Author Topic: The Never-Trump bozos  (Read 15732 times)

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geronl

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Re: The Never-Trump bozos
« Reply #150 on: August 25, 2016, 08:26:54 am »
First, I never wanted Trump during the primaries.   If Hillary is our President what alternative do we have.  We will Never get rid of her or her policies.  We may have voted for the last time.  the DEMs are trying everything they can to keep in power forever!  Yes, I think I would rater impeach Trump than deal with Hillary. :beer:

Trump will not be impeached. He is malleable and will negotiate everything from his liberal side and give the Democrats and RINO's what they want.

Offline musiclady

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Re: The Never-Trump bozos
« Reply #151 on: August 25, 2016, 01:41:15 pm »
First, I never wanted Trump during the primaries.   If Hillary is our President what alternative do we have.  We will Never get rid of her or her policies.  We may have voted for the last time.  the DEMs are trying everything they can to keep in power forever!  Yes, I think I would rater impeach Trump than deal with Hillary. :beer:

There are other options than voting for either of two candidates you want to be impeached.

I'm sorry, but in a rational world, what sense does it make to vote for I guy so awful that you think he should be impeached?

IMO, that's an absurd rationalization.

There ARE other alternatives on the ballot, you know.   You don't have to vote for someone you despise, who you know will be horrible for the country.

In fact, I think it's irresponsible to do so.
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Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline goatprairie

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Re: The Never-Trump bozos
« Reply #152 on: August 27, 2016, 12:17:11 am »
I have very often wondered what kind of world we would be living in now had Barry Goldwater been elected president in 1964.  How would we have survived without LBJ's "Great Society"?
At that time I was too young to vote. But the mood of  the country was pretty liberal. Many people thought social problems could be solved by throwing money at them.
And the kind of conservatism demonstrated by Buckley and Goldwater was a pretty new concept to many Americans used to having both parties and pols  a lot closer in their aims and policies. In those days many Dems were pretty hawkish and opposed to the spread of communism. Social issues like abortion, homo and women's rights were not up for discussion..
The only big social issue was civil rights for blacks, and both parties had steered in that direction.
Goldwater's principled stand on the issue cost him millions of votes.  He later regretted his stand, but he did it on principle and not because he was a racist...which he wasn't.
Again, many Americans thought we could solve all social problems with enough money. As events have turned out,  much of the social legislation passed turned out to be disastrous.
As president could Goldwater have prevented a lot of the bad legislation. The social legislation he could have impeded. 
But many Pubbie pols supported the 1964 Civil Rights act...more than the Dems who still had many hardcore senatorial segregationists.
So while Goldwater would have been easily better than Johnson, I don't know if he could have stopped all the bad legislation passed during that time.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 12:19:00 am by goatprairie »

Online Bigun

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Re: The Never-Trump bozos
« Reply #153 on: August 27, 2016, 12:42:16 am »
At that time I was too young to vote. But the mood of  the country was pretty liberal. Many people thought social problems could be solved by throwing money at them.
And the kind of conservatism demonstrated by Buckley and Goldwater was a pretty new concept to many Americans used to having both parties and pols  a lot closer in their aims and policies. In those days many Dems were pretty hawkish and opposed to the spread of communism. Social issues like abortion, homo and women's rights were not up for discussion..
The only big social issue was civil rights for blacks, and both parties had steered in that direction.
Goldwater's principled stand on the issue cost him millions of votes.  He later regretted his stand, but he did it on principle and not because he was a racist...which he wasn't.
Again, many Americans thought we could solve all social problems with enough money. As events have turned out,  much of the social legislation passed turned out to be disastrous.
As president could Goldwater have prevented a lot of the bad legislation. The social legislation he could have impeded. 
But many Pubbie pols supported the 1964 Civil Rights act...more than the Dems who still had many hardcore senatorial segregationists.
So while Goldwater would have been easily better than Johnson, I don't know if he could have stopped all the bad legislation passed during that time.

All true! And although he may not have been able to stop all of it it is likely that he would have been able to stop enough of it to have made a REAL difference!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline EasyAce

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Re: The Never-Trump bozos
« Reply #154 on: August 27, 2016, 02:34:24 am »
Goldwater's principled stand on the [Civil Rights Act] cost him millions of votes.  He later regretted his stand, but he did it on principle and not because he was a racist...which he wasn't.

Goldwater---who'd voted for every previous piece of civil rights legislation during his early years in the Senate (and on the Phoenix
City Council when he served prior to his first Senate term)---had objected to two portions of the 1964 Civil Rights Act on constitutional
grounds. But because Senate rules of the time said otherwise, he could only vote for or against the entire package, not reject those two
portions and agree to the others.

So while Goldwater would have been easily better than Johnson, I don't know if he could have stopped all the bad legislation passed during that time.

He might not have stopped some of that legislation, but had he been elected president Goldwater might well have vetoed what
he didn't approve of and thrown the gauntlet down to Congress to both explain why they sent him unconstitutional legislation in the
first place and to override his veto. We'll never know for certain, of course, but he had said previously, publicly, and personally, I think
it was in The Conscience of a Conservative . . .

I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to
promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs,
but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution, or that have failed their purpose, or that impose on the people an unwarranted
financial burden. I will not attempt to discover whether legislation is "needed" before I have first determined whether it is constitutionally
permissible. And if I should later be attacked for neglecting my constituents' "interests," I shall reply that I was informed that their main
interest is liberty and that in that cause I am doing the very best I can.


From his speech at the convention that nominated him:

We must assure a society here which, while never abandoning the needy or forsaking the helpless, nurtures incentives and opportunity
for the creative and the productive. We must know the whole good is the product of many single contributions.

I cherish a day when our children once again will restore as heroes the sort of men and women who - unafraid and undaunted - pursue the
truth, strive to cure disease, subdue and make fruitful our natural environment and produce the inventive engines of production, science,
and technology.

This nation, whose creative people have enhanced this entire span of history, should again thrive upon the greatness of all those things
which we, as individual citizens, can and should do. During Republican years, this again will be a nation of men and women, of families
proud of their role, jealous of their responsibilities, unlimited in their aspirations - a nation where all who can will be self-reliant.

We Republicans see in our constitutional form of government the great framework which assures the orderly but dynamic fulfillment of the
whole man, and we see the whole man as the great reason for instituting orderly government in the first place.

We see, in private property and in economy based upon and fostering private property, the one way to make government a durable ally
of the whole man, rather than his determined enemy. We see in the sanctity of private property the only durable foundation for constitutional
government in a free society. And beyond that, we see, in cherished diversity of ways, diversity of thoughts, of motives and accomplishments.
We do not seek to lead anyone's life for him - we seek only to secure his rights and to guarantee him opportunity to strive, with
government performing only those needed and constitutionally sanctioned tasks which cannot otherwise be performed.

(Emphasis added.)

I suspect you can glean from remarks such as those quoted that a President Goldwater would, indeed, have vetoed any legislation that
in fact did violence to the Constitution and/or would have extended the government's tentacles into places to where they did not legitimately
belong.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2016, 02:35:55 am by EasyAce »


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