineering in the military, taxes, and regulation.  Likely the Supreme Court as well.  So as much as I would enjoy seeing him lose the election, that pleasure would be both selfish, and fleeting, because the country would then be faced with someone who would surely cement Obama's legacy on a bunch of issues, and likely moving the Supreme Court irrevocably far to the left.

Voting for the "lesser evil" is not wrong, when the lesser evil is more easily reversed and cured.

No, I don't think that everyone voting for Trump is a leftist.  In fact, most aren't.  But I believe most of the extreme zealots and those we occasionally call "trolls" have a leftist agenda that includes the destruction of conservatism.

I understand your choice to try to stop Hillary (though I think Trump is there to elect Hillary.. but that's another subject), and I respect it.  But I disagree that it's a binary choice.

I believe that the more there are of us who stand up against the Democrat agenda in both parties (since that's what Trump is ideologically), the better our future is.  No matter who wins in November, America loses.  There is no decent choice.

I don't see that we can trust Trump for anything, including SC choices.  He IS a leftist, and needs to be viewed as such.

Anything else is a pipe dream.

@Maj. Bill Martin

[EasyAce]

Allowing that I'm probably on several ignore lists, I'm still waiting for someone
---anyone---to convince me that a vote for "None of These Candidates"
(the option in my state, since we don't have a write-in vote) is not the only viable
and bearable vote anyone who loves his country can cast, when (as was said only
too often this year) his country's house is on fire and his countrymanpersons---
for whatever perverse reasons---presented him with nothing but a choice of
arsonists to fight the blaze.

[Fantom]

No, I don't think that everyone voting for Trump is a leftist.  In fact, most aren't.  But I believe most of the extreme zealots and those we occasionally call "trolls" have a leftist agenda that includes the destruction of conservatism.

I understand your choice to try to stop Hillary (though I think Trump is there to elect Hillary.. but that's another subject), and I respect it.  But I disagree that it's a binary choice.

I believe that the more there are of us who stand up against the Democrat agenda in both parties (since that's what Trump is ideologically), the better our future is.  No matter who wins in November, America loses.  There is no decent choice.

I don't see that we can trust Trump for anything, including SC choices.  He IS a leftist, and needs to be viewed as such.

Anything else is a pipe dream.

@Maj. Bill Martin

Yes, the "binary choice" is voting for a progressive..... or not voting for either.