Time to John Birch the Alt-Right ....by Jonah Goldberg

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I understand.  My preference is to deny Trump my vote in favor of Gary Johnson.  The thought of voting for Hillary chills me to the bone.  But so does a Trump Presidency.   

I, like many,  feel I've been backed into a corner.  The time for killing Trumpism at little cost has past.  Now it requires us to choose between a plague of frogs and a plague of locusts.   

Frogs eat mosquitos. I welcome them.

[andy58-in-nh]

I'm a faithful follower of Brother John Birch
And I belong to the Antioch Baptist Church.

"And I don't even own a garage, you can call home and ask my wife...."

[Jazzhead]

Frogs eat mosquitos. I welcome them.

I hope they can develop an appetite for locusts. 

[goatprairie]

This week's GOP primary elections give me hope that Trumpism will die with Trump.   Both McCain and Rubio faced opponents who attacked them from the alt-right perspective and were cheer-led by Breitbart,  and both cruised to victory.   Same with Paul Ryan whose Trump-clone opponent was kicked firmly in the ass.   

The Republican electorate is still, I believe,  mostly composed of decent, thinking folks.   Trumpism is more and more looking like an aberration, a cult of personality, an appeal to the weak-minded seeking easy answers.   

That's why I'm so adamant in opposing Trump.   As sink has put it,  a stake needs to be driven through the heart of the beast, SO CONSERVATISM CAN SURVIVE.   I wish there were another way, but I'll take four years of Clinton to the death of conservatism.

Many good conservatives are resigned to "settling" for Trump. And to be sure, Trump is  the worst Pubbie candidate to settle for I've ever seen.
Many  Trumpists make the false claim that we have to vote for Trump because they voted/settled  for "our" candidates i.e. McCain and Romney. It's false because many conservatives settled for those two like they will for Trump. But I'll easily take both those two moderate Republicans over someone like Trump who only recently discovered "conservatism."
Actually, Trump doesn't even pretend to be or have turned into a conservative. He is what he is....a conman who got in front of an issue dear to conservatives (illegal immigration) and rode it all the way to the Republican presidential nomination.
I might yet cast my vote for Trump holding my nose all the way in and out of the voting booth. Then scrub myself off with lye when I get home.
But you raise a very good question....will voting for Trump delay the march of leftism until a better candidate can be found in four or eight years, or will a Trump presidency kill off the conservative movement forever or at least long enough to ensure the complete takeover by the leftists?
I'll admit to being undecided about that question. As much as I loathe Trump, I loathe Hillary Clinton more. Which danger could the country withstand better? I don't know.

[massadvj]

But you raise a very good question....will voting for Trump delay the march of leftism until a better candidate can be found in four or eight years, or will a Trump presidency kill off the conservative movement forever or at least long enough to ensure the complete takeover by the leftists?

If Hillary is able to appoint replacements for Scalia and Thomas (who recently indicated he is ready to retire) the Supreme Court will be lost for at least a generation, probably more.  To me, that means Hillary does more damage to conservatism than Trump.  Trump may or may not appoint hard-line constitutionalists, but at least we will have some leverage over him. 

[Cripplecreek]

If Hillary is able to appoint replacements for Scalia and Thomas (who recently indicated he is ready to retire) the Supreme Court will be lost for at least a generation, probably more.  To me, that means Hillary does more damage to conservatism than Trump.  Trump may or may not appoint hard-line constitutionalists, but at least we will have some leverage over him.

He'll get fawning adoration no matter what he says or does.

[goatprairie]

If Hillary is able to appoint replacements for Scalia and Thomas (who recently indicated he is ready to retire) the Supreme Court will be lost for at least a generation, probably more.  To me, that means Hillary does more damage to conservatism than Trump.  Trump may or may not appoint hard-line constitutionalists, but at least we will have some leverage over him.

True, but the argument against voting for Trump is also a good one.  If Trump is president, the Republican Party face, as presented by the media, will be that of the worst elements of the alt-right. Just go to few alt-right web forums....the hatred of anybody not of pure anglo-Saxon descent is palpable.  That's how the media will depict all Republicans ......anti-Semitic, anti-black, anti-Asian, anti-everybody but "pure" white people. Kind of like what they do now. Many of those alt-right nuts don't even think eastern Europeans are worthy of being called white.
Will many people believe the media? Maybe not...the fact is the worst elements of the right will have their man in the White House....whether he endorses them or not.
I don't like the image of the Republican Party as one for just a small group of certain pale-colored people. Why should I reject Thomas Sowell,  Allen West,  or Jason Riley for white racists like David Duke etal?
 I don't know...not an easy choice for me.

[jedidah]

What's a conservative to do?  Before we pull the lever for Trump, out of "solidarity" or fear of Clinton,  we'd better count the cost.   A vote for Trump is a vote in alliance with cockroaches who belong back under their rocks.  We'll never live it down - the hole in our souls will never heal.  A vote against Trump is a vote to endure short term pain in exchange for saving the conservative movement so it can fight another day.   

You seem to think that a Trump win will tar us all by fulfilling the fantasies of those who are now trying to re-define alt-right to include genuine conservatives.  I'm more convinced that a Trump win would result in rebellion by his loyal followers and a backlash when he is revealed to be the imposter he is. 

We must weigh the harm done by four weak years of Trump (then a challenge back to true conservatism by Cruz, Walker, etc.) against generational harm done if Clinton gets to pack the Court.

[Cyber Liberty]

Do you still live with your mother?

@Wingnut 's been "borrowing" lyrics from songs again... 

[Cripplecreek]

We must weigh the harm done by four weak years of Trump (then a challenge back to true conservatism by Cruz, Walker, etc.) against generational harm done if Clinton gets to pack the Court.

The GOP is not going to allow a challenge to a president Trump from within the party. They've found a useful tool in Trump.

[jedidah]

The GOP is not going to allow a challenge to a president Trump from within the party. They've found a useful tool in Trump.

Maybe not, but there will be plenty of time (assuming true conservatives can unite) to take over one of the existing minor parties or to form a new one.

A Libertarian could have won the White House this year had they the sense to nominate one of the failed GOP candidates.  I don't like Rand Paul, but I'd vote for him in a heartbeat this fall.

[Wingnut]

Do you still live with your mother?

"And I don't even own a garage, you can call home and ask my wife...."

@Wingnut 's been "borrowing" lyrics from songs again... 

I may look dumb, but that's just a disguise
I'm a mastermind in the ways of espionage...

[EasyAce]

Trump may or may not appoint hard-line constitutionalists, but at least we will have some leverage over him.

Daring to dream? (Probably.)

Famous last words? (Hope not, you're a good man in a discussion.)

The Supreme Court Is Not a Sufficient Reason to Vote for Trump

[massadvj]

Daring to dream? (Probably.)

Famous last words? (Hope not, you're a good man in a discussion.)

The Supreme Court Is Not a Sufficient Reason to Vote for Trump

News reports suggested that Trump was wavering on Pence because he wanted to go with Christie.  People were able to prevail upon him and get him to do the sensible thing.  So we have some evidence that there is leverage.  He will owe Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Limbaugh, Laura Ingraham and other conservatives, and he knows this issue is the one nearest and dearest to them.

I am still not committed to voting for Trump.  But it seems to me we should try to be objective in assessing the pluses and minuses.

As for the conservative movement, I believe there is really no hope for a truly conservative America.  Between welfare, food stamps, unemployment, military pensions, Social Security and Medicare, public employees and government-dependent corporations, the majority of people are too wedded to the monster to want to dismantle it.

[Jazzhead]

Many good conservatives are resigned to "settling" for Trump. And to be sure, Trump is  the worst Pubbie candidate to settle for I've ever seen.
Many  Trumpists make the false claim that we have to vote for Trump because they voted/settled  for "our" candidates i.e. McCain and Romney. It's false because many conservatives settled for those two like they will for Trump. But I'll easily take both those two moderate Republicans over someone like Trump who only recently discovered "conservatism."
Actually, Trump doesn't even pretend to be or have turned into a conservative. He is what he is....a conman who got in front of an issue dear to conservatives (illegal immigration) and rode it all the way to the Republican presidential nomination.
I might yet cast my vote for Trump holding my nose all the way in and out of the voting booth. Then scrub myself off with lye when I get home.
But you raise a very good question....will voting for Trump delay the march of leftism until a better candidate can be found in four or eight years, or will a Trump presidency kill off the conservative movement forever or at least long enough to ensure the complete takeover by the leftists?
I'll admit to being undecided about that question. As much as I loathe Trump, I loathe Hillary Clinton more. Which danger could the country withstand better? I don't know.

Well put,  goatprairie.  Many conservatives will, I'm sure, "settle" for Trump on the ground that the alternative is worse.  But it's hardly obvious that Clinton is worse - especially when the future of the conservative movement is on the line.   We can survive four years if we can escape with our reputations intact.   Others will conclude that Trump and Clinton are both evil and will refuse on the basis of conscience not to enable evil.

I've been assuming for some time now that Trump cannot win the general election, and under such circumstances the best course of action by conservatives is to help him lose in a landslide so as to allow us to salvage our reputations and live to fight another day.   A clear repudiation helps us down the road far more than a narrow defeat, where we all get tarred with the alt-right's racialism.

A final point which goes without saying,  but I'll say it again.   It's absolutely critical that all conservatives vote down-ballot for Republican Congressional candidates so Clinton's agenda can be confronted and opposed.   That's especially true of the Senate, which can block her judicial appointments.       

[TomSea]

If Hillary is able to appoint replacements for Scalia and Thomas (who recently indicated he is ready to retire) the Supreme Court will be lost for at least a generation, probably more.  To me, that means Hillary does more damage to conservatism than Trump.  Trump may or may not appoint hard-line constitutionalists, but at least we will have some leverage over him.

Trump's a million times better obviously, anti-sanctuary cities, secure border, stop heroin that is killing American every day.

If people can not see that, there's not much that can be said.

Libya is a big mess and ISIS has its fingerprints all over it; thanks to Obama and Clinton, a war they got us into. ISIS became a power under those two.

It's pretty obvious who the better pick is and I don't have to resort to talk on supreme court nominees.

[HonestJohn]

Yes, it sucks to be us, but I'd still rather hold my head high and say we did the right thing.  Racialism is poison, it polarizes us as a nation and mocks "the American values that unite us".

[Cyber Liberty]

I don't like this whole "Alt-Right" terminology.  We're being set up by the leftists again, I can feel it.  It's like being painted with the Nazi label, even though the Nazis were socialists.

[Sanguine]

@Wingnut 's been "borrowing" lyrics from songs again... 

Yeah, and I got the song wrong.  I was thinking of "Redneck Mother" and even so I got the lyrics wrong.   

[Sanguine]

I don't like this whole "Alt-Right" terminology.  We're being set up by the leftists again, I can feel it.  It's like being painted with the Nazi label, even though the Nazis were socialists.

I agree.  It does feel very much like a set-up.

[Cripplecreek]

I agree.  It does feel very much like a set-up.

But the alt right does exist and denials or refusals to denounce them plays right into the hands of the media.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW8JjaYBVLc

[Cyber Liberty]

Yeah, and I got the song wrong.  I was thinking of "Redneck Mother" and even so I got the lyrics wrong.   

"Uneasy Rider" by Charlie Daniels.  A great tune!

[Cyber Liberty]

But the alt right does exist and denials or refusals to denounce them plays right into the hands of the media.

Allowing the neo-cons in the media to define the term also plays into their hands, which is exactly what Jonah's doing.

[Cripplecreek]

Allowing the neo-cons in the media to define the term also plays into their hands, which is exactly what Jonah's doing.

Its how they define themselves. I get daily threats from the alt right scum.

Blaming the media is a cop out.

[endicom]

I get daily threats from the alt right scum.

Where?