Hey #NeverTrumps: This Could Be Your Last Relevant Election

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Going populist and abandoning the philosophical principles that supposedly underlay the Republican party is not "coming alive." It's a path towards unthinking liberalism.

The GOP didn't "go populist".  Some of the people who voted in the GOP primary did.  That's an extremely important distinction, because it was apparent pretty early on that much of "the party" didn't want Trump.  But a plurality of voters had other ideas, so he won.

So don't blame "the party".  Blame those who voted for him in the primary, and realize that those people are still going to be part of the electorate no matter what happens this November.

[DCPatriot]

This is pretty Chicken Little-ish.

Trump's nomination did not show that the GOP was hostile to conservatives.  It showed that a populist running alone in that lane could get a plurality of votes when the Establishment and conservative wings split the rest of the vote among a 16 candidate field. Bad luck, bad timing, call it what you will.  Some gullible people being sucked in to support a guy out of frustration with a party establishment that didn't seem to listen on the issue of immigration.

I've said more than once.....Jeb Bush should have spent $45 MILLION dollars, paying the 15 "don't have a chance in hell of winning"...THREE MILLION DOLLARS each.   Dropping out of the race to 'Consult' with the Bush Campaign.

Instead he blew thru something like $150 MILLION dollars and didn't win ONE PRIMARY! 

[DCPatriot]

The GOP didn't "go populist".  Some of the people who voted in the GOP primary did.  That's an extremely important distinction, because it was apparent pretty early on that much of "the party" didn't want Trump.  But a plurality of voters had other ideas, so he won.

So don't blame "the party".  Blame those who voted for him in the primary, and realize that those people are still going to be part of the electorate no matter what happens this November.

So glad you're back posting, sir!   

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Nah.  Your prescription is just for slow poison.  It still leads to death eventually.

We nominated Nixon twice, then Ford.  Could have made a great argument after the 1976 Convention that conservatives should have just abandoned the GOP and gone out on their own, likely into oblivion.

What conservatives need to do is go back to first principles.  They need to teach, speak, articulate, sell, persuade people about our founding principles.  We are right.  We need to start acting like we really believe it.

But this already is happening, right now.  People argue here, they argue in public.  Ted Cruz made the case (badly, I think, but he did make it).  But for some reason, it isn't working. 

Instead conservatives are constantly selling out because some poll just showed their position to be unpopular.  Well, then MAKE IT POPULAR for goodness sake by repeating and repeating and repeating the position until the populace understands it again.

Again, this has been happening since Reagan in 1980 and yet, here we are.  Not even enough of us to be a majority of a party that itself is only 30% of the electorate.  How do you explain that?

We are losing because the ideals that formed our nation are not be taught any longer.  There is only one road to correcting this.  TEACH IT!  PREACH IT!  DEBATE IT!  PERSUADE IT!  Not by selling out.  That is like standing on a bridge and saying "We must save this bridge," so in order to keep this spot I'm standing on, I'll sell the support beams underneath.  Then eventually everything will be ok.  IT WILL NOT BE OK.

Look, I actually agree with you on this.  But how does that logically lead to a third party?  The way things are now, a conservative who runs for the GOP nomination gets a huge platform.  They're in the debates, they're on TV, radio, etc...  If they are unable to persuade, well...that's on them.  Live and learn, try again in 4 years.  But the opportunity to change minds is certainly there.

Remaining in the GOP is the best platform/bully pulpit we're going to get to try to expand and persuade.  But as soon as we abandon that for some third party, we've reduced ourselves to preaching to a too-small choir, and nobody is even going to hear us, much less actually be persuaded.  Individuals and politicians can remain ideologically strong while still remaining in the party.

The truth is that when it comes to persuading people, the messenger is just as important as the message.  Being "right' doesn't mean squat if you are not persuasive.  That means you have to find candidates who are not only "right", but also adept at persuading those who don't already agree with them.  That's just reality.  And I'd submit that we haven't produced a conservative President candidate who was both clearly conservative and persuasive since Reagan.  And no amount of party-switching is going to change the need for us to find that kind of candidate.

[Axel]

Nor can one be a "fiscal conservative" and a "social liberal", IMHO. The two simply don't mesh.

Probably a good explanation why Gary Johnson sounds like a basket case any time he tries to explain his policy positions.

[Smokin Joe]

So, who here thinks that if Trump WINS, GOPe will see the light and move towards conservatism? 

So, who here thinks that if Trump LOSES, GOPe will see the light and move towards conservatism? 

I do know one thing.  If Hillary wins, the Democrat Party will rule for several generations.    Universities, social media, and the news media, are already controlled by their ideology.  The last possible line of defense is the Supreme Court, and it has been wavering for years.  I’m not even sure if we can trust the military anymore. 

I agree that Trump is far from a conservative, but this is where we stand.  What principled song will you want the band to play as the metaphorical Titanic slips silently into the waters?

That metaphorical Titanic is already gashed like a gutted fish. It's going down anyway. Why? Because there are three generations of Liberals running the show who will 'educate' the next two, IF we don't start/continue building from the ground up. The solution will not come from the Oval Office, anyway, unless the person in that office eliminates whole Federal Departments, and with the two we have from the Republicans and Democrats, that just. isn't. happening.

Without returning the Federal Government to its Constitutional bounds, the stranglehold will not be broken, and that won't happen until people call for it from every precinct and parish in the country. Until the failed policies really fail, people are going to continue, steeped in normalcy bias, as if nothing is wrong.

This is why I advocate turning our energies not to breaking the Washington Uniparty Cabal from within, but by building another Party with the Constitution as its platform. There is such a Party, and it is what Conservatives in line with original intent would embrace readily. It will take time, and if what is in place already fails it would be best to have something to run with rather than unmitigated chaos.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

It's her party and she'll blame them if she wants to, blame them if she wants to...ooo..oooo...ooo...ooo.....you would cry too if it happened to you.

This is an important point, though.  The fact is that conservative candidate(s) failed to persuade Trump voters, and those voters lifted him to the nomination.  So, who do you blame for that?  Do you blame the candidates who were not able to persuade those voters, or do you blame the voters who were not persuaded?

I think the truth is that both are "to blame", but what I don't see is the logic for blaming "the party".  And leaving the party doesn't make all those unpersuaded voters out there suddenly disappear.  They're still going to be out there, and you're still going to need to persuade them if you want to win elections.

[Smokin Joe]

Thank you for the encouragement.  It is greatly appreciated.  It's been a bit of a lonely path for me; most of the other stay at home moms I run across I have absolutely nothing in common with and find it hard to relate to them.

It is often in life that the best path is not the easiest. I have the utmost respect for moms who place their kids first. Mine did, and I will ever love her for that.

[HonestJohn]

This is a very poor attempt at winning support.

It's just purile insults and exposes just how desperate the Trump side actually is for our votes.

-

My response?  Where is the $67 million for my vote? 

(It's gone up from $48 million due to the insults and lack of fawning adoration required for my vote.  Just like Trump's wall keeps getting higher.  Imitiation *IS* the highest form of flattery, of course.)

[Bigun]

Describes the Cruz #nevertrump brigade perfectly.  Thank you for this @CatherinofAragon

You are quite delusional! PLEASE see a competent professional!

[HonestJohn]

It doesn't because it can't.  The fact that both nominees are New York liberals means this country is hosed regardless the outcome of this rigged election.

I'll take the bullet.  It's quicker and less painful.

[Vulcan]

This is a very poor attempt at winning support.

It's just purile insults and exposes just how desperate the Trump side actually is for our votes.

It’s similar behavior to that of the orange New York liberal they support.

[Bigun]

Uh... as stated:

Funding numbers
Polls
Unfavorable ratings
Electoral college analysis
Lack of Team Trump ground game
Trump flip-flops

...not to mention that the notoriously anti-GOP media hasn't even started with the "fake but accurate" stories about Trump's business dealings designed to bury the man. (There will also be plenty of "true and accurate" stories, too, that they simply haven't turned into a full-blown exposé yet. Like the way he stiffs small contractors.)

Far be it for a Trumpette to listen to the facts when presented, though.

As well as a TON of historical data and actual EVIDENCE!

[Silver Pines]

ROFL!   But yours is based upon what?

Careful analysis and sound deductive reasoning???

@DCPatriot


You got one right.  There's hope for you yet.

[HonestJohn]

What nevertrumps don't realize is that the GOP came alive when the people handed Trump the nomination.

That is your opinion, with nothing to support it.

My opinion is that your opinion is ludicrious.  And I'll give no more support for it than you give for yours.

Therefore, both are just as valid.

[Vulcan]

Going populist and abandoning the philosophical principles that supposedly underlay the Republican party is not "coming alive." It's a path towards unthinking liberalism.

Well put, BW.

[Silver Pines]

Describes the Cruz #nevertrump brigade perfectly.  Thank you for this @CatherinofAragon

@Right_in_Virginia

I just call them as a I see them.  I've seen how you all behave on those FR rally threads.  One of them is now scheduling her day around Trump appearances.

[Bigun]

No matter how hard one tries it is STILL impossible to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear!

A liberal is a liberal and that is that!

[HonestJohn]

This is pretty Chicken Little-ish.

Trump's nomination did not show that the GOP was hostile to conservatives.  It showed that a populist running alone in that lane could get a plurality of votes when the Establishment and conservative wings split the rest of the vote among a 16 candidate field.  Bad luck, bad timing, call it what you will.  Some gullible people being sucked in to support a guy out of frustration with a party establishment that didn't seem to listen on the issue of immigration.

There are Democrats who hated Bill Clinton because they saw him as too much of a centrist, and too willing to abandon some of the kookier left-wing ideals.  But -- apart from those who went for Nader and threw the election to Dubya -- most of them ended up sticking with the Democratic Party over the long-term.  And guess what?  Eventually, they got their left-wing nominee and President in Obama (twice), and appear close to a three-peat with Hillary.  All because the left didn't take their ball and go home just because they didn't like a particular nominee.

There is nobody praying harder for the fracture of the GOP than the Democrats, because they know that will be the only viable vehicle for a conservative challenger.

The truth is that conservatives are not a majority in this country, and never have been.  The only way to get a conservative as President is to have the right candidate, and build a coalition that includes some non-conservatives.  But if we take our ball, go home, and insist on a party that has rigid ideological purity, we have no chance of electing a conservative ever.

Yes... and Trump is not the vessel for that.  He drives away not just independents, but a good chunk of GOP voters as well.

[Bigun]

We differ in oh so many ways.

It was not Cruz's failure.  It was the plotting of the establishment wing over McConnell's personal vendetta AND MOSTLY it was Trump's labeling, lying, and slandering of Cruz.  Trump and his surrogates labeled Cruz a liar.  Why?  Because Cruz was exposing Trump's flip flopping.  They spread slanderous lies about Cruz, such as that he had 5 different extra marital affairs, that he might be the zodiac killer, that his father was a religious nut, that his father helped scheme the murder of JFK, that his wife is ugly and that she was some globalist conspirator because she was once affiliated with CFR and worked for Goldman Sachs......that he was not eligible....on and on and on.  Cruz took it like a man, but sometimes the bad guy wins because the bad guy uses corrupt tactics.  Blaming Cruz is blaming the victim, imo.  And this issue will not be resolved with more T-nexus slandering of Cruz.

Trump is so corrupt in his character that I would be utterly ashamed to add my name to those seeking his political representation.  God help us if that vindictive narcissist gains the power of the presidency.  God help us if Hillary gets it, too.  One does not nullify the other.  Danger ahead.  My trust is in God.  I will not choose evil as a means of saving myself.  If the nation perishes, it perishes.  I must obey God, which means I cannot be party to the vile tactics of Trump.

As for leaving the party -- the party left me.  The leadership has plotted against all the conservatives in Congress.  They targeted my primary candidate for scorn just because he had the guts to stand up in the Senate and do what conservatives wanted him to do and what he promised voters in his state he would do when they elected him.  Yes, I blame the party.  I am officially an unaffiliated voter as of May 3, 2016.

Absolutely!  And the thoroughly corrupt media played their part as well!

[Cripplecreek]

Yes.  Thank you.  The picture would be incomplete without remembering the corrupt media's part in all of this.

The NY based media went rabid over Ted Cruz slapping trump's "NY Values".

[chae]

Boiled down to bare bones, I refuse to vote for a New York liberal.  Make of that what you will.

[Cripplecreek]

That was Cruz's only real mistake.  And it was not the mistake the media and tRump painted it as.  it was merely a procedural error.  Cruz was referring to an actual interview where Trump himself defined the terms.  Where Cruz erred was in audience and timing.  He said it during a debate where most of the audience were unfamiliar with what he was referencing.  So it was unclear and ripe to be spun into a lying web of deceit by Trump and his media cohorts.  If you repeat a lie often enough, as they say, it becomes people's reality in spite of the truth.

I suspect most conservatives agreed with it at face value and video of Trump's admission of NY values only confirmed it. In fact most Trump supporters would have agreed with it if Trump hadn't been in the race.

The media is pretty NY centric and self superior so they would always have a problem with it.

[geronl]

On the generic ballot the GOP went from an 8-point advantage pre-primary, to a 12-point deficit post-convention.

This is not my definition  of "coming alive"

[DCPatriot]

@DCPatriot


You got one right.  There's hope for you yet.